God created evil

[ankarali]

Why are devils created? Almighty God created Satan and evils; what is the wisdom in it? Isn't the creation of evil, evil, and the creation of bad, bad?
T h e A n s w e r : God forbid, the creation of evil is not evil, the desire for or inclination towards evil, rather, is evil. For creation and bringing into existence look to all the consequences, whereas such desire looks to a particular result, since it is a particular relation. For example, there are thousands of consequences of rain falling, and all of them are good. If through ill choice, some people receive harm from the rain, they cannot say that the creation of rain is not mercy, they cannot state that the creation of rain is evil. Rather, it is due to their ill choice and inclination that it is evil for them. Also, there are numerous benefits in the creation of fire, and all of them are good. But if some people receive harm from fire through their misuse of it and their wrong choice, they cannot say that the creation of fire is evil, because it was not only created to burn them. Rather, they thrust their hands into the fire while cooking the food through ill choice, and made that servant inimical to themselves.
In Short: The lesser evil is acceptable for the greater good. If an evil which will lead to a greater good is abandoned so that a lesser evil should not be, a greater evil will then have been perpetrated. For example, there are certainly some minor material and physical harms and evils in sending soldiers to fight a jihad, but in the jihad is a greater good whereby Islam is saved from being conquered by infidels. If the jihad is abandoned due to those lesser evils, then the greater evil will come after the greater good has gone. And that is absolute wrong. And for example, to amputate a finger which is infected with gangrene and has to be amputated is good and right, although it is apparently an evil. For if it is not amputated, the hand will be amputated, and that would be a greater evil.
Thus, the creation and bringing into existence of evils, harms, tribulations, satans, and harmful things, is not evil and bad, for they are created for many important results. For example, satans have not been set to pester the angels, and the angels cannot progress; their degrees are fixed and deficient. However, in the world of humanity the degrees of progress and decline are infinite. There is an extremely long distance through which to progress, from the Nimrod's and Pharaoh's as far as the veracious saints and the prophets.
Thus, through the creation of satans and the mystery of man's responsibility and the sending of prophets, an arena of trial and examination and striving and competition has been opened so that coal-like base spirits may be differentiated and separated out from diamond-like elevated spirits. If there had been no striving and competition, the potentialities in the mine of humanity which are like diamonds and coal would have remained equal. The spirit of Abu Bakr the Veracious at the highest of the high would have remained on the same level as that of Abu Jahl at the lowest of the law. This means that since the creation of satans and evils looks to great and universal results, their being brought into existence is not evil or bad. The evils and instances of bad that arise from abuses and the particular causes known as inclination or choice pertain to man's choice, not to Divine creation.
If you ask? The majority of humanity become unbelievers due to the existence of Satan and embrace unbelief and suffer harm, despite the sending of prophets: If, according to the rule, "the majority has the word," the majority suffers evil as a result, then the creation of evil is evil, and it may even be said that the sending of prophets is not a mercy. Is that not so?
The Answer: Quantity has no importance in relation to quality. The true majority looks to quality. For example, if. there are a hundred seeds of the date-palm and they are not put beneath the earth and watered and so do not undergo a chemical reaction and manifest a struggle for life, they are only a hundred seeds worth virtually nothing. But If they are watered and are subject to the struggle for life, and then eighty out of the hundred rot due to their faulty make-up, but twenty become fruit-bearing trees, can you say, "watering them was evil because most of them ratted?" Of course, you cannot say that, for that twenty have become like twenty thousand. One who loses eighty and gains twenty thousand suffers no harm and it cannot be evil.
And for example, if a peahen lays one hundred eggs, and they are worth five hundred kurush. If the hen sits on the hundred eggs and eighty are spoilt and twenty hatch into peacocks, can it be said that there was a high loss and the affair was evil; that it was bad to put the broody hen on the eggs and an evil occurred? No, it is not thus, it is rather a good. For the peacock species and egg family lost eighty eggs worth four hundred kurush, but gained twenty peacocks worth eighty liras.
Thus, through the sending of prophets and the mystery of man's responsibility, and through striving, and fighting with satans, in return for the hundreds of thousands of prophets and millions of saints and thousands of millions of purified scholars they have gained, who are like the suns, moons, and stars of the world of humanity mankind has lost the unbelievers and dissemblers, who are numerous in regard to quantity, insignificant in regard to quantity, and like harmful beasts.


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Risale-i Nur Collection[/FONT]

 

[jaareshiah]

Clue here; just because a book provides some facts and occasional good advice doesn't exempt it from all its faults.

Has the Bible not spawned thousands of splinter groups, some with outright animosity toward each other? YES. and without any doubt.

Has the Bible not spawned hatred. YES, Just think of poor Northern Ireland.

Has the Bible not spawned violence. YES, Just think of poor Northern Ireland.

Our Creator, Jehovah God, has established moral boundaries for the benefit of all. The Bible is not just "a book (that) provides some facts and occasional good advice", but "inspired of God".(2 Tim 3:16) At Isaiah 48, Jehovah says: "I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit [yourself], the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea."(Isa 48:17, 18)

For "meek" individuals to enjoy genuine happiness and for genuine justice to be extended throughout the earth, those who wish to disregard God's moral laws and guidelines cannot be allowed to remain. These must experience "evil" in the form of being completely removed from the earth.(Isa 45:7)

On the other hand, like a river that goes on and on and like the "waves of the sea" that never stop, genuine peace is what will be for those who are "trembling at my (Jehovah's) word".(Isa 66:2) These ones have a wholesome fear of displeasing God, because they love him, just as a son who loves his father who shows genuine love for his family. Jesus set the perfect pattern for his disciples in this regard.(1 Pet 2:21-23)

What kind of peace do you want ? Do you want criminalistic men and women to continue, those who have no regard for the sanctity of life, those who are ill-mannered, conceited and self-centered ? For example, several months ago, a 2 year girl was hit by a vehicle in China. She lay there bleeding for ten minutes while vehicles and people just walked right by her without lifting a finger to assist her. Only a homeless woman came to her rescue. Two days later, she died. Many, even in China, were deeply incensed.

Kindness and love are being thrown "out the window", and the moral values of being married before conceiving a child is now being cast aside, with unmarried mothers giving birth to 4 out every 10 babies born in the United States.(New York Times, 5/13/09) Lack of love is now dominating society.(Matt 24:12) Is this the kind of future that you want ? On the other side of the coin, this is not the kind of future that God purposed for his creation. He never intended for mankind to sink to such lows of morality, but gave a high moral code that provided security for all.

The Bible has not "spawned thousands of splinter groups, some with outright animosity toward others". When a manufacturer provides instruction on how his product should be assembled and used, is it the fault of the manufacturer when these instructions are disregarded or altered ?

The churches of Christendom have disregarded or twisted what the Bible says. That is why Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you ! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."(Matt 7:21-23) Who are the ones "doing" God's will ?

Why did Jesus condemn those who professed to serve him, but by their "works" proved that they had disregarded his words ? Because Jesus, as Jehovah's appointed judge (John 5:22), will see to it that those who have chose to ignore God's moral laws and principles as found in the Bible, will have "evil" done to them, being destroyed so that these wicked attitudes (and the people who promote them) will never exist again.

Isaiah 11 says that Jesus "will not judge by any mere appearance to his eyes, nor reprove simply according to the thing heard by his ears. And with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones, and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth. And he must strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the spirit of his lips he will put the wicked one to death."(Isa 11:3, 4)

Do you really want genuine justice to prevail throughout the earth, or are you satisfied with the "status quo" as it is now, with corruption abounding in every corner of it ? If you were before a judge, would you want the judge to judge fairly in your behalf or distort the law and fine you or put you in jail (if you are innocent) ? Most want to be treated "fair and square".

The Bible has not "spawned hatred", with the example of northern Ireland, for of the hatred between Protestants and Catholics is not the fault of the Bible, but of sectarianism.

Had these applied John 13, whereby Jesus said: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves"(John 13:34, 35), then there would be no "Protestant" (the word Protestant comes from religious factions who protested against Catholicism in the 17th century) and Catholicism (meaning "universal"), for all would be serving Jehovah God as "one" or in unity. (John 17:21-23) These have proven to not be Jesus genuine disciples but counterfeit ones, having cast aside Bible principles of godly love, yet professing to be "Christian". Would you rather have genuine money or counterfeit ?

The Bible has not "spawned violence", for it is the shoving aside of the Bible and it moral laws that are based on godly love, that has spawned violence. Can a person love their neighbor and yet cause him harm ? Jesus, quoting from the Bible book of Deuteronomy, told the conceited Pharisees: "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’(Deut 6:5) This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’(Lev 19:18) On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”(Matt 22:37-40) Can genuine love murder another person ?

It is the failure to apply these commands that has spawned violence, not the Bible. That is why Jesus said: "Therefore everyone that hears these sayings of mine and does them will be likened to a discreet man, who built his house upon the rock-mass. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded upon the rock-mass. Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be likened to a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”(Matt 7:24-27)

So who or what is to blame for all the injustice, hatred and violence that encircles the earth among those who profess Christianity, the Bible or the failure to apply Bible principles ? Jesus identified it as those "not doing them" or closely adhering to his words. Hence, do you want to be "a discreet man" or "a foolish man" ?

 

[jaareshiah]

Has the Bible not sanctioned death. Yes, Some of the reasons:

Murder
Adultery
Bestiality
Rape
Sodomy
One man picked up sticks on the Sabbath, he was taken into custody because a punishment was not known.
  The lord told Moses that the man in custody must be killed.
A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped
A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding
Worshiping other gods
Witchcraft
Taking the lords name in vain or cursing his name
Cursing a parent
Kidnapping

​

Yup;

And when you say all these people, those of the thousands of denominations, "have distorted what the Bible really teaches," am I to assume that you, jaareshiah, have a lock on the what the Bible "really teaches"? If so, I'm afraid you'll have to get in the back of the line. A very looong line.

The Bible only speaks through its interpreters, so to speak in its own defense it's message is necessarily filtered through the agendas of these people. So, where do you propose a person go to find the "truth" of the book? I assume, your own church.

And yes, the Bible has sanctioned death for those who have swept God's moral laws "under the rug". Do you want to live among people whose only thought is breaking the law, without any loving consideration for others ? Because so many are this way, having total disregard for others, but seeking to take advantage of them, many are now fearful, locking their doors, being suspicious of everyone, even online there are scammers who seek to deceive people and rob them. Is this the kind of life you want ? Would you want a rapist to be walking about your neighborhood ? Women especially have right to be frightened by this.

This is not the kind of life our Maker, Jehovah God, made for mankind. Everyone has a choice, to learn to love God's moral, physical and spiritual laws, and enjoy true peace, whereby a person never has to worry about any criminal act against them, but in which only genuine love is performed toward them. Just as a concerned househoulder does not want an infestation of termites to continue, so likewise our Creator, Jehovah God, will not allow an infestation of those who ignore his laws. Is not the reason why there is law enforcement, to remove all violaters of the law, to keep some semblance of order. The apostle Paul wrote that "where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom."(2 Cor 3:17)

And yes, I have a "lock on the Bible", for I am part of an organization that is "doing" God's will rather than just giving "lip service". These are the ones who have put in place God's moral laws and not allowed lesbians, bi-sexuals, gay and transgender people (LGBT) to be a part of it. If a person who is LGBT wants to please God, these have to make personality changes, putting on the "new personality" that is in imitation of Jesus.(Col 3:10) These have to transform their lives so as to measure up to the moral boundaries found in the Bible. These have to come to love Jehovah God and be his Witnesses.(Matt 22:37)

The apostle Paul wrote: "What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God."(1 Cor 6:9-11)

These have put off the shackles of immoral behavior and of false religion and are now allowing themselves to be taught by Jehovah.(Isa 2:2-4; Isa 54:13) These are "no part of the world", having no part on the corrupt political arena or or greedy business or of the churches of Christendom nor of the other false religions around the world.(John 15:19) These have accepted all of the Bible (all 66 books) as God's word.

The apostle Paul said that there is "one Lord, one faith, one baptism."(Eph 4:5) Which religion or "one faith" is honoring the God of the Bible, Jehovah, unafraid to use his name ? Which religion has put in place Jehovah's moral boundaries ? Many religions of Christendom have allowed homosexuals to be a part of their congregation, such as Episcopalians (consecrating the gay Gene Robinson in 2003 as a bishop) and the Church of Christ, permitting same-sex marriages.

Which religion is fulfilling Jesus words to "go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you" ?(Matt 28:19 20) Please allow the facts to speak for themselves.

 

[Skwim]

The Bible has not "spawned thousands of splinter groups, some with outright animosity toward others". When a manufacturer provides instruction on how his product should be assembled and used, is it the fault of the manufacturer when these instructions are disregarded or altered ?

But this is the core of the problem. God hasn't provided good instructions. The Bible is so susceptible to interpretation---which is attested to by the many, many interpretations around---that as an instruction book it's a grand failure. Good instruction books don't say "Take a bolt and put it in a hole," leaving one to wonder, "What bolt?. What hole?" No, it will tell you which bolt and which hole. Or, a good instruction book won't tell you to take bolt #7 and put it in hole H, and then later on tell you to take bolt #7 and put it in hole D. Yet this is the type of confusion that one comes across throughout the Bible. If it actually is an inspired book of god, then I can only conclude he wasn't all that inspiring to those who jotted it down.

The Bible has not "spawned hatred", with the example of northern Ireland, for of the hatred between Protestants and Catholics is not the fault of the Bible, but of sectarianism.

Of course you can pick any point on the continuum of responsibility, but ultimately it comes down to the actual source of all Christianity. The buck stops at the Bible, and to stop short of this and assign Christian hatred, violence, and all the other shortcomings of religious actions on something else is plain dishonest. Lay the blame where it belongs: the Bible. Were the Bible the perfect book of a perfect god then there would be no room for disagreement about its message. But there IS disagreement, which in turn has fostered thousands of denominations of Christianity, which, yes it IS a fact, sometimes harbor animosity toward each other. One would think an omnipotent god could have easily avoided such a sad outcome by inspiring a perfect book of instructions. Alas, it just didn't turn out that way. Gotta wonder why don't you?

And yes, the Bible has sanctioned death for those who have swept God's moral laws "under the rug". Do you want to live among people whose only thought is breaking the law, without any loving consideration for others ?

Do you actually believe this is the consequence of sanctioning death for those who have swept God's moral laws "under the rug"? That we would be at each others throats without the Bible? Believe it or not, but there are actually non-Christian societies just as peaceful and law abiding as those harboring Christianity. And do you truly believe that all the reasons the Bible cites (see my last post) for putting a person to death are justified? Would you actually vote for a law that set the death penalty for any engaged woman who failed to cry out when being raped? Or any kid who might happen to curse her parent? Or be in favor of putting to death any woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding? These are some of gods instructions---moral laws I guess---which you say, if not followed would lead to breaking the law, without any loving consideration for others. Give me a break. But go ahead and cherry pick the list so it comes out somewhat reasonable. After all, this is just the approach many Christians take toward the Bible: "I'll believe everything that falls in accord with my needs, and chuck the rest.

And yes, I have a "lock on the Bible", for I am part of an organization that is "doing" God's will rather than just giving "lip service".

Ah, once again Christian hubris raises its head.

 

[rusra02]

A book so poorly written that it beggars a single translation, and instead has spawned not only thousands of splinter groups (denominations), some with outright animosity toward each other, but hatred, violence, and has even sanctioned death. And this is the best an omnipotent and loving god could do. Truth is, I know of human beings who could have done a better job, Mahatma Gandhi being one of them.

You should not blame the thousands of splinter groups on the Bible, nor the hatred, violence, and death that results. Those who truly follow the Bible are not guilty of such things. Most people who have only a passing acquaintance with the Bible know that it says to "Love your neighbor as yourself." While most professed "Christian" religions give lip-service to that command, in practice they ignore it, and willingly slaughter one another and others for a wide variety of reasons. On the other hand, I believe that those who truly follow Christ's teachings would rather die than murder a fellow human, and especially a fellow Christian.

 

[jaareshiah]

But this is the core of the problem. God hasn't provided good instructions. The Bible is so susceptible to interpretation---which is attested to by the many, many interpretations around---that as an instruction book it's a grand failure. Good instruction books don't say "Take a bolt and put it in a hole," leaving one to wonder, "What bolt?. What hole?" No, it will tell you which bolt and which hole. Or, a good instruction book won't tell you to take bolt #7 and put it in hole H, and then later on tell you to take bolt #7 and put it in hole D. Yet this is the type of confusion that one comes across throughout the Bible. If it actually is an inspired book of god, then I can only conclude he wasn't all that inspiring to those who jotted it down.

There is no doubt a widespread number of interpretations, with over 41,000 denominations and sects that profess "Christianity". However, just as assembling a precision component requires an exact way of assembly in order for it to function properly, so likewise of the Bible. Three days before Jesus death, he spoke of a "faithful and discreet slave" that would provide "food" ("meat in due season", King James Bible, Matt 24:45). Hence, Jesus showed where to find the right "interpretation", that provided by a symbolic "slave".

This "faithful and discreet slave" was appointed by Jesus to dispense spiritual "food", giving understanding and harmony to the Bible, and not as the churches have done, with a whole host of different viewpoints that are often at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Only those whom God has chosen can unravel the "mysteries" of the Bible, for Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly Father: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you."(Matt 11:25, 26)

Thus, our Creator, Jehovah God, has hidden understanding of the Bible from most, including those who have a high intellectual degree, but have instead "revealed them to babes" or individuals who display a humble and "meek" attitude". God intentionally made the Bible impossible to "assemble" properly by most, being ' the way approved by him'.

For example, at Matthew 13, Jesus used the Greek word sy·ni´e·mi six times (Matt 13:13, 14, 15, 19, 23, 51), both in a negative and positive sense regarding the "mysteries of the kingdom". This Greek word literally has the meaning to "mentally put the pieces together", like putting a 1000 piece puzzle together. The churches have placed "pieces" in the wrong place, making the picture twisted or warped. The accurate picture that the puzzle should present is distorted or totally inaccurate by the churches.

Hence, Jesus said to his disciples: "To you (his faithful disciples, not the churches) it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."(Matt 13:11, 12)

Jesus then said: "This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations ("parables", King James Bible), because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it ("get the sense of it", Greek sy·ni´e·mi); and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, you will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, you will look but by no means see."(Matt 13:13, 14)

The Bible is, in effect, written in "riddles", to prevent unworthy ones from understanding it. The apostle Matthew wrote: "All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds by illustrations. Indeed, without an illustration he would not speak to them; that there might be fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet who said (at Psalms 78:2): “I will open my mouth with illustrations, I will publish things hidden since the founding.”(Matt 13:34, 35)

Hence, it is Jehovah's intent that the Bible be "hidden" in understanding from all except his faithful disciples, and therefore appointed a "faithful and discreet slave" to unlock "the mysteries of the kingdom".(Matt 13:11, King James Bible)

For instance, in the Bible book of Daniel, king Nebuchadnezzar had a dream that his "magic-practicing priest or conjurer or Chaldean" was unable to even bring forth or explain.(Dan 2:10) The only one able to unravel the meaning of the dream was Daniel.

He told king Nebuchadnezzar: "The secret that the king himself is asking, the wise men, the conjurers, the magic-practicing priests [and] the astrologers themselves are unable to show to the king. However, there exists a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets, and he has made known to King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar what is to occur in the final part of the days. Your dream and the visions of your head upon your bed—this it is:"(Dan 2:27, 28) And who was Daniel's God that revealed the understanding of the dream concerning "an immense image", but barred it from all of Babylon's "wise men" ?(Dan 2:31) Jehovah.(Dan 1:2)

And then some 67 years later, Nebuchadnezzar's grandson, Belshazzar saw writing by "the fingers of a man's hand" on the "plaster of the wall of the palace" (Dan 5:5), whereby "at that time all the wise men of the king were coming in, but they were not competent enough to read the writing itself or to make known to the king the interpretation."(Dan 5:8) Only Daniel, who was a loyal servant of Jehovah God, was able to reveal to Belshazzar the meaning of the writing.(Dan 5:24-28)

Thence, only those appointed by God can unveil the meaning of the Bible, and in these "last days", through Jesus, he has appointed a symbolic "faithful and discreet slave"(Matt 24:45-47), a loyal group of individuals to Jehovah God that are able "make sense" of the Bible.

 

[Skwim]

You should not blame the thousands of splinter groups on the Bible, nor the hatred, violence, and death that results.Those who truly follow the Bible are not guilty of such things.

Really? Seems like the Bible is a fine source for immoral behavior. See my reply below.

Most people who have only a passing acquaintance with the Bible know that it says to "Love your neighbor as yourself." While most professed "Christian" religions give lip-service to that command, in practice they ignore it, and willingly slaughter one another and others for a wide variety of reasons. On the other hand, I believe that those who truly follow Christ's teachings would rather die than murder a fellow human, and especially a fellow Christian.

But the Bible is where Christians get to pick the message that validates their needs and beliefs. Don't like gays? There's a passage that supports your hatred. Don't like blacks? There's a passage that supports slavery. Want to kill your wife because you find out she wasn't a virgin on your wedding night? There's a passage for that as well. Want to marry your sister? there's a passage that supports it. Want to drink until you can no longer remember? Go ahead because the Bible supports it. Want to kill gays? Just read Leviticus 20:13, and you have god's blessing. Don't like the local 7-11 doing business on Sunday? Get a Uzi and have fun. Want to sell your daughter as a slave? Go ahead. Want to . . . . . . . . ETC. ETC. ETC.


Point is, the Bible is a poor source for establishing morals. In fact, looking a Fred Phelps and his anger toward homosexuals, which he supports with the Bible, it's easy to conclude that the Bible is fatally flawed.

This isn't to say that many people have been helped by the book, but it could have done so in a far, far better way. Why leave room for interpretations that can easily lead to hatred, violence, and even murder?

There is no doubt a widespread number of interpretations, with over 41,000 denominations and sects that profess "Christianity". However, just as assembling a precision component requires an exact way of assembly in order for it to function properly, so likewise of the Bible.

And being the inspired word of god, what was he thinking to have inspired such a mess? It advocates violence, hatred, murder, and even human sacrifice. Many of it's passages are so ambiguous and open to interpretation that as guidelines it would have been better to leave them out. Then there are the many contradictions that leaves one scratching their head. Is god all powerful? Matthew 19:26 says yes, but Judges 1:19 in effect says no.

And on top of all this is the fact that the Bible shows itself to be be outright mistaken about a lot of things. Rabbits don't chew their cud, and the Earth isn't flat, and it's even internally inconsistent. Compare

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
​

But go ahead and believe the Bible is the inspired word of god. But as I said; If it actually is an inspired book of god, then I can only conclude he wasn't all that inspiring to those who jotted it down, OR, he isn't the nice, competent guy Christians like to portray him as.

 

[jaareshiah]

Of course you can pick any point on the continuum of responsibility, but ultimately it comes down to the actual source of all Christianity. The buck stops at the Bible, and to stop short of this and assign Christian hatred, violence, and all the other shortcomings of religious actions on something else is plain dishonest. Lay the blame where it belongs: the Bible. Were the Bible the perfect book of a perfect god then there would be no room for disagreement about its message. But there IS disagreement, which in turn has fostered thousands of denominations of Christianity, which, yes it IS a fact, sometimes harbor animosity toward each other. One would think an omnipotent god could have easily avoided such a sad outcome by inspiring a perfect book of instructions. Alas, it just didn't turn out that way. Gotta wonder why don't you?

Blaming the Bible, without giving it fair justice, is like judging a person based on hearsay without considering the facts. For example, Jesus taught his disciples to have love among themselves, saying: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”(John 13:34, 35) Have the churches put this command into practice ?

Of the churches involvement in World War I, British Brigadier General Frank P. Crozier said: “The Christian Churches are the finest blood-lust creators which we have and of them we made free use.”(A Brass Hat in No Man’s Land, published in 1930)

Historian Ernesto Galli Della Loggia, in the Catholic daily Avvenire, once said even more pointedly: “Religion does not seem to have constructed a unifying framework among men and among peoples, rather the exact opposite. It has been that way for centuries. Not only have the greatest monotheistic religions fought against one another in a war without quarter but some of them—chiefly Christianity and Islam—have dedicated all their strength to exterminating the animist religions of the so-called primitive peoples. This has occurred because religion and political power are two sides of the same coin.”

So-called Christianity has "cuddled up " to the political governments of the "world". Paul Johnson’s History of Christianity (1976) describes the norm during the Nazi regime: “Both churches (the Evangelical Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church), in the main, gave massive support to the regime. . . . Of 17,000 Evangelical pastors, there were never more than fifty serving long terms [for not supporting the Nazi regime] at any one time. Of the Catholics, one bishop was expelled from his diocese, and another got a short term for currency offences.”

As to those who stuck to their principles, Johnson continues: “The bravest were the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who proclaimed their outright doctrinal opposition from the beginning and suffered accordingly. They refused any cooperation with the Nazi state.”

Hence, the churches of Christendom have given only lip service to Jesus words, having completely failed in applying Jesus words to show love toward others, with Catholics killing Catholics and Methodists killing Methodists in times of war, whereas Jehovah's Witnesses "stuck to their principles" of showing love as Jesus commanded, even when it cost them their lives.

Thus, the Bible is not at fault, but rather the failure to follow it's commands, just as person disregards a STOP sign, and hits another vehicle, perhaps injuring someone. Is the STOP sign at fault or the careless driver who failed to heed the sign's instructions ? Put the blame where it rightly belongs, on the churches failure to heed the Bible commands.

Jesus gave an illustration concerning true Christianity that he established, that it would apostasize or "fall away" from the righteous principles he taught: "The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”(Matt 13:24-30)

This illustration explains that true Christianity fell away from closely adhering to Jesus words, which occurred "while men were sleeping" or after the death of the apostles (the last apostle, John, died in about 100 C.E.) introducing distorted and wrong reasoning, promoting false or counterfeit "Christianity". Thence, Jesus gave advanced warning that the pure form of worship, true Christianity, would be cast aside in favor of a phony Christianity.

 

[Skwim]

Blaming the Bible, without giving it fair justice, is like judging a person based on hearsay without considering the facts.

Your simile is quite flawed. All my comments are based on the writings of the book itself and some of the effects it has had. The facts I present are all verifiable. They're in your Bible.

For example, Jesus taught his disciples to have love among themselves, saying: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”(John 13:34, 35) Have the churches put this command into practice ?

Your "for example" here in no way mitigates the facts I presented. I never said the Bible is without its good points, only that all its "bad" points have made it poor example of a book inspired by a perfect, all-loving god. As I said in a previous post, "Truth is, I know of human beings who could have done a better job, Mahatma Gandhi being one of them."

Thus, the Bible is not at fault, but rather the failure to follow it's commands,

Sure it's at fault. There are those such as Fred Phelps who follow the Bible's commands as close as he can. From his web site.

The doctrine of reprobation or God's "HATE" involving eternal retribution or the everlasting punishment of most of mankind in Hell forever (e.g., Leviticus 20:13,23, Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:1-3, Romans 9:11-13, Matthew 7:13,23, John 12:39-40, 1 Peter 2:8, Jude 4, Revelation 13:8, 20:15, 21:27, etc.), and

The certainty that all impenitent sodomites (under the elegant metaphor of "****" as the contraction of *******, fueling the fires of God's wrath) will inevitably go to Hell (e.g., Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Jude 7, etc.).
​

Then there were all the slave holders of the past who used the Bible to justify the vile practice:

They asked who could question the Word of God when it said, "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5), or "tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect" (Titus 2:9).
​

And one cannot forget the Spanish Inquisition, which, justified by the Biblical verse

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you... and he says, 'Let us follow other gods'... That prophet or dreamer must be put to death... You must purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13 )​

prevented Protestantism from gaining a foothold in Spain by putting them to death. And the Papal inquisitions, which took care of heretics such as the Cathars, Waldensians, Beghards, Jews, witches, and clairvoyants, by also seeing that they died.


So, go ahead and sing your praises to Jesus and god, just don't forget that the source of your faith has also led men to hatred, violence, and murder, even right up to 2012. And no amount of tap dancing around the issue will change that. Just as the Bible has inspired lofty notions in man it has also inspired the baser notions. And such a book can hardly be called good. In fact it is meritoriously flawed. Not that many Christians will ever admit to such a heresy, because it's so easy to bury the dirty linen out of sight. Therefore I don't expect you to ever admit to the Bible's faults and the evil it has inspired, but rather you'll go one citing all the feel-good scripture while ignoring the morally reprehensible jaundice that also fills its pages.

 

[jaareshiah]

Your simile is quite flawed. All my comments are based on the writings of the book itself and some of the effects it has had. The facts I present are all verifiable. They're in your Bible.

Your "for example" here in no way mitigates the facts I presented. I never said the Bible is without its good points, only that all its "bad" points have made it poor example of a book inspired by a perfect, all-loving god. As I said in a previous post, "Truth is, I know of human beings who could have done a better job, Mahatma Gandhi being one of them."

Sure it's at fault. There are those such as Fred Phelps who follow the Bible's commands as close as he can. From his web site.

The doctrine of reprobation or God's "HATE" involving eternal retribution or the everlasting punishment of most of mankind in Hell forever (e.g., Leviticus 20:13,23, Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:1-3, Romans 9:11-13, Matthew 7:13,23, John 12:39-40, 1 Peter 2:8, Jude 4, Revelation 13:8, 20:15, 21:27, etc.), and

The certainty that all impenitent sodomites (under the elegant metaphor of "****" as the contraction of *******, fueling the fires of God's wrath) will inevitably go to Hell (e.g., Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Jude 7, etc.).
​

Then there were all the slave holders of the past who used the Bible to justify the vile practice:

They asked who could question the Word of God when it said, "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5), or "tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect" (Titus 2:9).
​

And one cannot forget the Spanish Inquisition, which, justified by the Biblical verse

"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you... and he says, 'Let us follow other gods'... That prophet or dreamer must be put to death... You must purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13 )​

prevented Protestantism from gaining a foothold in Spain by putting them to death. And the Papal inquisitions, which took care of heretics such as the Cathars, Waldensians, Beghards, Jews, witches, and clairvoyants, by also seeing that they died.


So, go ahead and sing your praises to Jesus and god, just don't forget that the source of your faith has also led men to hatred, violence, and murder, even right up to 2012. And no amount of tap dancing around the issue will change that. Just as the Bible has inspired lofty notions in man it has also inspired the baser notions. And such a book can hardly be called good. In fact it is meritoriously flawed. Not that many Christians will ever admit to such a heresy, because it's so easy to bury the dirty linen out of sight. Therefore I don't expect you to ever admit to the Bible's faults and the evil it has inspired, but rather you'll go one citing all the feel-good scripture while ignoring the morally reprehensible jaundice that also fills its pages.

As a working auto technician, I have had individuals try to repair their vehicle without seriously consulting the proper information, only to make a "mess" of the problem or rashly condemning a part without a critical examination. These were hasty in their thinking. So, what "facts" are you saying that is "verifiable" concerning the Bible that it is flawed ?

Oh by the way, to bring Mr Fred Phelps into the discussion is tantamount to asking a person "on the street" how to perform an appendectomy. Mr Phelps has nothing but hate, not love and therefore has done this: "They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort."(Titus 1:16)

Ones like these are full of animosity, not love, and hence is not representative of what the Bible states. It is as Paul stated above, that these ones profess to be Christian, but this is just a facade, not being "approved for good work of any sort." To base the Bible on their disposition is like accepting a "love letter" from a known criminal. These have thrown aside Jesus words on showing genuine love.(John 13:34, 35) Does putting on a surgeon's outfit make a person a surgeon ? Hence, does just professing to be Christian make one a genuine Christian ?

Jesus made this point very clear, that only a "few" would be following the Bible closely, saying: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14)

He further said that many will roam around, saying they are "Christian" but are as "the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering.....inside they are ravenous wolves."(Matt 7:15) Jesus said to look at their "fruits", what "works" they bear, saying: "By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men]."(Matt 7:16-20)

So who are the "few" that would be legitimate in their claim to be Christian, ' producing fine fruit ' ? Who are the ones who are displaying genuine love rather than just putting on a facade ? Jehovah's Witnesses. The facts prove this out. For example, during the Rwandan hate campaign between Tutsi and Hutu in 1994 (that lasted about 100 days), whereby an estimated 1 million persons may have died despite the country of Rwanda being 80 percent Catholic, Jehovah's Witnesses showed genuine love by protecting their "brothers", though they were Tutsi and their "brother" was Hutu or vice versa. These did not allow any form of hate to develop but rather was willing to give protection their "brothers", even at the cost of their lives, showing Christ-like love, remaining totally neutral.

One person said this not long after the conflict: "In the village of Monigi, on the outskirts of Goma, Hutu and Tutsi people no longer attend Christendom’s churches, to avoid ethnic attacks from each other while they are inside the church! Since the majority of refugees have returned to Rwanda, the remaining population in the two neighboring villages know that the only place where Hutu and Tutsi gather peacefully is the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Consequently, many of them have asked for a Bible study.”

 

[Skwim]

So, what "facts" are you saying that is "verifiable" concerning the Bible that it is flawed ?

From my previous post.

"But the Bible is where Christians get to pick the message that validates their needs and beliefs. Don't like gays? There's a passage that supports your hatred. Don't like blacks? There's a passage that supports slavery. Want to kill your wife because you find out she wasn't a virgin on your wedding night? There's a passage for that as well. Want to marry your sister? there's a passage that supports it. Want to drink until you can no longer remember? Go ahead because the Bible supports it. Want to kill gays? Just read Leviticus 20:13, and you have god's blessing. Don't like the local 7-11 doing business on Sunday? Get a Uzi and have fun. Want to sell your daughter as a slave? Go ahead. Want to . . . . . . . . ETC. ETC. ETC."

​

It is flawed in the sense that as a book of love and compassion, which many Christians contend it is, it suggests and even demands vile acts.

Oh by the way, to bring Mr Fred Phelps into the discussion is tantamount to asking a person "on the street" how to perform an appendectomy. Mr Phelps has nothing but hate, not love and therefore has done this: "They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort."(Titus 1:16)

You're really not understanding are you. My point is that there are passages in the Bible that sanction despicable acts, and that some people use them to justify their actions, Fred Phelps being one of them. He HATES homosexuals.

Lev.18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deu. 22:5
"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

Rom. 1: 26-28
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
​

 

[Harvey]

Jesus did create evil, though he gave the universe a chance not to do evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

But he did create evil and then he took the consequences and died. so that he could have a people even closer in unity with him than is possible to be had by even the angels.

We are going to be his bride in love with him, and he will say it was worth it.
God is fair, every one has a chance to be Jesus spouse for eternity, some reject that wnd live selfishly and they will die.
they will be turned to ashes since the universe cannot handle rude people, killers, murderers, adulterers and selfish moguls who steal from the poor.

Soon, soon, the universe will be forever clean.

and all in love with Jesus again.

 

[jaareshiah]

God, by way of being our Creator, has the right to establish moral boundaries for us as his creation and the penalties for violating these. As a father in my home, I have the right to determine where the line is drawn, of what is allowed in my home and what is not.

Would you allow individuals to come into your home and damage it ? Say you have a rule whereby no one can eat in the living room, with you concerned about keeping the carpet clean. But some of your "friends" comes over and disregards your rule, taking food in the living room even though you asked them not to. What would you do ? Continue to allow it or would you ask them to stop and if they did not, ask them to leave ?

Jehovah God has established laws and guidelines to follow and yes, at Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 and Romans 1, he hates the act of homosexuality, not the person, saying that "it (not him or her) is abomination". However, if a person refuses to change, then a penalty must be imposed. Otherwise, chaos would reign and any reasonable person certainly does not want this.

Homosexuality is a deviation of God's moral code which will not be changed for no one. Just as the power of gravity on the earth is precise and any change would seriously affect life on the earth, so likewise concerning, not just homosexuality, but any deviation of the moral boundaries that Jehovah God has established. If your car started to deviate on the highway, causing the car to weave from side to side, what would you do ? Continue driving or have it checked out for your safety ?

And Mr Fred Phelps is not representative of the Bible, for he spews out nothing but hate, not genuine love. You obviously want to continue to focus on him rather than allow the Bible to speak for itself. You unswervingly try to force " a square peg in around hole", making the Bible look as something that is criminal, when in fact it provides the only sound basis for genuine peace on the earth.

With such hate, Fred Phelps cannot assist anyone (nor the any of the churches of Christendom) to intimately know Jehovah God, who is "a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth, preserving loving-kindness for thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but by no means will he give exemption from punishment, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”(Ex 34:6, 7)

Our Creator, Jehovah God, has set in place a moral framework that only benefits those applying it.(Isa 48:17, 18) He will not allow unscrupulous individuals to continue to wreak havoc on his earth, but will remove any and all who turn away from his moral requirements. He created the earth with an everlasting viewpoint, not momentarily, not for selfish motive.

And if a person wants to fully enjoy life forever, then these must learn, love and maintain God's moral bounds, learning to hate the wicked acts just as Jehovah does. Consider the example of a young man brought up in Hermosillo, in Sonora, Mexico. When he was 14 years old, he presented himself as a homosexual and stayed that way for the next 11 years, living with several different men during that time.However, he began to study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses.

He began to undergo a complete metamorphosis, from living a feminine life. His speech, mannerisms, clothing, hairstyle, and the choice of friends all began to change. His former friends began mocking him. He acknowledged that the most difficult things to change were the practices of his immoral lifestyle. He persisted and made the needed transformation, in which the words at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 had a major impact. Now he has put his former lifestyle behind him, knowing that he has put God's moral boundaries in place. He also knows that it is the act of homosexuality that God hates and not the person, for people can and do change.

 

[Harvey]

God let THE WORD JESUS create all things so he officially could take the blame and die for us.
evil was not necessary but freewill made it an option.
God knew sometime it was comming so he made provision.
He paid the penalty,
and we love him
and soon all evil will be destroyed and the universe willl only be love soon.

 

[Skwim]

And Mr Fred Phelps is not representative of the Bible, for he spews out nothing but hate, not genuine love. You obviously want to continue to focus on him rather than allow the Bible to speak for itself. You unswervingly try to force " a square peg in around hole", making the Bible look as something that is criminal, when in fact it provides the only sound basis for genuine peace on the earth.

Talking about the Bible speaking for itself, the Bible speaks the following words:

Zeph 3:17
The LORD, your God, is in your midst, a mighty savior; He will rejoice over you with gladness, and renew you in his love, He will sing joyfully because of you
​

AND

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
​

Why does one passage deserve your attention and approval, and deserves to be heeded, but the other does not? (I assume this is the case.) Or don't you approve of everything god said? A short, two paragraph answer will suffice---I don't bother to read any of the irrelevant polemics you clutter your posts with.

Of course, if you agree with what god commands in Lev. 20:13 I'm a little surprised at your ill feelings toward Phelps. But you can explain in that in two paragraphs or less as well.

 

[jaareshiah]

Talking about the Bible speaking for itself, the Bible speaks the following words:

Zeph 3:17
The LORD, your God, is in your midst, a mighty savior; He will rejoice over you with gladness, and renew you in his love, He will sing joyfully because of you
​

AND

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
​

Why does one passage deserve your attention and approval, and deserves to be heeded, but the other does not? (I assume this is the case.) Or don't you approve of everything god said? A short, two paragraph answer will suffice---I don't bother to read any of the irrelevant polemics you clutter your posts with.

Of course, if you agree with what god commands in Lev. 20:13 I'm a little surprised at your ill feelings toward Phelps. But you can explain in that in two paragraphs or less as well.

Is it not important to understand the context rather than taking words out of context ? Is it not vital that a person come to grasp what true justice is before rashly being condemnatory ? Has not being hasty cost people their lives, as when vigilantes takes the law into their own hands without a thorough judicial examination ?

At Zephaniah 3:17, what is being said ? If a person reads all the of the book of Zephaniah and understood its meaning, then, if this person is truly concerned about justice, these could begin to comprehend the words at Zephaniah 3:17, that our Creator, Jehovah God as a "mighty One", is rejoicing over his "people", saving them during times of "calamity" or "evil", being "joyful over you with happy cries".

This is a joyful time, not one that is solemn, for most in the world have "no shame" regarding the doing of what is bad (Zep 3:5) and therefore God has deemed these ones as to be removed from the earth, saying: "Therefore keep yourselves in expectation of me,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘till the day of my rising up to [the] booty, for my judicial decision is to gather nations, for me to collect together kingdoms, in order to pour out upon them my denunciation, all my burning anger; for by the fire of my zeal all the earth will be devoured.(Zeph 3:8)

His "people" are the ones that are protected and are taught "a pure language" (Zeph 3:9), being able to perceive God's justice as right, and not allowing individuals like Fred Phelps to endanger the earth's global peacefulness in the near future.

And yes, a man that lies down sexually with another man is "an abomination"(Lev 20:13), for this is a perversion of the proper sexual union between a husband and wife.(Prov 5:15-19)

All that God has said is "truth".(John 17:17) Most that condemn the Bible is because they are unable to understand its deep meaning, hence, make rash statements that not true. These often take out of context words or phrases and misapply them or distort them.

Jesus said: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you."(Matt 11:25, 26)

Unless a person is like a "babe", humble and teachable, being reasonable, then even if they are "wise and intellectual", the meaning of the Bible is beyond them.

Jehovah God intentionally made the Bible to be "hidden" from most, permitting only "babes" that allow themselves to be taught by him to understand his word. As Jesus said of the illustrations concerning the "kingdom" at Matthew 13, that only his genuine disciples would be able to fathom their depth of meaning, with everyone else unable to do so.(Matt 13:11; Mark 4:11)

 

[Skwim]

Is it not important to understand the context rather than taking words out of context ? Is it not vital that a person come to grasp what true justice is before rashly being condemnatory ? Has not being hasty cost people their lives, as when vigilantes takes the law into their own hands without a thorough judicial examination ?

At Zephaniah 3:17, what is being said ? If a person reads all the of the book of Zephaniah and understood its meaning, then, if this person is truly concerned about justice, these could begin to comprehend the words at Zephaniah 3:17, that our Creator, Jehovah God as a "mighty One", is rejoicing over his "people", saving them during times of "calamity" or "evil", being "joyful over you with happy cries".

This is a joyful time, not one that is solemn, for most in the world have "no shame" regarding the doing of what is bad (Zep 3:5) and therefore God has deemed these ones as to be removed from the earth, saying: "Therefore keep yourselves in expectation of me,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘till the day of my rising up to [the] booty, for my judicial decision is to gather nations, for me to collect together kingdoms, in order to pour out upon them my denunciation, all my burning anger; for by the fire of my zeal all the earth will be devoured.(Zeph 3:8)

His "people" are the ones that are protected and are taught "a pure language" (Zeph 3:9), being able to perceive God's justice as right, and not allowing individuals like Fred Phelps to endanger the earth's global peacefulness in the near future.

And yes, a man that lies down sexually with another man is "an abomination"(Lev 20:13), for this is a perversion of the proper sexual union between a husband and wife.(Prov 5:15-19)

All that God has said is "truth".(John 17:17) Most that condemn the Bible is because they are unable to understand its deep meaning, hence, make rash statements that not true. These often take out of context words or phrases and misapply them or distort them.

Jesus said: "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes. Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you."(Matt 11:25, 26)

Unless a person is like a "babe", humble and teachable, being reasonable, then even if they are "wise and intellectual", the meaning of the Bible is beyond them.

Jehovah God intentionally made the Bible to be "hidden" from most, permitting only "babes" that allow themselves to be taught by him to understand his word. As Jesus said of the illustrations concerning the "kingdom" at Matthew 13, that only his genuine disciples would be able to fathom their depth of meaning, with everyone else unable to do so.(Matt 13:11; Mark 4:11)

​

SORRY, BUT I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE OF THIS.
​