God and Fatherland

[Estro Felino]

Christians only, please Thank you

As a Christian, I believe that Jesus gave us a Fatherland. Which is the expression of who we are. Of who we are also, in our veins.
Before God we are called to contribute to the economic, social and cultural progress of our Fatherland. To act on its behalf. Pursuing its common interests.

Also politicians, who are the first servants of the people have the huge responsability to pursue the public interest. The Fatherland's public interests. Not other countries' interests. Not just the wealthy elites' interests.

I do believe that God in the Afterlife will judge politicians. On how they served the Fatherland they were supposed to serve.

What do you guys think?

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think I wouldn’t like to be a politician.

And also, that most of the people who would like to be a politician, probably shouldn’t be one.

 

[exchemist]

Christians only, please Thank you

As a Christian, I believe that Jesus gave us a Fatherland. Which is the expression of who we are. Of who we are also, in our veins.
Before God we are called to contribute to the economic, social and cultural progress of our Fatherland. To act on its behalf. Pursuing its common interests.

Also politicians, who are the first servants of the people have the huge responsability to pursue the public interest. The Fatherland's public interests. Not other countries' interests. Not just the wealthy elites' interests.

I do believe that God in the Afterlife will judge politicians. On how they served the Fatherland they were supposed to serve.

What do you guys think?

I think the concept of "Fatherland" is nothing to do with Christianity and furthermore that it has hideous overtones, to anyone growing up in Europe since 1940.

Heil Hitler, I mean, Good Evening.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think the concept of "Fatherland" is nothing to do with Christianity and furthermore that it has hideous overtones, to anyone growing up in Europe since 1940.

Heil Hitler, I mean, Good Evening.

I understand.
When I see the People, I see God's People.
If this People is not organized in a State, Hobbesian and Kantian notion, there will be nothing but anarchy and turmoil.
The State is supposed to represent God on Earth. For God wants everyone to be happy. Not just a few.
So...if I am loyal to the State (meaning I am loyal to the common good, or public interest), I am loyal to God.

 

[Lain]

Christians only, please Thank you

As a Christian, I believe that Jesus gave us a Fatherland. Which is the expression of who we are. Of who we are also, in our veins.
Before God we are called to contribute to the economic, social and cultural progress of our Fatherland. To act on its behalf. Pursuing its common interests.

Also politicians, who are the first servants of the people have the huge responsability to pursue the public interest. The Fatherland's public interests. Not other countries' interests. Not just the wealthy elites' interests.

I do believe that God in the Afterlife will judge politicians. On how they served the Fatherland they were supposed to serve.

What do you guys think?

I agree and many passages of Scripture exhort the rulers of the Earth to act justly (that is according to God's justice). My whole idea of politics actually is that the state is there to help people become good so that they can achieve their final end which is God.

 

[Brinne]

No, I think any form of nationalism is expressly against the Christian worldview.

Firstly we share a brotherhood of faith; not blood or nationality. We are all united in Christ and our kinship with all of God's people is emphasized first and foremost.

Secondly, we are called to avoid favoritism (James 2:9). If our country is pursuing an objective which harms many, but prioritizes those within its borders I would say supporting this is to the detriment of Christian values. I believe this favoritism as mentioned in the Bible would extend to favoring a citizen over a non-citizen.

This doesn't mean we can't participate in politics or anything, however. But I find it hard to justify any type of nationalism within a Christian worldview.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, I think any form of nationalism is expressly against the Christian worldview.

Firstly we share a brotherhood of faith; not blood or nationality. We are all united in Christ and our kinship with all of God's people is emphasized first and foremost.

Secondly, we are called to avoid favoritism (James 2:9). If our country is pursuing an objective which harms many, but prioritizes those within its borders I would say supporting this is to the detriment of Christian values. I believe this favoritism as mentioned in the Bible would extend to favoring a citizen over a non-citizen.

This doesn't mean we can't participate in politics or anything, however. But I find it hard to justify any type of nationalism within a Christian worldview.

Ok...let us give an example.
A Prime Minister swears to serve its own People, when he takes office.
Then the secret services of another country, or organization, bribe him to serve that country's interests.
He accepts. He gets so much money.

He uses his power to boycott his own country economically and favors the other country.
The people of the other country enormously benefit from it. At cost of the PM's country's poverty.

So...when he dies...how will God judge this PM?
When God asks him : how did you serve your own country?

 

[Brinne]

Ok...let us give an example.
A Prime Minister swears to serve its own People, when he takes office.
Then the secret services of another country, or organization, bribe him to serve that country's interests.
He accepts. He gets so much money.

He uses his power to boycott his own country economically and favors the other country.
The people of the other country enormously benefit from it. At cost of the PM's country's poverty.

So...when he dies...how will God judge this PM?
When God asks him : how did you serve you own country?

Poorly I imagine since in this scenario he's breaking an oath, and betraying others for monetary gain. But this is still a form of favoritism as well; disfavoring the people in his country to favor another.

The argument against nationalism is to treat all equally, regardless of nationality and strive for cooperative and diplomatic solutions. The nature of life on Earth does require conflict at times, however.

 

[Estro Felino]

The nature of life on Earth does require conflict at times, however.

Could you elaborate ...please?
Also, quoting the Gospel, if possible. Thank you.

 

[Brinne]

Could you elaborate ...please?
Also, quoting the Gospel, if possible. Thank you.

That conflict is unavoidable on a human-run Earth. We can do our best to emphasize diplomacy and kindness but in the current state of the world there's always going to be conflict.

 

[Estro Felino]

Simply that conflict is unavoidable on a human-run Earth. We can do our best to emphasize diplomacy and kindness but in the current state of the world there's always going to be conflict.

Conflict over resources, I suppose?
That is why people build States. To create a stable fixed list of rules (Constitution) that does anything to create social equality and economic justice.
If God is law, so are the laws of a State.

@Brinne btw this is a religious thread. So I expect people to focus on the Christian religion, not on politics.

 

[Brinne]

Conflict over resources, I suppose?
That is why people build States. To create a stable fixed list of rules (Constitution) that does anything to create social equality and economic justice.
If God is law, so are the laws of a State.

@Brinne btw this is a religious thread. So I expect people to focus of the Christian religion, not on politics.

Conflict over resources is less justifiable than say conflict to intervene in and prevent genocide; in my interpretation.

States are one thing; but nationalism is another. One can exist without the other, my main point was that nationalism in of itself is not particularly compatible with a Christian worldview - not that states themselves are un-Christian.

 

[Estro Felino]

Conflict over resources is less justifiable than say conflict to intervene in and prevent genocide; in my interpretation.

States are one thing; but nationalism is another. One can exist without the other, my main point was that nationalism in of itself is not particularly compatible with a Christian worldview - not that states themselves are un-Christian.

I am not ashamed of saying that I am loyal to my Nation, also because the members of the Government, when they take office they take an oath, which is:
"I swear to be loyal to the Republic, to respect its Constitution and the laws and to perform my duties serving the Nations's exclusive interest "

So do I. I am loyal to my Republic and I will never betray it. Because if I do, God will send me to Hell for betraying my country.

 

[exchemist]

I understand.
When I see the People, I see God's People.
If this People is not organized in a State, Hobbesian and Kantian notion, there will be nothing but anarchy and turmoil.
The State is supposed to represent God on Earth. For God wants everyone to be happy. Not just a few.
So...if I am loyal to the State (meaning I am loyal to the common good, or public interest), I am loyal to God.

I think you have just invented this idea of loyalty to the State out of nothing. Nowhere does Christianity indicate that the State represents God on Earth, so far as I can see. What teaching of Christ do you derive this from?

P.S. I must say it is ironic to find an Italian putting forward such an idea. One of the things I have always found attractive about the Italian character is its loyalty to the family and the community, rather than to any state or central authority. I know Mussolini saw that as a weakness and tried -rather ineffectually - to change it, but I rather think the Italians had the right priorities.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think you have just invented this idea of loyalty to the State out of nothing. Nowhere does Christianity indicate that the State represents God on Earth, so far as I can see. What teaching of Christ do you derive this from?

P.S. I must say it is ironic to find an Italian putting forward such an idea. One of the things I have always found attractive about the Italian character is its loyalty to the family and the community, rather than to any state or central authority. I know Mussolini saw that as a weakness and tried -rather ineffectually - to change it, but I rather think the Italians had the right priorities.

I guess I am misunderstood.
I am speaking of what a citizen is supposed to do in God's eyes to participate to the common good.

And btw...the Queen of England is the head of a Church, so I think she knows she is supposed to act on the people's behalf.
And this is a godly mandate.
A head of State is supposed to serve their own people, because God wants so.

 

[Estro Felino]

P.S. I must say it is ironic to find an Italian putting forward such an idea. One of the things I have always found attractive about the Italian character is its loyalty to the family and the community, rather than to any state or central authority.

Absolutely. There is a strong regional sentiment.
The substance does not change. Because local public entities are supposed, by law to act on people's behalf. To serve their interests.
God wants all the public labor to focus on putting the common good into action.
All that is bribery, corruption is against God.