God and the Devil and what God expects of us

[Wildswanderer]

Treating others well is how a social species survives. Being selfish leads to extinction.

In fact in this scenario goodness is so arbitrary, that if a town were infected with a deadly disease that put the rest of the population at risk, the " good" thing to do would be the drop a bomb on that town. No need to even consider it a tough decision if goodness is only about survival of the whole.

 

[Viker]

Good and evil are human concepts based on our perception of the world and our interactions with others. They are mostly arbitrary and generally subjective. Perspective really. One person sees a six and the other sees a nine. A few just see a hoop with a tail.

However, compassion is inherent in humans. It likely stems from realizing in order that one continue it would be wise to assist or cooperate with others.

 

[Link]

A sign that the devil exists and hates Mohammad (s) and his family (a), is the blindness to Quran in a way that is unnatural, including the blindness to family of Mohammad (s) sacred position in the Quran.

This happens in a way where language is twisted beyond it's norms, and the easiest clearest recitation is locked away and not seen by humanity. The healing and clear wisdom is hidden due to dark magic from sorcerers and demons.

 

[74x12]

I'm sorry, but I don't see it like that. Bacteria are not moral agents. They don't have the capacity to be either good or evil. They can be beneficial or harmful *to us*, but they might be harmful for us and beneficial to another species or vice versa. They have no intent, and intent is central to being good or evil. We are the ones the determine whether the actions of a bacterium on us is harmful or not.

The word evil doesn't just mean wicked. In the archaic form it also means harmful. That would include in the Biblical sense by the way. So you do agree in that since that some bacteria are harmful. That's all I'm really saying. But my point is something made them harmful/evil.

I think your definition of good and evil (as only existing in sentient level thought) is somewhat valid from an atheistic perspective; but not from my perspective. Since I believe good and evil come from origins beyond the natural. So for me the existence of beneficial and harmful things in nature is just more confirmation of what I already know.

My point is that these bacteria/viruses and fungi seem to fall into general categories of good and evil all by themselves. Either being symbiotic or parasitic. As you point out they're incapable of evil or good intentions themselves but something made them the way they are.

As for certain forms of bacteria that may allegedly benefit one species and harm another. That doesn't disprove my point because we see the same in certain forms of evil/wickedness or immoral actions. There is usually some kind of gray area.

 

[Bird123]

peace be upon you members
I do not subscribe myself to any religion but do believe there is a God and an evil one-and the continous strife between the two.
I have seen problems in all religions yet the logical aspect is a God does exist and so does evil.Everything in the world points to this universal truth.
Anyway please visit my youtube video where I summarize some of the things I have pondered over researching the absolute truth
Thanks
peace be upon you
peace
Amin/amen

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. I have found no religion that really understands God at all. Religions are creations of mankind. That is who they reflect.

You seem to be basing God on the beliefs of religions instead of searching for truth on your own. Are you picking what you wish to be true out of all the religions you know? Do you search for truth or are you still following?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. Why do you and religions value blame? Why must you create a figure as the devil so you have someone to blame?

If the devil exists, why does God not fix the devil's problem? Does God want evil in this world? Could evil create goodness? What are the results of sin? Can you see no goodness that can come from sin?

What would you say If I told you that God exists, however the devil is no more than a creation of mankind?

I think you have asked far too few questions to even possibly come close to the Truth. You are still following and accepting.

I'll give you a clue. It has never even been about Beliefs. Further, It has never ever been about good vrs evil.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Mukhtar Farid]

Peace be upon you members
Hello thanks for viewing and not viewing the video
From my experience I believe there is a God and there is an evil one.However as to empirical proof I haven't gotten any.It actually depends-for example when I was in big trouble of getting bullied God protected me and ofcourse also when I got stuck in sticky situations.However nothing empirical but just miraculous events in sequence which undid the problem.

I ran a test with thermometer on boiling water and waited 19 minutes and supplicated the christian and islamic way-no results.

Viker, you said you don't believe in the universal truth-thats fine with me.I actually have no problems people have different opinions.But basically for reaching out to the real creator-whosoever he or she may be have some strict requirements in my honest opinion
Obviously they are:
1.Unconditional love towards all of creation including insects,mother earth(environment),all animals-sea and land and humans
2.Unconditional forgiveness -forgive all of creation regardless of scale of the oppression or sin
3.unending repentance towards the creator of the universe for both yourself and all of creation.
4.gratefulness towards the creation for everything for you and everything else

Obviously they key aspect you abstain from all vices(physical ones too) and consume resources(food,water,shelter) only as needed and keep donating to the needy

From my experience the evil one has powers to cause mischief, in some cases spiritually possesses humans(Annelisa and others) to make a point that evil is superior but I believe that is farthest from the truth.The good cannot be defeated and reincarnates as some other good force even when killed.The whole concept of unkillable evil is a myth projected by the evil one to keep creations in fear.

Peace,
Amen/Amin

 

[Mukhtar Farid]

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. I have found no religion that really understands God at all. Religions are creations of mankind. That is who they reflect.

You seem to be basing God on the beliefs of religions instead of searching for truth on your own. Are you picking what you wish to be true out of all the religions you know? Do you search for truth or are you still following?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. Why do you and religions value blame? Why must you create a figure as the devil so you have someone to blame?

If the devil exists, why does God not fix the devil's problem? Does God want evil in this world? Could evil create goodness? What are the results of sin? Can you see no goodness that can come from sin?

What would you say If I told you that God exists, however the devil is no more than a creation of mankind?

I think you have asked far too few questions to even possibly come close to the Truth. You are still following and accepting.

I'll give you a clue. It has never even been about Beliefs. Further, It has never ever been about good vrs evil.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I do not follow any religion just my experiences. Basically when I was young-being around people influenced by the evil one generates a negative energy which you can't miss.And lot of times I have seen it happen that whenever an evil happens the evil one's presence is not far.As for God, it could be something as simple as this incident-so a year back I was still a muslim and ordered the quran chapters in books to learn it -and I wished to God-that they arrive early in my mailbox-God instead sent my favorite comic that same day arriving in the mail.And this pattern happened a lot of times to me-so basically there is a God who understands what we need rather than what we think we need.

The islamic faith has issues as well as the christian faith and jewish faith-but that does not mean their claim that God and evil one is false well atleast from my viewpoint.
In islam there is concept called la hawla wa la quwatta illa billa.Which translates there is no power greater than God.And there is reason a 99 is not 100% so while the evil's one power is 99 God's power is 100 and will always topple the evil one's power.However it goes further-God's power is not 100 but unending-hence he keeps on expanding the universe.

So Bird123 those are purely my opinion,
If you believe in a God , what do you think God expects from us, in my view hence the video I summarize he expects four things
1.Unconditonal love for all of creation
2.Immense forgiveness for all of creation regardless of the scale of the oppression/sin
3.Unending repentance on behalf of all of creation and self towards the creator
4.Unending gratefulness to the creator on behalf of self and all of creation

And I have stopped praying either way since I came to realization of the truth but the truth brought me to accept those above points I mentioned

Also the concept of hell is an illusion as is the day of judgement.What we are experiencing is a simulation by God, with evil one allowed to operate and cause mischief

The evil's one greatest trick was to pin the blame on all other creations.
But in the final act-what will happen is snap of fingers by God,erasure of traumatic memories by sufferers and the erasure of the concept of evil and then every creation will be put to heaven

As to the fact whether I asked few questions-in my opinion my experiences and contemplation led me to this point.

Also I am of the belief that while criminals should be seperated from the society they need good beds,toilets,internet access and entertainment while strictly kept locked in the facility.They should not be treated the way they are treated right now in a unhygienic way-the creator in my opinion would find our actions totally unethical.So if we think we are clean that would be something to pray in repentance about.

Anyway this is just a debate so these are my views.And as I have said in the video I am not perfect but I did ponder a lot.

Peace be upon you Bird123
and peace be upon you other members
Peace,
Amen/Amin

 

[Brian2]

I'm sorry, but I don't see it like that. Bacteria are not moral agents. They don't have the capacity to be either good or evil. They can be beneficial or harmful *to us*, but they might be harmful for us and beneficial to another species or vice versa. They have no intent, and intent is central to being good or evil. We are the ones the determine whether the actions of a bacterium on us is harmful or not.

A bit off topic maybe but how does all this fit in with the B theory of time where all things just are and always have been?
Cause and effect is imo evidence that the B theory is incorrect and it gives a direction for time.

 

[Polymath257]

A bit off topic maybe but how does all this fit in with the B theory of time where all things just are and always have been?
Cause and effect is imo evidence that the B theory is incorrect and it gives a direction for time.

Causes happen in the forward light cones at each point. The notion of cause is a bit different in the B theory.

 

[Brian2]

Causes happen in the forward light cones at each point. The notion of cause is a bit different in the B theory.

I don't know what you mean by "forward light cones at each point".
If all of time and the events and things have always existed in B theory then I guess you have to have a forward direction of time for cause and effect to exist.
If there is a starting point for space/time in the B theory then it is not really a starting point unless the rest of it did not exist at that point.
At that stage it seems to end up like the A theory of time, which imo needs a starting point also.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't know what you mean by "forward light cones at each point".
If all of time and the events and things have always existed in B theory then I guess you have to have a forward direction of time for cause and effect to exist.
If there is a starting point for space/time in the B theory then it is not really a starting point unless the rest of it did not exist at that point.
At that stage it seems to end up like the A theory of time, which imo needs a starting point also.

The forward light cone at a point is everything that can be reached from that point going at or less than the speed of light. So, one second in the future and within about 186,000 miles; 2 seconds in the future and 372,000 miles, etc.

In the laws of physics, a point 'affects' another point only if that other point is in the future light cone.

A 'starting point' for time is similar to the south pole: it is part of the geometry from which there is no 'before' (south, in this analogy).

 

[Brian2]

The forward light cone at a point is everything that can be reached from that point going at or less than the speed of light. So, one second in the future and within about 186,000 miles; 2 seconds in the future and 372,000 miles, etc.

In the laws of physics, a point 'affects' another point only if that other point is in the future light cone.

A 'starting point' for time is similar to the south pole: it is part of the geometry from which there is no 'before' (south, in this analogy).

If there is no before at the starting point then that is the same as the A theory. (since in the A theory there had to have been a starting point)
There is relativity in the A theory but relativity does not affect anything, it is just what something looks like from different vantage points. (past, now, future)
Cause and effect tell us the correct direction of time, the direction we move in.

 

[Mukhtar Farid]

Speaking of cause and effect.if there is evil there is good and if there is good there is evil-so Newton's law modified would be every spiritual entity has an equal and opposite entity.atheists say that universe had no beginnning-my belief is God had no beginning he simply was there always-he is what he is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

peace be upon you members
I do not subscribe myself to any religion but do believe there is a God and an evil one-and the continous strife between the two.
I have seen problems in all religions yet the logical aspect is a God does exist and so does evil.Everything in the world points to this universal truth.
Anyway please visit my youtube video where I summarize some of the things I have pondered over researching the absolute truth
Thanks
peace be upon you
peace
Amin/amen

Sounds like this OP is just an advertisement for your youtube channel.
You are in the wrong forum.

In fact, I'm pretty sure this is a violation of the forum rules.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why do we even struggle with evil inclinations?

Because we are a social species.
In social species, there are always "rules of conduct" that translate into "good and bad behavior".

It's inevitable.

As far as that goes I don't even know what evil is, if there's no higher power?

Bad behavior. It requires no "higher power", whatever that is.
All it requires is an individual or group of individuals in a social group that behaves to the detriment of the group.

Why do we care?

Because we like surviving and well-being.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Narcissist people don't care about that. And why should they? Should I not just do what is best for me?

Yes, narcissists, psychopaths etc don't care.
This is why there is a label for them.

Without some higher authority I think I would do just that.

I doubt it.

Go ahead and test it.
Take a baseball bat and go out and smash random people's face in.

Who's going to get to you first to remove you from society / stop you / punish you? God or other humans?

Also, if you could actually do such a thing and not feel bad about it... then you belong to that minority group from the first quote, for which we have those labels. People without empathy etc. These are psychological / psychiatric diagnoses, do you realize that?

It means that there is something wrong with those people psychologically.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's what I mean by arbitrary. If it is just a survival instinct it's not goodness at all.

It seems you are using a different definition of "arbitrary" then the rest of the world.

Do you even understand what you just implied? It's not being good because we are actually compassionate beings in your world view, it's just what keeps us from going extinct.

He's saying that things are good because they are actually good (ie: they promote well-being).

In my view there's a higher good that informs us what right and wrong are.

Now THAT is what is arbitrary. Things are good because your perceived authority "says so".

If your perceived authority would tell you that it's good to fly planes into buildings filled with innocents, then flying planes into such buildings is good.

Under what @Polymath257 said, there is NO context in which flying planes into such buildings is good.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In fact in this scenario goodness is so arbitrary, that if a town were infected with a deadly disease that put the rest of the population at risk, the " good" thing to do would be the drop a bomb on that town.

No.

It would set a precedent that doesn't promote well-being at all.

No need to even consider it a tough decision if goodness is only about survival of the whole.

In your worldview, there's no need to consider any decision because goodness is just about obedience to a perceived authority.

 

[Mukhtar Farid]

Sounds like this OP is just an advertisement for your youtube channel.
You are in the wrong forum.

In fact, I'm pretty sure this is a violation of the forum rules.

If there is a particular point you wish to discuss then state it.

Peace be upon you,
I am upset by forum's reaction towards me, but I am fine I forgive you.Also a future reference so that you do not upset God-you might consider rethinking about blocking people who promote charitable actions or paying charity to charity organizations-which is exactly what I did and I was blocked.Either way I forgive you and I know you will not let this comment stay-but either way I forgive you.I also know that I may be evicted from here and for that also I forgive you.Basically you have a choice to the right thing or wrong thing.

Thanks
Peace be upon you
Amin/Amen

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Peace be upon you,
I am upset by forum's reaction towards me, but I am fine I forgive you

There's no reason to be upset when being informed about forum rules.
There's also no need to "forgive me" for pointing out such rules.
You are new here. It's fine.

.Also a future reference so that you do not upset God-you might consider rethinking about blocking people who promote charitable actions or paying charity to charity organizations-which is exactly what I did and I was blocked.

What are you on about?
I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you confusing me with someone else?

Either way I forgive you and I know you will not let this comment stay

You seem confused. I am not a moderator here. I am not "mr forum".
I'm just a user just like you.

Having said that. It matters not who you are or what you do in real life.
There are forum rules and there are consequences to violating those rules. The rules are set and so are the consequences. If you engage in violations for which people get banned / blocked, then you will get banned / blocked regardless of who you are. The rules are the same for everyone.

I also know that I may be evicted from here and for that also I forgive you.Basically you have a choice to the right thing or wrong thing.

The right thing is holding everyone to the same rules.
Stop playing the victim.