God and his hatred of homosexuality

[Skwim]

The Bible says that god really hates those who commit homosexual acts.

Lev. 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Rom. 1:26-27
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise alsothe men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. "
​

And that's one harsh judgment: death and all. But as has been argued time and again here on RF, god doesn't necessarily hate the homosexual, just the physical intimacy (s)he shares with those of the same sex. Acknowledging this is correct---I see no reason to contest the point--- why would god be against such intimacy? Evidently he doesn't care that those of the same sex love each other, just as men and women love each other, or even that they desire and yearn for one another. Just don't go shedding your tunics and loincloths, and start rubbing up against one another. God, then, seems to have no trouble with homosexuals sharing any of emotions that occur between men and women. "Go ahead and covet your bro, just don't take it any further."

The crux of god's fury then is physical intimacy between those of the same sex: the touching of another's body for sexual gratification, in whole or in part. In as much as god endowed almost all of humanity with sexual desire; and even when apart of from the purpose of procreation he doesn't regard sexual intimacy as a no-no, I have to conclude that this isn't a bad thing in of itself. In fact, sexual gratification is a good thing! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . except among those of the same sex. So, it comes down to the actual acts of touching pee-pees or pearl diving themselves, not the purpose or outcome itself that's god's problem (god still smiles down upon sexual gratification). His problem is that a specif part of one body touches a specific part of another body. Parts, all of which he approved of when they were first designed.

So, *sigh* god

1. approves of all our body parts
2. approves of sexual gratification
3. approves of people of the same sex loving one another
4. disapproves of people of the same sex lovingly obtaining sexual gratification among themselves with their approved body parts.
​

Therefore, I'm asking if anyone has any idea of what is so inherently bad about touching pee-pees or pearl diving that it's worth killing someone over? Just think of how innocuous homosexual acts are (no less so than those engaged in by heterosexuals). On the other hand, a man can play in the sandbox and god's just fine with it, but if a woman dare do the same, she had better start packing for hell. And, a woman can lay some lip, but a man had better keep his mouth shut.

Looked at rationally, I just can't make any sense of it. It's almost as if god randomly decided---no reasoning involved--- "Some people are going to desire those of the same sex much more than those of the opposite sex, which is just fine. And while there's nothing wrong with attaining sexual gratification if two people are of the opposite sex, this will be prohibited of people of the same. Why? Because I don't like it, that's why. And that's that!"

Now, I know that some say that trying to divine god's ways is impossible, in which case you people may be excused from participating here. But for those who do defend god and his ways by seeking to explain them, I welcome your input.

​

 

[Rick O'Shez]

As a general observation, the idea that a supreme being would be in the least bit interested in what people get up to in the bedroom seems absurd to me.

Could it be that the people who wrote the Bible lived in a culture where homophobia was present?

 

[Thana]

His problem is lust, And like money and arrogance and hatred, It can be a powerful influence and can control and ruin people's lives and become a form of idolatry.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

His problem is lust

It's a major problem for heterosexuals, judging by all the extramarital affairs and high divorce rate.

 

[gsa]

So the only activity mentioned is anal sex. Oral and touching might be permitted. Also, does God only care if it is bareback? I mean would the ancient authors (er...god) even consider condom sex "real"?

 

[gsa]

His problem is lust, And like money and arrogance and hatred, It can be a powerful influence and can control and ruin people's lives and become a form of idolatry.

So what makes some sex non-lustful? And why is homosexuality excluded from the party?

 

[Thana]

It's a major problem for heterosexuals, judging by all the extramarital affairs and high divorce rate.

Of course.

So what makes some sex non-lustful? And why is homosexuality excluded from the party?

Um.. plenty of things, lol. Kinda seems pretty obvious. Not being attracted to the person, not being in the mood, not consenting, not being concious, I'm sure there's plenty more.

And I didn't say anything about homosexuality.

 

[Knight of Albion]

Hate and God in the same sentence? Misrepresentation...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And I didn't say anything about homosexuality.

You said it was a "sin".

 

[Thana]

You said it was a "sin".

Yes, in a different thread though I don't see how that excludes homosexuality from non-lust or whatever you were referring too.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

The Bible says that god really hates those who commit homosexual acts.

Lev. 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Rom. 1:26-27
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise alsothe men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. "
​

And that's one harsh judgment: death and all. But as has been argued time and again here on RF, god doesn't necessarily hate the homosexual, just the physical intimacy (s)he shares with those of the same sex. Acknowledging they're correct---I see no reason to contest the point--- why would god be against such intimacy? Evidently he doesn't care that those of the same sex love each other, just as men and women love each other, or even that they desire and yearn for one another. Just don't go shedding your tunics and loincloths, and rubbing up against one another. God, then, seems to have no trouble with homosexuals sharing any of emotions that occur between men and women. "Go ahead and covet your bro, just don't take it any further."

This brings us to the crux of god's fury: physical intimacy between those of the same sex: the touching of another's body for sexual gratification, in whole or in part. In as much as god endowed almost all of humanity with sexual desire; and even when apart of from the purpose of procreation he doesn't regard sexual intimacy as a no-no, I have to conclude that this isn't a bad thing in of itself. In fact, sexual gratification is a good thing! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . except among those of the same sex. So, it comes down to the actual acts of touching pee-pees or pearl diving themselves, not the purpose or outcome itself (god still smiles down upon sexual gratification) that's god's problem. His problem is that a specif part of one body touches a specific part of another body. Parts, all of which he approved of when they were first designed.

So, *sigh* god

1. approves of all our body parts
2. approves of sexual gratification
3. approves of people of the same sex loving one another
4. disapproves of people of the same sex lovingly obtaining sexual gratification among themselves with their approved body parts.
​

Therefore, I'm asking if anyone has any idea of what's so inherently bad about touching pee-pees or pearl diving that it's worth killing someone over? Just think how innocuous homosexual acts are (no less so than those engaged in by heterosexuals). On the other hand, a man can play in the sandbox and god's just fine with it, but if a woman dare do the same, she had better start packing for hell. And, a woman can lay some lip, but a man had better keep his mouth shut.

Looked at rationally, I just can't make any sense of it. It's almost as if god randomly decided---no reasoning involved--- "Some people are going to desire those of the same sex much more than those of the opposite sex, which is just fine. And while there's nothing wrong with attaining sexual gratification if two people are of the opposite sex, this will be prohibited of people of the same. Why? Because I don't like it, that's why. And that's that!"

Now, I know that some say that trying to divine god's ways is impossible, in which case you people may be excused from replying. But for those who do defend god and his ways by seeking to explain them, I welcome your input.

​

God doesn't approve of any old sexual gratification. God disapproves of any sex outside marriage. God disapproves of adultery, multiple partners, pedophilia, etc.

God designed marriage to be between one man and one woman, and through this union new life can be created. There is sexual complementarity in a marriage, there is the possibility of procreation. If God designed man and woman to be together, who is man to rebel against God and decide that he wants another man, or a woman another woman?

When two people of the same sex have sexual relations, they're putting their pee-pee's in places that were never designed to be, even from a biological perspective we know this from the greatly increased chance of contracting diseases and all sorts of nasty bacteria.

At the heart of it is rebellion against God and what He has designed and ordered. Heterosexuals also get sexual desires, for the opposite sex, and it is wrong to act upon them outside the proper design that God has intended through marriage. It's not like heterosexuals are given free reign to act on whatever comes into their head, we all have to deal with temptations and the desire to sin.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Why doesn't the Bible suggest that married couples who have anal sex be killed?
Why doesn't the Bible suggest that unwed couples who have any kind of sexual relations be put to death?
Why doesn't the Bible make more of a mention of bestiality?
Why doesn't the Bible take a hard stance against polygamy and all of it's pitfalls?

I think the point of the OP was to question the apparent focus of the modern version of Christianity on how people get it on - which subsequently implies that God is way too concerned with what are essentially personal and private matters.

I mean, he quoted Leviticus, which says that homosexuals should die, and Romans, which isn't quite as harsh but does say that it's impure and against nature and expresses how certain lifestyles only lead to death...

I can understand why a religious philosopher, pushing for the existence of a new religion, would call out the prominent promiscuous inclinations of the present society, what with all of it's prostitutes, nudity, orgies, homosexual underage lieges, polygamy, etc.... But that has somehow turned into:

Spoiler: Image contains use of slurs

http://njjonesbrief2.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/westboro-baptist-church-god-hates-****-enablers-evil-sinners.jpg

...2,000 years later...

Seriously?

And then there's the softer approach, which I think needs to be further examined, where you guys say things like:

"Marriage was designed by god to be between one man and one woman...."

AND

"It's about rebellion against God and his laws..."

OR

"The pitfalls of homosexuality include all of the diseases..."

While those answers might fly amongst yourselves, or as explanations to other believers, they aren't good enough in the public square as to why there is a movement against the free choices of consenting adults to live as they chose to live. It doesn't give a reasonable explanation as to why the religious context provides avenues for real social hatred against people because of who they are. If the Bible only teaches that it's unwise to live a certain way, then why aren't there rallies, attended by hundreds of thousands of people, focused on the negatives of lying? Why aren't pickpockets roped to the back of a pick-up truck and dragged across the asphalt until their skin is peeled from their bodies?

See what I'm saying?

While I can appreciate at least understanding that "GOD HATES ****" is not going to win any converts other than the whackos on the farthest right, it's still misguided and I think most of you, deep down, at least somewhat get that. The face of Christianity in America has become little more than anti-abortion and worrying about gay people... What does that say about the God of the believer?

 

[Deidre]

Why does an almighty Creator need "defending?"

Seems to me people are defending the "sins" of which bother them the most. Heterosexual believers have plenty of weeds to pull out of their own backyards, not sure why they spend so much time instructing homosexuals to pull theirs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wow this is a powerful post. Let me see.

The Bible says that god really hates those who commit homosexual acts.

Lev. 20:13:
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Rom. 1:26-27
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise alsothe men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. "
​

The reason why homosexuals are hated in the Bible, is because the Bible describes a homosexual by his or her actions; we (homosexuals) are defined by what we do rather than who we are.

I mean, I am a homosexual and I don't think about what I do in regards to sexuality and actions daily. That's not who I am. Who I am is how I use my body to express those actions with the person that I love; the Bible doesn't mention about this love...

In other words, many homosexuals are not homosexuals according to the Bible because they (not all) do not define themselves by what they do in bed--which is what a homosexual is defined by based on scripture.

Also if you read the verses pertaining to homosexuality in scripture and the context behind some of them, homosexuality is akin to lust and rape. Not all homosexuals today rape and lust when they sleep with the person they love; so they aren't homosexuals.

And that's one harsh judgment: death and all. But as has been argued time and again here on RF, god doesn't necessarily hate the homosexual, just the physical intimacy (s)he shares with those of the same sex. Acknowledging they're correct---I see no reason to contest the point--- why would god be against such intimacy?

Because culturally, the parents always picked the wife or husband for their child in other countries. Mostly, they pick people of the opposite gender. The child usually doesn't have a say (unless in America where some people drop their cultural values). Many cultures combine spirituality and culture into one; so what is against their culture is whats against God.

Also some specific actions are not natural for the body to do. In Christianity, the reason two people join in matrimony is not only to express their commitment but to be fruitful and multiply. It's a generational and culture religion; and many people don't see that. No person regardless if they straight or gay, according to the Bible, they cannot do specific actions because they are unnatural (unhealthy and the human body isn't made to do some things) . That does not mean two people can not join together; just the Bible doesn't support lust.

The punishable by death is what they did back then. In America, we just put you on ignore in chat rooms or debate with you as if we hold the claims to truth. /shrugs/

Evidently he doesn't care that those of the same sex love each other, just as men and women love each other, or even that they desire and yearn for one another.

He does. It's the people who interpret their interpretations of their belief on others to state God doesn't care. The relationship is between God and the homosexual believer. No one else can tell him or her what is right but God. If we look to other people to speak on behalf of God, we will get mixed up answers of what is right and what is not according to how they see God.

Just don't go shedding your tunics and loincloths, and rubbing up against one another. God, then, seems to have no trouble with homosexuals sharing any of emotions that occur between men and women. "Go ahead and covet your bro, just don't take it any further."

He has trouble with lust. He doesn't speak of love between two people of the same gender outside of brotherly love and love for your neighbor.

According to some Christian denominations, self gratification is like abusing yourself. You are, how do I say, messing up parts that are made for sex. Anything extra is considered lust. That's why it is wrong, not the act itself is how scripture defines it.

So, *sigh* god

1. approves of all our body parts
2. approves of sexual gratification (scripture mentions its lust)
3. approves of people of the same sex loving one another (he doesn't mention about same-sex people loving each other only in brotherly love and loving your neighbor; Not intimacy that leads to marriage.
4. disapproves of people of the same sex lovingly obtaining sexual gratification among themselves with their approved body parts.

Because it is considered lust. Which kind of makes sense because even without God, there are some things that the body is not meant to do. Not all actions, but some.
​

Therefore, I'm asking if anyone has any idea of what's so inherently bad about touching pee-pees or pearl diving that it's worth killing someone over?

Outside of Christianity, it depends on the person. For me, there are specific things that our body are not made to do. As such, I do not do those things because they are against nature (life) which life to me is God. I would not kill anyone for doing things I disagree with (as I know some denominations have throughout history)


Looked at rationally, I just can't make any sense of it. It's almost as if god randomly decided---no reasoning involved--- "Some people are going to desire those of the same sex much more than those of the opposite sex, which is just fine. And while there's nothing wrong with attaining sexual gratification if two people are of the opposite sex, this will be prohibited of people of the same. Why? Because I don't like it, that's why. And that's that!"

Now, I know that some say that trying to divine god's ways is impossible, in which case you people may be excused from replying. But for those who do defend god and his ways by seeking to explain them, I welcome your input.

I just got to the end. I wouldn't define life (God) as if I know everything about Him regardless if people testified about Him in a Book or in person. I just know some things is unnatural for us to do. It doesn't mean that we cannot share intimacy to the people we love it just means be careful what you do and be natural about it. I believe that is how God (using a general term) wants.

​

[/QUOTE]

 

[gsa]

Yes, in a different thread though I don't see how that excludes homosexuality from non-lust or whatever you were referring too.

So why does God hate homosexuality?

 

[gsa]

God doesn't approve of any old sexual gratification. God disapproves of any sex outside marriage. God disapproves of adultery, multiple partners, pedophilia, etc.

God designed marriage to be between one man and one woman, and through this union new life can be created. There is sexual complementarity in a marriage, there is the possibility of procreation. If God designed man and woman to be together, who is man to rebel against God and decide that he wants another man, or a woman another woman?

When two people of the same sex have sexual relations, they're putting their pee-pee's in places that were never designed to be, even from a biological perspective we know this from the greatly increased chance of contracting diseases and all sorts of nasty bacteria.

At the heart of it is rebellion against God and what He has designed and ordered. Heterosexuals also get sexual desires, for the opposite sex, and it is wrong to act upon them outside the proper design that God has intended through marriage. It's not like heterosexuals are given free reign to act on whatever comes into their head, we all have to deal with temptations and the desire to sin.

Sorry, but there is no biblical prohibition on pedophilia, and the bible approves of relationships that we would define today as child sexual abuse. It also is silent on polygamy, which involves multiple partners. There are very strong commands against adultery, but given the property view of women one finds in the bible, that is neither surprising nor enlightened.

The problem is that your "design" theory ignores the realities of evolution by natural selection; there is no ascertainable intelligent design behind human biology, including our reproductive systems. And reproductive fitness is quite complex; it is possible that homosexuality can be explained in evolutionary terms by way of kin selection, which would provide ample "justification" for homosexuality.

The other problem with the design argument you are making should be obvious: Oral sex is not condemned, nor is anal heterosexual sex. Yet both actions involve non-reproductive sexuality; oral sex is in many if not most ways less risky than vaginal intercourse (with respect to HIV transmission, certainly). And yet another problem is easy enough to ponder: Anal sex can clearly be pleasurable, which suggests that there may be more to the story here, even if you accept intelligent design and ignore the clear evidence of evolution by natural selection.

If the Christian god condemns homosexuality while claiming that all that is created is good, and given that we know that homosexuality exists in nature quite apart from humans, the very existence of homosexuality would seem to call the existence of the Christian god into question.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But that has somehow turned into:

https://www.religiousforums.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnjjonesbrief2.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Fwestboro-baptist-church-god-hates-****-enablers-evil-sinners.jpg&hash=f383203d977e34c4284d1649eab98b65

...2,000 years later...

This just about says it all. Proof if needed of the rabid homophobia that still exists. Disgusting and totally un-Christian.

 

[sojourner]

God doesn't approve of any old sexual gratification. God disapproves of any sex outside marriage. God disapproves of adultery, multiple partners, pedophilia, etc.

God designed marriage to be between one man and one woman, and through this union new life can be created. There is sexual complementarity in a marriage, there is the possibility of procreation. If God designed man and woman to be together, who is man to rebel against God and decide that he wants another man, or a woman another woman?

When two people of the same sex have sexual relations, they're putting their pee-pee's in places that were never designed to be, even from a biological perspective we know this from the greatly increased chance of contracting diseases and all sorts of nasty bacteria.

At the heart of it is rebellion against God and what He has designed and ordered. Heterosexuals also get sexual desires, for the opposite sex, and it is wrong to act upon them outside the proper design that God has intended through marriage. It's not like heterosexuals are given free reign to act on whatever comes into their head, we all have to deal with temptations and the desire to sin.

Note, though, that, according to the bible, women who were barren (unable to produce new life) were also "without God," or "sinful." Yet, today, we don't think of impotency in that condemning way. Why, then, do we continue this barbaric double standard with homosexuality (which the ancients didn't understand as we do, anyway)?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So what makes some sex non-lustful? And why is homosexuality excluded from the party?

The intent behind the action. The commitment between the two parties with each other. Their goals with each other (rather than a one night stand). Their religious values they hold with each other. Also, that they are friends first and foremost rather than strangers they want to "get together with."

Also, the way one is intimate. In scripture, it says one consummate one's love after marriage. So anything before marriage, straight, gay, or otherwise is a sin. (Culture wise). For example, if sone is using extra parts or doing things that are against what a natural body is supposed to do regardless the orientation that may be considered lust--probably because such actions aren't gearded toward childbearing.

Other than that, who knows?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Thats bible.
In islam Allah doesnt hate disbelievers and gays but He has cursed them. The curse means that they are far removed from Allah and that they shall burn in hell for eternal.


67. And they will say: "Our Lord! Surely we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they caused us to follow a misleading path.



68. "Our Lord! Cause them to suffer the punishment doubled, and curse them with a mighty curse (so that they are utterly excluded, absolutely and eternally, from Your Mercy)!"

As for the muslim with homo/lesbian feelings, it is better for him/her to avoid major sinning and to give up these satanic feelings. Because the act homosexuality(Homosex/lesbiansex) is work of satan and unnatural.


Literal
But perhaps [that] you dislike a thing(Purification, obeying Allah, doing good deeds)and it (is) good for you; and perhaps [that] you love a thing (Homosexual feelings, sinning, immorality, gambling, drugs)and it (is) bad for you. And Allah knows while you (do) not know.