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God and Carl Sagan

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
We can draw 3-D images on a 2-D plane using highlights and shadowing. Below these simple shapes look 3-D to the eyes, but they are actuality 2-D, with an illusion of 3-D. Touch your computer screen to prove it to yourself. God is more genuine 3-D like a ball that your can touch with your hand and feel in 3-D. The extra z-axis is connected to feelings; intuition and faith. The eyes can be fooled by 3-D illusions in 2-D so you need another inner sense to perceive the z-axis.


SEOBFSMSMATCON317_01%402x-300x183.png



There is also what I call the spatial illusion which is when 3-D is drawn on 2-D to create affects that cannot exist in the 3-D world, but can still fool the eyes. One such drawing is Relativity by the artist Escher. Each man in the painting looks like he is part of a valid reference, but taken together they all cannot exist at the same time. Politics is a good example of this relative reference illusion. The 2-D brain is easier to confuse by this illusion since it assumes 3-D. However, one has clearer insight if you can practice real 3-D with God type symbolism.

c46716ba9caa46359de98034e4d01122.jpeg
Nobody is going to be fooled by looking at a 2D image and thinking it's actually 3D just because it's drawn to look 3D.
 

Dao Hao Now

Active Member
Hopefully this helps some of you gain a more accurate conception of what we're discussing when we discuss God.

I said his analogies would work well for explaining how we perceive God.

The point of the analogy was simply that what we perceive of God's existence or nature is only a shadow of his true existence or nature, because of the limits of our perception.
Who precisely is the “we” you continuously refer to?

Is it not “your” perception of God that is actually being portrayed here?

From what source have you come to the perception of God that you are asserting?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Too often, atheists try to argue against God by appealing to the rules of our own dimension, but this is as misguided as the square trying to argue that the apple cannot exist.
I see the same thing, but with a difference, ie,
they argue against belief in God because it's
undetectable by the "rules of our own dimension".
This also applies to all of the other gods that
humans have invented.
 

justaguy313

Active Member
“Everything is determined…by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust—we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.”
Albert Einstein

Imam Ahmed Al-Hassan (From Him is Peace) revealed to Aba Sadiq from him is peace something extremely important about our reality. He confirmed that in fact, our reality is a virtual reality program, that it is actually not a real place but more like a computer game or program with every action and consequence programmed with thousands of possibilities. He also revealed that although it is a game or illusion, it has an architect and the result or outcome of our performance in this virtual world has consequences on our reality in the real world.

 

justaguy313

Active Member
If you consider the manifestation of Nature itself, or Spinosa view of God, maybe, but hardly represents an opinion that Einstein believed in "God."


True


As far as Einstein no Omniesent Creator.Your splitting frog hairs looking for the God of Sagan or Einstein.

Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood.[1] Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God".[2] He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.[3] He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist",[4] preferring to call himself an agnostic,[5] or a "religious nonbeliever."[3] In other interviews, he stated that he thought that there is a "lawgiver" who sets the laws of the universe.

-wikipedia
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Who precisely is the “we” you continuously refer to?

Is it not “your” perception of God that is actually being portrayed here?

From what source have you come to the perception of God that you are asserting?
You're responding to a May 8, 2020 thread.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood.[1] Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God".[2] He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.[3] He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist",[4] preferring to call himself an agnostic,[5] or a "religious nonbeliever."[3]

OK
In other interviews, he stated that he thought that there is a "lawgiver" who sets the laws of the universe.

-wikipedia
I doubt this. Need citation. Complete citation from Wiki: Albert Einstein - Wikipedia

Religious and philosophical views​


"Ladies (coughs) and gentlemen, our age is proud of the progress it has made in man's intellectual development. The search and striving for truth and knowledge is one of the highest of man's qualities ..."
Main article: Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein
Einstein expounded his spiritual outlook in a wide array of writings and interviews.[185] He said he had sympathy for the impersonal pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza's philosophy.[186] He did not believe in a personal god who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.[187] He clarified, however, that "I am not an atheist",[188] preferring to call himself an agnostic,[189][190] or a "deeply religious nonbeliever".[187] When asked if he believed in an afterlife, Einstein replied, "No. And one life is enough for me."[191]

Einstein was primarily affiliated with non-religious humanist and Ethical Culture groups in both the UK and US. He served on the advisory board of the First Humanist Society of New York,[192] and was an honorary associate of the Rationalist Association, which publishes New Humanist in Britain. For the 75th anniversary of the New York Society for Ethical Culture, he stated that the idea of Ethical Culture embodied his personal conception of what is most valuable and enduring in religious idealism. He observed, "Without 'ethical culture' there is no salvation for humanity."[193]

In a German-language letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, dated 3 January 1954, Einstein wrote:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. ... For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. ... I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.[194]
Einstein had been sympathetic toward vegetarianism for a long time. In a letter in 1930 to Hermann Huth, vice-president of the German Vegetarian Federation (Deutsche Vegetarier-Bund), he wrote:

Although I have been prevented by outward circumstances from observing a strictly vegetarian diet, I have long been an adherent to the cause in principle. Besides agreeing with the aims of vegetarianism for aesthetic and moral reasons, it is my view that a vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.[195]
He became a vegetarian himself only during the last part of his life. In March 1954 he wrote in a letter: "So I am living without fats, without meat, without fish, but am feeling quite well this way. It almost seems to me that man was not born to be a carnivore."[196]


He believed in a humanist ethical culture not a Divine Lawgiver. See bold.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Last edited:

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and often misunderstood.[1] Albert Einstein stated "I believe in Spinoza's God".[2] He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naïve.[3] He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist",[4] preferring to call himself an agnostic,[5] or a "religious nonbeliever."[3] In other interviews, he stated that he thought that there is a "lawgiver" who sets the laws of the universe.

-wikipedia

In his own day, Spinoza was branded a heretic and accused of trivialising God’s role in the universe and human affairs. Cast out of the Dutch Jewish community at the age of 23 for spouting “horrible heresies,” he opted for permanent outsider status by refusing to convert to Christianity. He disputed the existence of miracles and the afterlife and challenged the authority of the Bible. His Theologico-Political Treatise was condemned as “a book forged in hell… by the devil himself.” The Ethics was placed on the Catholic Church’s index of forbidden books.

Link

And it shall come to pass at that time, [that] I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, YHWH will not do good, neither will he do evil.
Zephaniah 1:12
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Link

And it shall come to pass at that time, [that] I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, YHWH will not do good, neither will he do evil.
Zephaniah 1:12
Spinoza was a light in a world dominated by ancient tribal religious myths.
 

justaguy313

Active Member
The ancient tribal religions make an attempt to predict future events based on their myths.

Hear the word of the LORD, you Israelites, because the LORD has a charge to bring against you who live in the land: “There is no faithfulness, no love, no acknowledgment of God in the land.
There is only cursing, lying and murder, stealing and adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed.
Because of this the land dries up, and all who live in it waste away; the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea are swept away.
-Hosea 4:1-3

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7322117361358605601
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Hear the word of the LORD, you Israelites, because the LORD has a charge to bring against you who live in the land: “There is no faithfulness, no love, no acknowledgment of God in the land.
There is only cursing, lying and murder, stealing and adultery; they break all bounds, and bloodshed follows bloodshed.
Because of this the land dries up, and all who live in it waste away; the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea are swept away.
-Hosea 4:1-3

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7322117361358605601
This is. of course, what you believe from the perspective of an ancient religious world view.
 
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