God and Goddess: A Question of Balance

[Gentoo]

Thanks for all the replies!

What I'm curious about is why other people think the Goddess has been the focal point of mainstream Paganism. Is it a cultural phenomenon? A reaction to the overwhelming masculinity of Christianity?

I'm almost positive that it's a reaction to the overwhelming masculinity of Christianity, but I fail to see how this one god can influence all others. In other words, they're not the same, so why treat them the same? Being angry at one god is no reason to be angry at another because they happen to share a gender that humans gave them. It's the same as with people, would someone be mad at "Jeff" for something that "Nick" did? I doubt it.

But these are just my musings, take them for what they're worth.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'm almost positive that it's a reaction to the overwhelming masculinity of Christianity, but I fail to see how this one god can influence all others. In other words, they're not the same, so why treat them the same? Being angry at one god is no reason to be angry at another because they happen to share a gender that humans gave them.

I agree that perhaps gods should not be treated the same, since they do, fact, mean different things to different people. (Unless, of course, it is necessary to justify another's view of god in order to facilitate some understanding.)

But is it an anger issue with the Christian god? Perhaps, and for many I think it might be. But I wonder if the driving force is need to provide more focus and power on the feminine aspect of humanity...

 

[Gentoo]

But is it an anger issue with the Christian god? Perhaps, and for many I think it might be. But I wonder if the driving force is need to provide more focus and power on the feminine aspect of humanity...

Perhaps with a background like that of the Christian god, one would shy away from it and look elsewhere, in this case the feminine.

But I'm sorry, I can't accept that as an excuse to ignore the other, masculine side of life.

 

[Makhsihed]

The goddess is "of time" or mortal existence. As time progresses, the moon progresses through its phases. . . She represents an "eternity in time" of mortal birth and rebirth (the new vegetation growing on the decay of the old into soil).

God, in most religions, is eternity in "now," apart from time. "Now" is a moment with no beginning and no ending. He is represented in the sun.

See, this sort of assumption has always puzzled (and somewhat annoyed me) me, because there really aren't that many religions with a moon goddess/sun god dichotomy.

Egyptian myth has Aah, Khonsu, and Djehuty (Thoth), all of which are gods, associated with the moon, while the sun is associated with a myriad of Names - both male (Ra, Heru/Horus), semi-asexual (Khepera), and female (Sekhmet, Bast, Hethert/Hathor) - and I know I'm missing a few.

Japanese myth has a sun goddess, Amaterasu, and a moon god, Tsuki-Yomi.

The Sumerians had Sin/Nanna (moon god) and Nikkal (sun goddess).

Inuits have a moon god and a sun goddess.

Hinduism has Soma/Chandra (moon god/s).

The early Celts had Adsullata, Ebhir, and Grainne (all associated with the sun).

The Norse have a male moon and a female sun.

And those are only a few examples. The whole "moon is female, sun is male" association that is so common today is probably derived from Greek and mid-to-late Celtic myth, since those are the better-known mythologies (and some of the only ones besides - I think - Mayan and Chinese and a couple rare others) with moon goddesses and sun gods.

I'm just wondering if in Paganism there is any sense of God and Goddess actually being beyond gender.

It depends on what sect of Paganism you're talking about; we've got as many sects/traditions/"denominations" as Christianity does, and they're even more widely varied.

I'm Kemetic - Egyptian Pagan. The Egyptians had the concept of "Netjer" (also sometimes spelled Neter, Ntr, or Ntjr, depending on preference), the vast infinite all-pervasive All-Deity that cannot be comprehended by finite minds. Netjer is split into what some Kemetics call the Names of Netjer - very similar to the Christian idea of the Trinity. Where the Trinity is YHWH (God the Father), Jesus (God the Son), and the Holy Spirit - three in one, one in three, all distinct and separate beings who are at the same time one being - Netjer and the Netjeru (Names of Netjer) are many in one, one in many.

Each Name is very separate and individual, but it's still part of the greater whole of Netjer, and all the Names - no matter their sometimes seemingly-conflicting desires and pursuits (as in the Contendings of Heru and Set) - are subject to and follow Ma'at and the principles thereof. But I think that "each Name is very separate and individual" must still be emphasized - because to say "I can talk to / treat / behave towards Aset (Great of Heka) in the same manner as I do towards Yinepu (the Divine Child)" is disrespectful and misses the point, IMO (not to mention it'll probably hurt when Aset rips you a new one).

It's my belief (and that of a number of others) that Netjer is fissioned into the different Names in order to better relate to/communicate with humans, and each Name communicates with each person in the way that each person needs/will best understand.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Grian]

I think there is a definate understanding of deity being beyond gender. At the same time, some people do not feel the need for separation or polarity within their religion. In my opinon it is factual to say that the myth of the God/Son/Lover/Hunter can not exist outside of the myth of the Goddess while she can certainly remain without his myths. There is no evidence of a male deity unearthed with the ancient Goddess figures that have been unearthed all over Europe. The first evidence is not present until the Bronze Age. Again in my opinon, she is the source and the central figure of mysteries that can not be removed.

 

[Gentoo]

Does one really need physical, objective evidence to justify a belief? People believing something thousands of years ago doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.

 

[Grian]

You're right it doesn't. But the same could be said for any reason someone might have to believe something. I believe what I believe because my heart tells me so, not because I read it somewhere or because someone told me it was true. Why do you believe what you believe?

 

[Gentoo]

Same reason. My heart tells me that there is a balance between the two, but it's what I see in other believers that tells me there isn't.

 

[Grian]

I'm not sure what you mean by what you see in other believers.

Also, you're personal religion is one of the God. Do you find this to be imbalanced or the right fit for you?

 

[Gentoo]

I'm not sure what you mean by what you see in other believers.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that it was getting extremely frustrating to see (as I like to online window shop) mountains of things depicting the goddess and only a handful of things depicting the god. And even here on the forum, there's a board completely dedicated to Goddess worship but nothing dedicated for Pagan God worship.

Also, you're personal religion is one of the God. Do you find this to be imbalanced or the right fit for you?

Here's where my beliefs get a little complicated. I do believe firmly in two aspects of the God right now. The goddess on the other hand, I know she's there but on my end it seems that we leave each other alone. I had one experience with her very early on, which makes me believe that she is indeed in existance, but it's with the God that I feel the most connection to. It's a sort of agnosticism but not, if that makes sense.

While this can seem like an imbalance, what I believe to be the clincher is that I don't ignore the Goddess. I feel that the artisans who make the stuff depicting the Goddess is ignoring the God for whatever reason. And that says to me that they are inferring that the Goddess is somehow superior to the God when they are supposed to be equals. Does that make sense?

 

[Grian]

I know of quite a few places to find god-oriented craft items. Yes, the Goddess seems more prevalent in the craft world, but I think that has more to do with the fact that most crafters are women. Also, art across centuries has often leaned toward the female form than the male.

I think I have a good understanding of your beliefs from what you've explained. I think maybe the real imbalance has to do, not with genders, but with the ideas of light and dark. I think if one balances these two elements then the gender issue is irrelevant. I think within Wicca the ideas of light and dark are personified within the Goddess and the God.

 

[Gentoo]

I know of quite a few places to find god-oriented craft items. Yes, the Goddess seems more prevalent in the craft world, but I think that has more to do with the fact that most crafters are women. Also, art across centuries has often leaned toward the female form than the male.

While that may be true, I personally have a hard time believing that it's based purely on gender. Mainly since there are a lot of Goddess oriented males, and I'm sure that some of them are artists. I don't think, however, that they're ignoring him on purpose, but I would expect that there would be at least more God depicting items than what I actually find.

I think I have a good understanding of your beliefs from what you've explained. I think maybe the real imbalance has to do, not with genders, but with the ideas of light and dark. I think if one balances these two elements then the gender issue is irrelevant. I think within Wicca the ideas of light and dark are personified within the Goddess and the God.

I agree, I follow a different dichotomy then gender, life and death and gender happens to fall into that but is not the ultimate categories.

 

[Grian]

I can only speak as an artist myself. I almost exclusively paint, create, etc. the female form. It's just what calls to me. Do you think that creativity can be seen as a more feminine (in the metaphorical sense) occupation? Even in men, perhaps this trait is a very feminine one? Just a thought.

 

[Gentoo]

I can only speak as an artist myself. I almost exclusively paint, create, etc. the female form. It's just what calls to me. Do you think that creativity can be seen as a more feminine (in the metaphorical sense) occupation? Even in men, perhaps this trait is a very feminine one? Just a thought.

I guess that would depend on who you talk to. I personally don't see the genders as very different and so assinging different characteristics doesn't make much sense to me. But, I would say that the ratio of male to female artists is about equal. I'd have to do a statistical study on that though, and I don't wanna