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God as the ultimate source of evil

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Your definitions don't refute the idea of evil being what is opposed to God, for God could be the ultimate moral compass, meaning what opposes God is what is immoral... plenty of people hold that view...

Yes i agree, there are a lot of brainwashed people out there.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Ahhh.
I understand now.
I disagree, but I do understand.


Fair enough.

You have to love fabricating everything you say because it has a different "theological meaning." To me that means i want to change the meaning of something to suit my opinion, its a theist get out of jail free card :rolleyes:
 
I have been thinking about this concept and I think I need a more biased opion to help me refine it a little better.

I propose god is the ultimate source of evil and even the most evil thing that exists (assuming a god exists at all that is). I would base this most off of the christian concept of god but I think it applies to any kind of creator god. But I am going to explain it from a christian perspective so if your idea of god isn't a perfect creator god then this probably doesn't apply.

Anyways, satan is considered the ultimate evil right? But for satan to be more evil than god would mean satan would have to be at least that more powerfull than god in that arena. But if god is the creator, than satan cannot be more powerfull than god in any way. How can a creator create something greater than himself especially if the creator is already the ultimate thing? He can't, if god could create something greater than himself, he wouldn't be god anymore, he would be second to the new god which he just created.

So, if nothing can be greater than god, god must be the greatest evil force in the universe. Of course this would mean god would also be the greatest good in the universe which would mean god is really the greatest nuetral force in the universe. That raises a whole miriad of other questions but that is for another discussion. The bottom line, regardless of whether god is directly controling the evil in the universe, god will always be the ultimate source fo that evil, like water spraying from a hose, you can control the water by manipulating the nozzle but the ultimate source of the water is at the spigot, the hose is irrelevant. Just as satan is irrelevant as god is the true cause of evil.

First of all, that's a great analogy you set up. But to answer your question, God as the Creator is indeed the spigot. We are the water, lacking moral direction. God is the hose, regulating and directing the water in such a way that it causes the grass and the trees to grow. Yes, God is the first cause/does allow evil. But only in such a way as to bring about an ultimately positive outcome in the souls of men and in the world.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
First of all, that's a great analogy you set up. But to answer your question, God as the Creator is indeed the spigot.

Is he? Prove it :p No really don't bother, but still, your convictions are not uniformly shared. Why would a God put us here on a planet we can so easily destroy?

That brings about a similar question; why did God commit attrocities simply to teach Noah a lesson?

Your God is a sadist
 

McBell

Unbound
You have to love fabricating everything you say because it has a different "theological meaning." To me that means i want to change the meaning of something to suit my opinion, its a theist get out of jail free card :rolleyes:
I completely agree.
However, I learned not to long ago that any "discussion" with these types is completely useless unless you can go with "the flow of ever changing definitions" and I for one do not have the political correctness or patience for such Blatant Bovine Feces.
 
Is he? Prove it :p No really don't bother, but still, your convictions are not uniformly shared. Why would a God put us here on a planet we can so easily destroy?

That brings about a similar question; why did God commit attrocities simply to teach Noah a lesson?

Your God is a sadist

The original poster wasn't asking for evidence whether God exists or not--he ASSUMED it then asked about something else. As far as destroying the planet, if as I assume you're not a creationist but an evolutionist, then the planet has been in existence for millions of years and it's not dead yet. In fact, in Revelations, God promises that He will preserve the planet. As far as atrocities, first of all, the relatively small number of people who existed during Noah's time were not innocent victims. They were described as especially evil (as opposed to sinners in the sense that everyone is a sinner). Second, from God's perspective, death is not the end but rather a case of moving people from one place to another. In any event, I don't define evil as simply anything bad happening to anyone. Based upon that reasoning, a judge who sends a rapist or a murderer to jail is "evil."
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
The original poster wasn't asking for evidence whether God exists or not--he ASSUMED it then asked about something else. As far as destroying the planet, if as I assume you're not a creationist but an evolutionist, then the planet has been in existence for millions of years and it's not dead yet. In fact, in Revelations, God promises that He will preserve the planet.

Why assume that? We're not talking about evolution but rather your bible right here. God better act fast in any case. For the record though the earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
You trust an ancient book to save your bacon over people who study the planet?


As far as atrocities, first of all, the relatively small number of people who existed during Noah's time were not innocent victims. They were described as especially evil (as opposed to sinners in the sense that everyone is a sinner). Second, from God's perspective, death is not the end but rather a case of moving people from one place to another. In any event, I don't define evil as simply anything bad happening to anyone. Based upon that reasoning, a judge who sends a rapist or a murderer to jail is "evil."

Cool lets kill people who are evil. Christians are pretty good at that aren't they.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Pretty much sums it up, yes.


you have a rather interesting definition of evil:
e·vil
adj.
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.
adv. Archaic
In an evil manner.

[Middle English, from Old English yfel; see wap- in Indo-European roots.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Many words have meanings beyond the definitions given in dictionaries, you know.

That being said, I do think we can all agree that the above definitions are accurate as basic definitions.
 

McBell

Unbound
Many words have meanings beyond the definitions given in dictionaries, you know.

That being said, I do think we can all agree that the above definitions are accurate as basic definitions.
Yes I do know.
However, the dictionary is still the best place to START.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,

Here like all to change the perspective.

Where did *god* come from?

God is only a concept a label given by us humans and anything that comes out of human minds always have two sides to it by default. Meaning as soon as *god* is created *satan gets created by default. Days follows or followed by night. good/bad, etc.

The root of the search should be the *mind* not god and those who been able to be aware of the goings on of their own minds and eventually no thoughts remain in such minds ; such a person is called a *buddha*.

Love & rgds
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend EtuMalku,

Are we talking about the Abrahamic God here?

Abraham came much after humans evolved, right?

The concept of god came much before Abraham or others associate with organised religions.

Love & rgds
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Friend EtuMalku,
Abraham came much after humans evolved, right?

The concept of god came much before Abraham or others associate with organised religions.

Love & rgds
Then we are talking about Gods, not one. So which God is the OP referring to?
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I propose god is the ultimate source of evil and even the most evil thing that exists (assuming a god exists at all that is).

" יוֹצֵר אוֹר וּבוֹרֵא חֹשֶׁךְ, עֹשֶׂה שָׁלוֹם וּבוֹרֵא רָע; אֲנִי יְהוָה, עֹשֶׂה כָל-אֵלֶּה"

"YoTzeR Ohr u Borei Khoshek, Oseh Shalom u Borei Ra, Ani Hashem Oseh Khol Eila"

I form light and create darkness, make peace and create evil, I the Lord make all these."~Isaiah 45:7
 
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