God and his free will

[sojourner]

Neither have I. So far no one who professes it has been able to coherently explain just what they're professing. As an example, simply look at the contortions sojourner here has been putting himself through.


Gotta agree.

Egocentrism is a poor substitute for Deity.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So abstract as to be ineffable and unable for humans to fully comprehend.

Yeah, some of us.

 

[Willamena]

I have to agree, though, about there not being enough options on the poll.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, some of us.

Egocentrism is a poor substitute for Deity.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Egocentrism is a poor substitute for Deity.

Lol. Deity is egocentrism.

 

[sojourner]

Lol. Deity is egocentrism.

I don't understand how Being, itself, can be "egocentric.":areyoucra

 

[Skwim]

I have to agree, though, about there not being enough options on the poll.

Can't change it, but what kind of options would you have liked?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Can't change it, but what kind of options would you have liked?

"He's beyond my logic and understanding so I have no bloody clue".

 

[atanu]

So far all the debate on free will v. determinism has focused on we folks, but how about god. It's almost a certainty that Christians will declare their god has free will, but what do the determinists here say?

As a determinsist I say

1) God has free will

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I will like to understand how being a strict determinist allows for a God and free will for Him.

 

[Koldo]

'K. God's larger than infinity. God goes beyond our logic.

How did you come to the conclusion that God goes beyond our logic?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

How did you come to the conclusion that God goes beyond our logic?

God created the universe. He was there before a universe. Before time existed. These things are beyond our logic and understanding. We cannot imagine life without time, because it is beyond us, we have not experienced it. In fact, common man would say it was impossible. And so it is beyond our logic.

God is also an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient Being. He is everywhere, and it is only logical to assume that he would be beyond our logic.

That's my take anyway.

 

[PolyHedral]

God is also an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient Being. He is everywhere, and it is only logical to assume that he would be beyond our logic.

It can't possibly be logical to assume a non-logical idea. That's a contradiction in terms.

 

[Willamena]

It can't possibly be logical to assume a non-logical idea. That's a contradiction in terms.

Playing devil's advocate, technically "beyond our logic" needn't be non-logical, any more than it need be logical.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Playing devil's advocate, technically "beyond our logic" needn't be non-logical, any more than it need be logical.

Awh, why do I always have to be the devil?

And yeah, I was gonna say something along those lines anywho.

 

[Koldo]

God created the universe. He was there before a universe. Before time existed. These things are beyond our logic and understanding. We cannot imagine life without time, because it is beyond us, we have not experienced it. In fact, common man would say it was impossible. And so it is beyond our logic.

How do you know this?

God is also an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient Being. He is everywhere, and it is only logical to assume that he would be beyond our logic.

That's my take anyway.

I don't see how being omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience goes beyond our logic. Whatever you mean by "our logic".

 

[PolyHedral]

Playing devil's advocate, technically "beyond our logic" needn't be non-logical, any more than it need be logical.

"Beyond our logic" suggests an entity that is not bound by the idea that not(P and ~P) is true, i.e. that there are no contradictions. However, suggesting such an entity automatically entails a contradiction because logic is assumed to be consistent. Once you say that an entity exists that isn't guaranteed to be consistent, you've broken the assumption that underpins logic, and so broken the assumption that underpins all meaning whatsoever.

Also,

Before time existed.

Think about what you just said. Go on, parse what "before time" actually implies. You can't, because the phrase is totally nonsensical and meaningless.

 

[Willamena]

Think about what you just said. Go on, parse what "before time" actually implies. You can't, because the phrase is totally nonsensical and meaningless.

Rather, "nonsensical and meaningless" is what you parse it as.

 

[PolyHedral]

Rather, "nonsensical and meaningless" is what you parse it as.

"Before" is only defined once time is established. In order for "before time" to be meaningful, time must exist before itself, which is absurd.

 

[Koldo]

Rather, "nonsensical and meaningless" is what you parse it as.

Do you have any objections against such label?
Do you find it to be inaccurate?

 

[Willamena]

"Before" is only defined once time is established. In order for "before time" to be meaningful, time must exist before itself, which is absurd.

You don't parse it 'before," you parse it "now."

Now is all that exists.