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God and his free will

God and his free will. A poll for determinists only

  • God has free will

    Votes: 9 42.9%
  • God does not have free will

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • Total voters
    21

Skwim

Veteran Member
So far all the debate on free will v. determinism has focused on we folks, but how about god. It's almost a certainty that Christians will declare their god has free will, but what do the determinists here say?

As a determinsist I say
1) God has free will

2) God does not have free will
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God is free will. I don't think God has any characteristic, because God doesn't have being -- God is Being.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
God is free will. I don't think God has any characteristic, because God doesn't have being -- God is Being.
That's not even coherent. That would imply that God is abstract, and so automatically has a characteristic.
Why would God be held to any human-derived "ism?"
Because God is consistent. Ergo, he is logical. Ergo, logical statements can be applied to him. "All causes precede their effects" is one such statement.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's not even coherent. That would imply that God is abstract, and so automatically has a characteristic.

Because God is consistent. Ergo, he is logical. Ergo, logical statements can be applied to him. "All causes precede their effects" is one such statement.
Characteristic, though, is defined by what can be observed from the outside. Since none of us stand outside God far enough to do that, we can't say whether God "has" characteristics.

God is logical -- but since God is infinite and we are finite, it only stands to reason that our logic with which we analyze God is limited as we are limited.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
God is logical -- but since God is infinite and we are finite, it only stands to reason that our logic with which we analyze God is limited as we are limited.
It doesn't stand to reason at all; The most elementary arguments can still cover infinite arrays of numbers. More advanced proofs cover infinite arrays of infinities.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It doesn't stand to reason at all; The most elementary arguments can still cover infinite arrays of numbers. More advanced proofs cover infinite arrays of infinities.
'K. God's larger than infinity. God goes beyond our logic.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So far all the debate on free will v. determinism has focused on we folks, but how about god. It's almost a certainty that Christians will declare their god has free will, but what do the determinists here say?

As a determinsist I say
1) God has free will

2) God does not have free will
I have yet to see a definition of free will that makes sense to me.

So I view free will is something that is not simply absent from beings, but something that may very well be completely nonsensical as a concept.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I have yet to see a definition of free will that makes sense to me.
Neither have I. So far no one who professes it has been able to coherently explain just what they're professing. As an example, simply look at the contortions sojourner here has been putting himself through.

So I view free will is something that is not simply absent from beings, but something that may very well be completely nonsensical as a concept.
Gotta agree.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
If you are a being, then you're obviously real. But that's not what God is; God is (apparently) Being itself. That's an incredibly abstract thing.
Things are. Being is not a thing. You've reversed the order of existence.

Things, in being, are in a created state. I intepret Sojourner's argument to be that God's visible presence is that created state (as opposed to God's uncreated state). The world exists concretely.
 
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