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God and Evil, working towards a solution

God and Evil, working towards a solution

As part of a class I'm taking, I'm working towards an argument to show that it is rational to believe in God. But before I get to that point, I'm looking at what is probably the biggest stumbling block, which is the question of theodicy; why does evil exist if God is all loving and all powerful.

I'm linking to a podcast episode (and article) that goes more in depth about this all, but to sum it up, there are two main reasons why suffering exists with a God who is all loving.

First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

Second, humans are also limited. We aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. We also have free will, which allows us to make horrible decisions that end up having long lasting impacts.

The link goes much deeper into this, but the suggestion that I'm getting at is that God limits Himself, so we can be what we are created to be. We have power ourselves, and because of that, God expects us to step up and and fight against oppression, and towards justice. In other words, God works through us.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
God and Evil, working towards a solution

As part of a class I'm taking, I'm working towards an argument to show that it is rational to believe in God. But before I get to that point, I'm looking at what is probably the biggest stumbling block, which is the question of theodicy; why does evil exist if God is all loving and all powerful.

I'm linking to a podcast episode (and article) that goes more in depth about this all, but to sum it up, there are two main reasons why suffering exists with a God who is all loving.

First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

Second, humans are also limited. We aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. We also have free will, which allows us to make horrible decisions that end up having long lasting impacts.

The link goes much deeper into this, but the suggestion that I'm getting at is that God limits Himself, so we can be what we are created to be. We have power ourselves, and because of that, God expects us to step up and and fight against oppression, and towards justice. In other words, God works through us.

There is no true "growth" without "resistance".....and the growth is in the "overcoming".
which necessitates something to "overcome"...
That "something to overcome" would create "adversity"..
That "adversity" would require an "Adversary" (satan)

ALL for our own good
 
There is no true "growth" without "resistance".....and the growth is in the "overcoming".
which necessitates something to "overcome"...
That "something to overcome" would create "adversity"..
That "adversity" would require an "Adversary" (satan)

ALL for our own good
I don't think so. Satan or an adversary isn't needed. We can overcome adversity that we create.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
God and Evil, working towards a solution

As part of a class I'm taking, I'm working towards an argument to show that it is rational to believe in God. But before I get to that point, I'm looking at what is probably the biggest stumbling block, which is the question of theodicy; why does evil exist if God is all loving and all powerful.

I'm linking to a podcast episode (and article) that goes more in depth about this all, but to sum it up, there are two main reasons why suffering exists with a God who is all loving.

First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

Second, humans are also limited. We aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. We also have free will, which allows us to make horrible decisions that end up having long lasting impacts.

The link goes much deeper into this, but the suggestion that I'm getting at is that God limits Himself, so we can be what we are created to be. We have power ourselves, and because of that, God expects us to step up and and fight against oppression, and towards justice. In other words, God works through us.

What a human should impose rationally about self presence.

First he says is the Garden Nature body/world....does not talk.
Second he says is the Animal Nature body/world...does not talk.
Then the male the Third human world...does talk and claims he discusses information on behalf of it all existing.

Named by self as being male egotism, and the self destructive Nature of his own human self.

Reason, he invented science, the human ability to attack natural history and forcibly convert it by what he claims is the evil body....the rebelled angel, the Sun.

For a Sun in science cosmological O God statements, being science O mass and O maths, circular bodies/ mass presence as the highest held forms of bodies in one place, its ORIGIN.

What God stories in the creative themes is about.

Now if a human was spiritually just a self and knew self was supported on a O planet by the Nature, of animals and the Garden, then there is no God to talk about.

Just self presence, human and natural life.

Yet he claims that a body existed before his own speaking to him to tell him the information of his own formation. How he was created.

So he claims that the use of worded information known to his mind as SCIENCE is how God explained how he existed.

Making God in his psyche a spiritual being who wanted to explain to a human why he created them.....to then also claim in the same story that he disliked what he created so he would destroy them.

Which makes the reading of the documents/stories about God as posing a contradiction to spirituality.

Reason…..a human being living owns their own self taught concepts about being spiritual. Do no harm or the least amount of harm...seeing we eat animals and harm them, the same for the vegetation.....to life. And do not harm to self or to any other human self.

And God is meant to be more spiritual a spiritual being than what we are.

So you would ask self, how and why would a God say that we deserved to be harmed?

The answer would be, a human being male in science owns all of those self taught inferences, for SCIENCE is the known destroyer of natural history.

To then say, so why did males teach that we are made in the image of God, and why did they say that God sacrificed the first male spiritual self?

To understand the concepts of the Heavenly gas mass....that the radiation/radio wave causes, to react/reaction and end reaction forms an image/vision...it gets recorded.

Therefore as speaking is only owned rationally by a living human being owning the ability to speak in self presence, you would also then rationalize, if I created an atmospheric heavenly gas spirit reaction by SCIENCE, as a human choice, I would get recorded by self image, in God change conditions and also be recorded speaking. A reaction. How recording, or saving of the image is caused....atmospheric reactive changes.

Which is proven to be factual and actual. And that REACTIVE condition exists historically before any life does. And we are informed consciously by communication conditions in self awareness.

Reactive Earth history is how visions/recordings of the reactions were given to the male human science researcher......beginning and end reaction.

And it is proven that males in science as the speaking voice, who applied human applied studies and themes to everything that he personally was not and did not own, is that reason.

And be correct and actual and not lie to self.....knowing that a higher spiritual human being did it to their own person, by their own choice.....rationally. Human original males, a higher life than what we own today....a lower life converted by radiation events.

Then you would ask self, why is it that so many humans believe that when their physical body as a human dies that they are still owner of a spirit body. As a far higher spiritual being not owning a description by human thinking?

And that word and reference is the ETERNAL...a one worded described human story about where the Nature and self human came from. As a pre formed and pre owned spiritual body.

Only after the heavenly gases released out of God the stone O philosophy body, had filled back the space where natural eternal once existed. As a natural eternal mass, and not the burned conjured God O angel bodies that fell as space opened.

So the story should claim, ETERNAL created the presence and fall of the bodies named by a human scientist as GOD O. As space did not previously exist, it was forced into presence by O God taking the eternal into the presence of created O God...by a spiritual being.

Where we say we all came from and still own a portion of that spirit self when we die as the inheritors of the spiritual choice to change our higher natural body, the ETERNAL spiritual self.

What the human argument has always been about, why did males invent science as a higher spiritually aware male group, in the knowledge that creation and the stories about God O were about the fall and destruction of the bodies of angels O that he said was God O itself. O cooling the higher state in creation as a history, evolution allowed God O to exist. As the known created higher state.

Makes no rational human sense historically to have invented SCIENCE.

To which no human as a bio self owned as a history of bodies in creation.

We came over from the eternal only after the gases had filled back in space...and those gases/spirit body belonged to O God the angel...body of O Earth the stone angel in Hell....the spatial cause. The body that released the gas/spirit into space and a male inferred/described and rationalized that statement to his natural human bio life. Called O God a male and said the volcano or law of mountain spewed forth the spirit into the womb of space.

That cooled into an Immaculate new gas spirit body....by natural history. How it was human male scientifically explained.

Therefore a human being would say.....as eternal once existed in whole body....and burnt/lost and then cooled a portion of its own pre existing spirit, then it was missing a higher presence of itself.

Why its own spirit then re released more of its eternal spirit to inherit the living created spirit, life on Earth.....and our bodies own the other portion of what eternal should be, not burnt.

How and why humans in conscious reality talked about life on Earth being our spiritual karma. For it is not sensible to claim that bodies that owned their own presence, ENDS in self presence evolved beyond what their own bodies ended as.....each presence we discuss.

Space itself defines that a portion of what once used to exist is gone/removed and only burning could have achieved that result....removal.

O Earth is a planet and it is reactive itself as that natural body.

Cause and effect is the correct term, God is not evil by intent.

Science however taking natural history and converting it by forces and increasing burning is the only evil act......why humans in the sciences were named as Satanists, believers of burning.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
We see the bipolar good and evil through a human lens. And further, what was considered good and evil can swap in different times and places.

And in today's world many adopt a viewpoint of good and evil and others adopt the opposite viewpoint.

So a third option is to consider that our human perception of good vs evil is limiting and to consider that a Divine purpose might be for humans to learn by experiencing the opposites.

People fall off horses, break bones and then after healing climb back on a horse. Maybe evil is nothing more than the fall and the broken bones to a Divine perspective. And good is finally learning to ride.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
We see the bipolar good and evil through a human lens. And further, what was considered good and evil can swap in different times and places.

And in today's world many adopt a viewpoint of good and evil and others adopt the opposite viewpoint.

So a third option is to consider that our human perception of good vs evil is limiting and to consider that a Divine purpose might be for humans to learn by experiencing the opposites.

People fall off horses, break bones and then after healing climb back on a horse. Maybe evil is nothing more than the fall and the broken bones to a Divine perspective. And good is finally learning to ride.

My friend and I ride horses, and own horses.

Good and evil own no common place to do any swapping.

And only Satanists own in human life the ability to make threats as a Sophist intent.
 

Iymus

Active Member
why does evil exist if God is all loving and all powerful.

what is evil?

First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

limited may not be the best word. Perhaps Faithful and Merciful.

Perhaps expects us to seek his will to have a relationship with him and fellow man.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
what is evil?



limited may not be the best word. Perhaps Faithful and Merciful.

Perhaps expects us to seek his will to have a relationship with him and fellow man.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Pro 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

As a spiritual human self, a self applied research into what I was taught was a truth about a human. Being a spiritual self. That was not of religious, meaning creation/science motivation....as themes.

I learnt about the recorded image of the original adult human being male who said that he was self sacrificed spiritually by the invention of his own destruction SCIENCE....or Satanism.

Knew that natural God history supported his self male human existence...and chose as that spiritual higher self to alter God...….due to one fact. He did not belong with God...and came out of the eternal spirit...and wanted to return to it.

If you get forcibly removed out of a higher body....it is because a lower body caused change.

Which was the heavenly spirit formation/gases that filled back in emptied out space.

If that historic spatial condition did not occur, we would not be living and looking at the state Creation and causation.

The only way that a human forced to exist where it knew it never belonged to change that condition was to create it their own self. If you rationalized the history and meaning of why science was invented on the Sun METAL UFO mass converting/attacking the body planet O of Earth stone.

As a known scientific history. For what reason would you want to own a copying of that event, unless your male self motivation was to remove self from being forced to live on God O planet Earth.

Why do you think the stories of Satanism, science was taught for......some other reason?

Therefore when I posed a question to my self reflection, feed back and the in the image of, life recording by atmospheric spiritual history....of course I heard a speaking voice of the Father of the invention of the sciences. Recorded as that higher spiritually aware self human advice.

And I certainly got to know and understand him simply as a non scientist....yet was informed of a lot of scientific advice.

Father told me that the original form of his water based oxygen and microbial use of a higher spiritual lived life.....half was removed from his life male ownership.

And it went into the heavenly cloud amassing reaction.

As the eternal had sent his spirit out of its body, it still communicates actually to his body in the heavenly cloud mass. So the images can talk spiritually to us as if they are a non living bio life form....just because of natural history.

How it was spiritually explained to me.

And as I have endured both the spiritual love of that spirit circumstance and also been abused scientifically and burnt/irradiated harmed. I know what I am talking about, unlike egotistical self superior lying male groups, who in their owned elitism and self status were never spiritual at all.
 
Good, remind yourself of those words if and when a tornado wipes out everything you own,
or maybe an earthquake perhaps.
I don't create earthquakes or tornadoes, so your argument is illogical. More so, if you listen to the podcast, or the article I linked to, I do talk about natural evil, which is different from moral evil. You're talking about natural evil, which is part of a chaotic world in which God created.
 

WhyIsThatSo

Well-Known Member
I don't create earthquakes or tornadoes, so your argument is illogical. More so, if you listen to the podcast, or the article I linked to, I do talk about natural evil, which is different from moral evil. You're talking about natural evil, which is part of a chaotic world in which God created.

Yes, we don't create most of the "adversity" we face in our lives......especially "acts of God ".
and a little secret.....there is no such thing as "evil", it does not exist,
NOT in the sense that you understand it anyway.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I don't create earthquakes or tornadoes, so your argument is illogical. More so, if you listen to the podcast, or the article I linked to, I do talk about natural evil, which is different from moral evil. You're talking about natural evil, which is part of a chaotic world in which God created.

Who says that an atmospheric condition is evil?

A human harmed by it says it.

In the cosmological history every circumstance is natural causation and reactive because it is natural and reactive.

Therefore if a human lives on the Planet of God O and says to self natural disasters already exist and natural in the states natural …..meaning historically. Cold deep empty space, hot irradiated space, cold Earth gases from out of stone and incoming Sun metal radiation burning is the cause of change then it is.

Science talks about natural bodies but science never owned what it talks about.

Science only builds it own machine and reacts that machine....yet it constantly claims as a human that it is talking on behalf of natural reactions in huge massive bodies....and lies to self.

Moral evil. I am a human. 2 human parents had sex and created my baby life. They supported my baby growing into a self and adult. My extended family other humans, also are born by 2 human parents. Seeing all of humanity cannot be born from just 2 parent selves.....it is mass multiplied or replicated.

What consciousness says. So in moral and ethical human reasoning our family is our family. We live as a human on a reactive planet so we try to support our human family in those conditions, morality.

Evil, when a human chooses to go against the family unity of humanity.

And science is that statement. To change the natural planetary conditions for their own groups.

Hence science was then human advised to be evil human choice for it was witnessed causing the attacks on the natural humanity by increased radiation conditions, which is named as replicators in radiation communicators.

And hence a male who implies information in UNHOLY word usage, would infer that replicators in science is why human beings are living....and lied. Why the ONE WORD, a Holy word was given the entitled expression in natural life. And changes to the use ONE word meaning only, was part of human evil Satanic immorality.

Why the state science and Sophism is said to be an evil contrivance of the use of words.
 
Yeah, the solution is just to dump dualism. Problem solved.
How does that solve anything? I'm not coming from a dualistic point of view.

Yes, we don't create most of the "adversity" we face in our lives......especially "acts of God ".
and a little secret.....there is no such thing as "evil", it does not exist,
NOT in the sense that you understand it anyway.

This really isn't an argument. In the podcast, I go much more in depth about this, but we can use the example of throwing babies into a fire. That is near universally accepted as being evil. Thus we can say it is evil as it fits the definition of the word as most people see it. That is defining it quite liberally, but it gets to the point.


Who says that an atmospheric condition is evil?

A human harmed by it says it.

In the cosmological history every circumstance is natural causation and reactive because it is natural and reactive.

Therefore if a human lives on the Planet of God O and says to self natural disasters already exist and natural in the states natural …..meaning historically. Cold deep empty space, hot irradiated space, cold Earth gases from out of stone and incoming Sun metal radiation burning is the cause of change then it is.

Science talks about natural bodies but science never owned what it talks about.

Science only builds it own machine and reacts that machine....yet it constantly claims as a human that it is talking on behalf of natural reactions in huge massive bodies....and lies to self.

Moral evil. I am a human. 2 human parents had sex and created my baby life. They supported my baby growing into a self and adult. My extended family other humans, also are born by 2 human parents. Seeing all of humanity cannot be born from just 2 parent selves.....it is mass multiplied or replicated.

What consciousness says. So in moral and ethical human reasoning our family is our family. We live as a human on a reactive planet so we try to support our human family in those conditions, morality.

Evil, when a human chooses to go against the family unity of humanity.

And science is that statement. To change the natural planetary conditions for their own groups.

Hence science was then human advised to be evil human choice for it was witnessed causing the attacks on the natural humanity by increased radiation conditions, which is named as replicators in radiation communicators.

And hence a male who implies information in UNHOLY word usage, would infer that replicators in science is why human beings are living....and lied. Why the ONE WORD, a Holy word was given the entitled expression in natural life. And changes to the use ONE word meaning only, was part of human evil Satanic immorality.

Why the state science and Sophism is said to be an evil contrivance of the use of words.
Humans consider some atmospheric conditions evil. Humans define what evil is for them.

Science really doesn't come into the mix here as science can't tell us what is evil, what is moral, or anything like that.
 
Is evidence or lack of evidence
But that isn't a stumbling block for most believers. Faith can overcome lack of evidence. That really isn't a problem. Suffering though does make many with faith question if faith is justifiable. That is why there was such a theological change after the Holocaust.
Isaiah 45:7
That doesn't explain why evil exists though, just how.
Not according to the Bible or reality.
Which is actually my argument.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
But that isn't a stumbling block for most believers. Faith can overcome lack of evidence. That really isn't a problem. Suffering though does make many with faith question if faith is justifiable. That is why there was such a theological change after the Holocaust.

Interesting, i would think lack of evidence is the greatest stumbling block. With suffering the icing on the cake. You have opened my eyes, thanks

That doesn't explain why evil exists though, just how.

The why is the abrahamic god decreed it. The faithful don't argue with their gods edicts... Do they?

Which is actually my argument.

Ok
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
God and Evil, working towards a solution

As part of a class I'm taking, I'm working towards an argument to show that it is rational to believe in God. But before I get to that point, I'm looking at what is probably the biggest stumbling block, which is the question of theodicy; why does evil exist if God is all loving and all powerful.

I'm linking to a podcast episode (and article) that goes more in depth about this all, but to sum it up, there are two main reasons why suffering exists with a God who is all loving.

First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

Second, humans are also limited. We aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. We also have free will, which allows us to make horrible decisions that end up having long lasting impacts.

The link goes much deeper into this, but the suggestion that I'm getting at is that God limits Himself, so we can be what we are created to be. We have power ourselves, and because of that, God expects us to step up and and fight against oppression, and towards justice. In other words, God works through us.
Good is never going to overcome evil and vice versa.

I think what's important is balance or probably more accurately equilibrium whether you believe in God or not. The stability one finds between two vast forces of nature.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
First, God is limited. God limits Godself in order for humans to be humans, and to have some sort of power. It also allows God to be in a relationship with humans.

Second, humans are also limited. We aren't perfect, and we make mistakes. We also have free will, which allows us to make horrible decisions that end up having long lasting impacts.

The link goes much deeper into this, but the suggestion that I'm getting at is that God limits Himself
Really!, He certainly hasn't put any limits on his immoral behavior; endorsing slavery, (Leviticus 25:44-46) and even beating slaves ( Luke 12:47). inciting the killing
of anyone who has sexual relations with an engaged virgin (Deuteronomy 22:23-24). Exhorting people to kill those who curse their mother or father (Exodus 21:17), and even killing children who jeer their elders ( 2 Kings 2:23-24).

so we can be what we are created to be.
Then obviously we were created to rape, pillage, and kill, because, among other things, that's what we do.

We have power ourselves, and because of that, God expects us to step up and and fight against oppression, and towards justice.

So god expects we mere mortals to have better ethics than himself. To tell the truth, in many respects we do. I don't know a single soul who endorses slavery. or would suggest that children be punished for the misdeeds of their parents.

.
 
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