God does not answer prayers

[Windwalker]

I know you are smart enough to understand an analogy.

In a marriage... is it relational? Yes
Would you call it a transaction? Probably not.
Is it also legal? Yes
Is it a covenant? Yes
Are there requests that are met because of the relational, legal, covenant? Yes

I think what I am trying to say by the word relational, covers more than legal or business relationships. Maybe I dislike the legal verbiage, because it lacks any sense of love. "I am contractually your husband, wife." *Shakes hand politely and then fulfills his duties as husband contractually*. You see my point? I think treating God in legal terms, makes it feel more like a business partnership, than a growing dynamic love.

And so to even come to God with a contractual obligation in mind, sets the whole thing on its ear for me. I'll share what I see. I think this whole legal verbiage is simply a metaphor to try to talk about, to put it simply, stuff that works and stuff that doesn't. It's basically our relationship with Reality, or our discordance with it. God's will, is that which promotes balance and harmony, health and vitality. When we act out of accord with the natural Way, which Christ symbolizes, then we lose balance, harmony, health, and vitality.

The "covenant", is not technically a "legal contract". It's saying, follow the Way, and you will be blessed. I think as a metaphor however, it's badly used in how I hear it. It leave one viewing their relationship with the divine as a legal contract, rather than the Source of their being, the Wellspring of Life.

Paragraph 1

"I want a new wife because the other woman is prettier." Do you think that qualifies? (Which is the point that I was making) But, to give you credit, it is harder on a grey issue of marriage of when it is right and when is it not right.

But on a more black and white issue... God wants people healed. Or, God wants to meet your needs. Or, God wants you to have peace of mind. Etc Etc Etc So, again, if you find a promise - you can be sure He hears you.

I think it comes down to one's sincerity with themselves, and one's intention towards goodness. If some dude is just wanting an upgrade, then he needs to do a little checking under the hood first. Greed and desire are not a spiritual path.

But what I was bringing up before was in response to you saying you find God's will in scripture. What if you're blinded by your own desires, and see what you want to see in it? What if what you see doesn't fit Reality? Have you really found God's will, or your own desires, disguised and justified as God's Will? I wonder how many truly do understand God's will by reading texts? I tend to think it's not found that way, by thought process.

Paragraph 2

I agree, it is more relational and should not be legalistic because it is based on grace and not the law.

When I have heard the term Grace used, it is often in the context of the law, that God's grace let Jesus pay the legal penalty for our transgressions, to that effect. That's still seeing things in a legal context.

When I hear the word Grace, in reference to the Divine, I hear something like how Jesus said God sends the rains on the just and unjust. Rain of course, was considered a blessing ('Lord hear not the prayer of the traveler", goes the old Rabbinic prayer). Grace is there all the time without asking. It is simply a matter of receiving. Our relationship with the Divine Reality, is tactile. It surrounds us. "In him we live and move and have our being". It is energetic. It is absolute. And it is upon all that is.

There is not a legal wrapper around that. That's Grace. It IS. And it is Love to all.

4) Yes, a conscience can guide you. However, would you be able to say there also be people whose conscience have been seared and no long have good judgment?

I remember having these long debates with another member here some few years ago, how you should not trust the heart, and of course cited that passage which says the heart is deceitfully wicked and should not be trusted. The message was, not even if your conscious tells you something is not right, you should ignore that and go by what you read in scripture instead. Would you agree with her on that?

The reason I focused on this is because you say you need to find God's will in scripture, as part of the process or procedure to obtain positive prayer results. How is that done, I ask? It's not from reading the words, as everything that we read is going to pass through the filters of our own minds on it's way towards understanding. We colorize what we hear. What is the checksum? What is the balance? How does one go from reading the words, to finding God in them? It cannot just be reason, is it? It cannot just be luck?

There is a saying "to the pure all things are pure".

I like that saying.

It was a legal payment for sins born out of love. The benefit is that there is forgiveness and relationship available.

Again, this is Grace, viewed in a legal container, not the Divine Light that shines upon all without favor, understanding of Grace. Grace, as a forgiveness for legal debt, is not Divine Grace, in the true sense of the word. It's badly used metaphor from scripture, updated into these terms in the 12th century AD by the Norman Anselm of Canterbury. The metaphor does not work very well applied to God, but it does to a Norman King.

I have a different view of what Christ's sacrifice was, and it is not to pay a blood debt to God. That's a very confusing image of the Divine.

A still small voice can still say to me "You know I said you are supposed to forgive because you are forgiven?" It is is relational but there is a legal aspect to it.

No, you see. I don't see that. It's not legal. You don't forgive because you are supposed to. You forgive because you know what it is like to be forgiven yourself. If we fall back into our old patterns, then you can give yourself a reminder by remembering that. It's not because you are obligated legally to God to do this. You do this because of who you are. "Love is the fulfillment of the law". "Love works no ill". It's about being a transformed human being, not a Christian with a legal contract with God.

Yes... you can be legalistic in your approach if you want.

Me?

 

[nPeace]

God has never answered prayers and will never answer prayers, why so? Ask yourself this, how does God decide to answer prayers?

The statements God has never answered prayers, and will never answer prayers, is a bold statement.
If true, the opposite cannot be true.
If false, the opposite is true.
In this case, if A - God has never answered prayers and will never answer prayers, is true, then B - God has answered prayers and continue to answer prayers, cannot be true.
On the other hand, if B is true, then A is false.

Here we have a mother who prays day and night for her child that has cancer and eventually, the child dies, every day thousands upon thousands children die from horrible diseases. Here we have a young man who prays for finding a good job and he finds his dream job, giving thanks that his prayer was answered, I've read so many testimonies about this. Now, from time to time, we have testimonies of miraculous healings, but ask yourself, why there are so few and not more? This should ring a bell!

It is not God who answer prayers, from my own research, there are two main things when it comes to prayers - your faith and your life journey.

Remember what Jesus used to say to those who healed them? Your faith has saved you!

A question arises, where is God in this equation of prayers? God is the power that manifests the answer to your prayer but the answer does not come from God, it comes from your faith and your life journey. If you have faith and this is part of your life journey, then there's nothing to stop your prayers from being answered.

I am still not sure of the last thing, the life journey, because in my belief, we decide our life journey each moment.

I was thinking that it would depend on which God you were thinking of, because there are many gods that are worshiped.
One writer in the first century, said, ". . .just as there are many gods and many lords, there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are. . . (1 Corinthians 8:5, 6)

I am speaking from the position of the God Paul was referring to - the author of the Bible.

It appears you are making reference to this God, as well, since you mentioned Jesus, and quoted his words found in the Bible.

Hence, I base my answer not on my opinion, but on what is written in the Bible.
The Bible gives a clear answer.

One account I am thinking of, shows that - the God of the Bible, is not like the false gods, that cannot answer.

Contrast

Spoiler: No answer...

(1 Kings 18:26) . . .So they took the young bull that was given to them, prepared it, and kept calling on the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying: “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice and no one answering. . . .

(1 Samuel 14:37) And Saul inquired of God: “Should I go down after the Philistines? Will you give them into the hand of Israel?” But God did not answer him on that day.
(1 Samuel 8:18) The day will come when you will cry out because of the king you have chosen for yourselves, but Jehovah will not answer you in that day.”

Spoiler: Answer...

(1 Kings 18:36-39) 36 About the time when the evening grain offering is presented, Elijah the prophet stepped forward and said: “O Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, today let it be known that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and that it is by your word that I have done all these things. 37 Answer me, O Jehovah! Answer me so that this people may know that you, Jehovah, are the true God and that you are turning their hearts back to you.” 38 At that the fire of Jehovah fell from above and consumed the burnt offering, the pieces of wood, the stones, and the dust, and it licked up the water from the trench. 39 When all the people saw it, they immediately fell facedown and said: “Jehovah is the true God! Jehovah is the true God!”

(Psalm 99:5-8) 5 Exalt Jehovah our God and bow down at his footstool; He is holy. 6 Moses and Aaron were among his priests, And Samuel was among those calling on his name. They would call to Jehovah, And he would answer them. 7 He would speak to them from the pillar of cloud. They kept his reminders and the decree that he gave to them. 8 O Jehovah our God, you answered them. You were a God who pardoned them, But you punished them for their sinful deeds.

There are many times God answered prayers.

We see, the Bible says God answers prayers, but there are conditions, which help us to understand why we always don't get what we expect, because we prayed.

1) We must produce righteous fruit, and acknowledge Jesus Christ's role in God's will - asking in his name.
(John 15:16) You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and keep bearing fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
(John 16:23) . . .if you ask the Father for anything, he will give it to you in my name.

2) Our prayers must be in harmony, or according to God's will
(1 John 5:14) . . .And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us.

Sometimes we get an answer that does not remove our problems, but helps us to cope in wisdom.
(Philippians 4:6, 7) 6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.

Sometimes, because we may be suffering, and calling out to God, expecting immediate relief, we may assume that that is an indication that God does not answer our prayers.
A faithful man, once felt this way, but he learned that he had judged the situation wrong.
(Job 9:16, 17) 16 If I call out to him, will he answer me? I do not believe that he will listen to my voice, 17 For he crushes me with a storm And multiplies my wounds for no reason.
(Job 30:19, 20) 19 God has thrown me down into the mud; I am reduced to dust and ashes. 20 I cry to you for help, but you do not answer me; I stand up, but you just look at me.

Job just did not have the details.
It was a young man, much younger than Job, who corrected his wrong thinking.
(Job 32:6) So Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite began to speak, saying: “I am young And you men are aged. So I respectfully held back, And I dared not tell you what I know.
(Job 33:12, 13) 12 But you are not right in saying this, so I will answer you: God is far greater than mortal man. 13 Why do you complain against Him? Is it because he did not answer all your words?

It was Job's humility, that caused him to listen, and let himself be corrected by a younger man.

I think Job's experience is the perfect lesson for us, and actually the answer as to why we may suffer, and not receive relief, despite our prayers, and it being no fault of our own.

From my personal experience, I can say that these have been in harmony with the scriptures, that God does answer prayers.
Will God answer prayers in the future?
According to the Bible, emphatically, Yes!
(Isaiah 65:24) . . .Even before they call out, I will answer. . .

 

[Kenny]

I think what I am trying to say by the word relational, covers more than legal or business relationships. Maybe I dislike the legal verbiage, because it lacks any sense of love. "I am contractually your husband, wife." *Shakes hand politely and then fulfills his duties as husband contractually*. You see my point? I think treating God in legal terms, makes it feel more like a business partnership, than a growing dynamic love.

And so to even come to God with a contractual obligation in mind, sets the whole thing on its ear for me. I'll share what I see. I think this whole legal verbiage is simply a metaphor to try to talk about, to put it simply, stuff that works and stuff that doesn't. It's basically our relationship with Reality, or our discordance with it. God's will, is that which promotes balance and harmony, health and vitality. When we act out of accord with the natural Way, which Christ symbolizes, then we lose balance, harmony, health, and vitality.

The "covenant", is not technically a "legal contract". It's saying, follow the Way, and you will be blessed. I think as a metaphor however, it's badly used in how I hear it. It leave one viewing their relationship with the divine as a legal contract, rather than the Source of their being, the Wellspring of Life.

OK... I think we are saying the same thing here. Yes, the love is the foundation because faith works by love - not by the legal aspects.

Actually, a covenant has a legal application. When God cut covenant with Abraham, they became one and the legalities was stipulated by God when He said, "Gen. 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." But still love based. Every covenant has statements that are made that we are supposed to uphold (out of love) - "in sickness and in health..." covenant statements

I believe your basic statements are saying the same thing I'm saying... maybe you are saying it better?

Certainly I am not saying that our relationship is just a "legal contract" in the sense that it is only business. What I am saying is that if Jesus said, John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. if we "abide" (love relationship) can't we be assured that the rest of his statement will hold true?

Or if we find a promise that says "If you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive you and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness"... I can't trust that covenant promise?

So, all I'm doing is showing how you can get your prayers answered, not trying to convince someone they can't

I think it comes down to one's sincerity with themselves, and one's intention towards goodness. If some dude is just wanting an upgrade, then he needs to do a little checking under the hood first. Greed and desire are not a spiritual path.

But what I was bringing up before was in response to you saying you find God's will in scripture. What if you're blinded by your own desires, and see what you want to see in it? What if what you see doesn't fit Reality? Have you really found God's will, or your own desires, disguised and justified as God's Will? I wonder how many truly do understand God's will by reading texts? I tend to think it's not found that way, by thought process.

I agree totally with your position here but it doesn't detract from the concept I was sharing. Remember, I quoted the confidence that "If we pray according to His will, He hears us...." Does that sound like "blinded by your own desires?" Of course not, because if we are blinded by our own desires, then we aren't prayer according to His well but rather we are implementing "James 4:3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.".

so I agree.

When I have heard the term Grace used, it is often in the context of the law, that God's grace let Jesus pay the legal penalty for our transgressions, to that effect. That's still seeing things in a legal context.

When I hear the word Grace, in reference to the Divine, I hear something like how Jesus said God sends the rains on the just and unjust. Rain of course, was considered a blessing ('Lord hear not the prayer of the traveler", goes the old Rabbinic prayer). Grace is there all the time without asking. It is simply a matter of receiving. Our relationship with the Divine Reality, is tactile. It surrounds us. "In him we live and move and have our being". It is energetic. It is absolute. And it is upon all that is.

There is not a legal wrapper around that. That's Grace. It IS. And it is Love to all.

Maybe because that is the way you hear it? Why can't it be both? If God paid the legal penalty for our transgressions, doesn't it translate into Him raining on the just and the unjust?

why one and not the other and not both? If God is also a judge (for He judges the hearts) - isn't there a legal connotation to it?

I remember having these long debates with another member here some few years ago, how you should not trust the heart, and of course cited that passage which says the heart is deceitfully wicked and should not be trusted. The message was, not even if your conscious tells you something is not right, you should ignore that and go by what you read in scripture instead. Would you agree with her on that?

The reason I focused on this is because you say you need to find God's will in scripture, as part of the process or procedure to obtain positive prayer results. How is that done, I ask? It's not from reading the words, as everything that we read is going to pass through the filters of our own minds on it's way towards understanding. We colorize what we hear. What is the checksum? What is the balance? How does one go from reading the words, to finding God in them? It cannot just be reason, is it? It cannot just be luck?

We have filters, we colorize what we hear, we read into something what we want to see... no matter what we do.

But again.. why just one and not all? There were things that I began doing because "we are led by the Holy Spirit who teaches us" and then read about it. We are led by our conscience (generally speaking unless you have seared your mind) - which God placed in us so that we know "stealing that toy from the store is not right". We can also learn from reading. Not all things are filtered and what is, surely the Holy Spirit will work through our limitations.

I like that saying.

Again, this is Grace, viewed in a legal container, not the Divine Light that shines upon all without favor, understanding of Grace. Grace, as a forgiveness for legal debt, is not Divine Grace, in the true sense of the word. It's badly used metaphor from scripture, updated into these terms in the 12th century AD by the Norman Anselm of Canterbury. The metaphor does not work very well applied to God, but it does to a Norman King.

I have a different view of what Christ's sacrifice was, and it is not to pay a blood debt to God. That's a very confusing image of the Divine.

OK... we differ in our views but come to the same conclusion.

No, you see. I don't see that. It's not legal. You don't forgive because you are supposed to. You forgive because you know what it is like to be forgiven yourself. If we fall back into our old patterns, then you can give yourself a reminder by remembering that. It's not because you are obligated legally to God to do this. You do this because of who you are. "Love is the fulfillment of the law". "Love works no ill". It's about being a transformed human being, not a Christian with a legal contract with God.

I agree... you don't forgive because you are SUPPOSED to (although you are supposed to) - you forgive because you want to and because you are forgive.

How do you view it when Jesus said " Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. and Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Again... maybe we are saying the same thing

Me?

 

[Trailblazer]

Where do we go? Religion is not the answer, I tried this for years and years, there's truth in religion but it's shaped in such a way that it enslaves the minds of men than to free them...

What religion(s) are you referring to? Do you think it is logical to generalize from some to all religions?

That said, I agree that what man has done to the religion of God can be enslaving.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's true, the vast majority of religious people act like this, I acted like this for years, being at the mercy of my own version of God, my own idea of God. It's quite interesting that in the christian and muslim tradition there's a saying - God will help you only when you start helping yourself.

I wonder where they got that from, though. Unless helping yourself means god's working through you, it's opposed to biblical teachings. No "self" only god.

 

[Trailblazer]

God does nothing for them because the God in whom most people believe is only an idea...

It is not God's responsibility to fix all the problems humans encounter in the material realm of existence. God gave us intelligence and free will to solve our own problems. God might intercede on our behalf but God cannot fix everything for us without upsetting the entire order of the world.

 

[Trailblazer]

I took me some years to learn this, most of us don't believe in God, which can not be defined by human words and concepts, we believe in that which can be defined with human words and concepts, ideas of God! That God is this or that, that God favours this or that, that God hates this and and loves that... that God is jelous, that God takes revange... all of these being human traits... 2000 years later and humanity has not really evolved to a higher state of mind..

Yes, and that is what happens when people read and interpret the Bible stories literally. They anthropomorphize God.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Well, that paralyzed person is an orphan child and was hit by a car when she was around 16 years old, now she is more than 20 and she is still paralyzed, as if life was not hard enough for her, she also had to end up being paralyzed, there's was no wrong from her part, she was just a girl, on a rainy day going to school.

As I said, faith is the main ingredient of prayers being answered! You know, otherwise, Jesus, the Christ, would have not said this - Your faith has saved you!

Ohh.. but I do have an idea and I know very well what I am saying... You see, this is what it happens when people think God does not answer their prayers, they say, it's God's fault, more problems than solution, I say from the early beginning, God does not answer prayers at all, your faith is the one who manifests the answer through God's power.

But the bible "god" is supposed to answer ALL prayers:

John 14:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


John 16:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


Matthew 18:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


John 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, verily i say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Mark 11:24-25
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Yes, and that is what happens when people read and interpret the Bible stories literally. They anthropomorphize God.

You mean like your anthropomorphism of your "god" by claiming he manifested as your Baha'u'lah?

 

[Trailblazer]

But the bible "god" is supposed to answer ALL prayers:

John 14:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


John 16:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


Matthew 18:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


John 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, verily i say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Mark 11:24-25
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

So much for the Bible God.

 

[Trailblazer]

You mean like your anthropomorphism of your "god" by claiming he manifested as your Baha'u'lah?

No, NOTHING like that. A Manifestation of God is not God so God did not become Baha'u'llah.

Manifestations of God possess two stations: one is the physical station pertaining to the world of matter, and the other is the spiritual station, born of the substance of God. In other words, one station is that of a human being, and one, of the Divine Reality. It is because they possess both a human and a divine station that they can act as *mediators* between God and man.

Every Manifestation of God is a mirror of God, reflecting His Self, His Beauty, His Might and Glory. All else besides them are to be regarded as mirrors capable of reflecting the glory of these Manifestations Who are themselves the Primary Mirrors of the Divine Being.

The Manifestations of God are another order of creation above an ordinary man. Their souls had pre-existence in the spiritual world before their bodies were born in this world, whereas the souls of all humans come into being at the moment of conception. The spiritual world is where They get their special powers from God. They possess a universal divine mind that is different than ours and that is why God only speaks to them directly and through Them God communicates to humanity.

 

[nPeace]

But the bible "god" is supposed to answer ALL prayers:

John 14:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


John 16:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


Matthew 18:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


John 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, verily i say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Mark 11:24-25
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

These scriptures show that God does answer prayers... not all prayers though, since Jesus is talking to his friends... not all people.John 15:16

 

[Ancient Soul]

No, NOTHING like that. A Manifestation of God is not God so God did not become Baha'u'llah.

Manifestations of God possess two stations: one is the physical station pertaining to the world of matter, and the other is the spiritual station, born of the substance of God. In other words, one station is that of a human being, and one, of the Divine Reality. It is because they possess both a human and a divine station that they can act as *mediators* between God and man.

Every Manifestation of God is a mirror of God, reflecting His Self, His Beauty, His Might and Glory. All else besides them are to be regarded as mirrors capable of reflecting the glory of these Manifestations Who are themselves the Primary Mirrors of the Divine Being.

The Manifestations of God are another order of creation above an ordinary man. Their souls had pre-existence in the spiritual world before their bodies were born in this world, whereas the souls of all humans come into being at the moment of conception. The spiritual world is where They get their special powers from God. They possess a universal divine mind that is different than ours and that is why God only speaks to them directly and through Them God communicates to humanity.

Nice gobbledygook!!

The one flaw in your claim is like I keep on pointing out, your so-called "messengers" from your "god" can only spout out bombastic gobbledygook that sounds fanciful enough to fool most people, but they NEVER contain anything truly spiritual in nature.

Like your fumbling around here. Now if your so-called "messenger" really had anything spiritual to pass on from god, you would know EXACTLY why prayers are never answered. But lacking such spiritual understanding, because your "messenger" gave you none, all you can do is make up stuff.

But besides all that, you previously claimed:

But they do take on physical bodies and appear to people. God manifested Himself as Jesus and as Baha'u'lah and many others.
But God's Spirit cannot appear because you cannot see Spirit. Logic 101.

So which is it, your "god" manifested himself as your PHYSICAL Baha'u'lah, or he was just a "messenger" passing along some spiritually void gibberish?

You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Ancient Soul]

These scriptures show that God does answer prayers... not all prayers though, since Jesus is talking to his friends... not all people.John 15:16

I missed that. Please point out WHERE it states "not all people" in those verses.

 

[Neuropteron]

This is where I must have been wrong and all those mothers and fathers who pray for their dying children to be saved, we were not meeting God's expectations!! So God must say: Let the child die, I don't care, meet my expectations and maybe then I care!

Is this the God in whom you believe? It's quite interesting, when Jesus helead those sick people, He just healed them, that's it, they had no test to pass and no expectations to meet, the simple act of asking for help was more than enough.

Hi,
The convention is for a petitioner to ask for help in an appropriate manner.
Hardly a beggar begging for bread to feed his family would approach a rich man and disrespectfully demand help without at least saying please, but rather threaten with a curse or slander if he did not comply to satisfy his needs.
Just as there is a convention in society to ask for help so God expects us to approach him with respect and comply to a convention he has laid down to approach him.

Of fundamental importance is knowing who we are making the request to. Who are we praying to ? The sun, moon, nature, Jupiter, Vishna, a sacred cow... or any other so called Gods ?
Will any of these God's answer our prayers? The answer is no! The true God want us to approach him with spirit and truth, this includes knowing who he is.

God's requirements are not that difficult a person that does not want to take a few minutes to inquire of them should not be surprised if God does not take their prayer seriously.
On the other hand there are many that can testify to the words of the psalmist "hearer of prayer, even to you people of all sorts will come".
Cheers.

 

[Trailblazer]

your so-called "messengers" from your "god" can only spout out bombastic gobbledygook that sounds fanciful enough to fool most people,

Do you even understand that what sounds like bombastic gobbledygook TO YOU does not sound that way to EVERYONE and that you do not determine what is bombastic gobbledygook?

but they NEVER contain anything truly spiritual in nature.

But you have something truly spiritual in nature, something BETTER than Jesus and Baha'u'llah?

But lacking such spiritual understanding, because your "messenger" gave you none, all you can do is make up stuff.

And God spoke to you, so you have something better? Why is it better, just because you think so?

So which is it, your "god" manifested himself as your PHYSICAL Baha'u'lah, or he was just a "messenger" passing along some spiritually void gibberish?

You cannot have it both ways.

God did not become a man. I explained that a Manifestation of God is not God. In His innermost reality, He is the Voice of God, but He is also a human.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67

 

[Trailblazer]

I missed that. Please point out WHERE it states "not all people" in those verses.

Please point out WHERE it states "all people" in those verses.

 

[nPeace]

I missed that. Please point out WHERE it states "not all people" in those verses.

You would have to point out where in the Bible it says all people, or that God is supposed to. I could show you where in the Bible God says, and shows he does not listen to, or answer all people. You can see my post in this thread, to start.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Some things just happen on their own.
Ecclesiastes 9:11

(I recently used this Scripture in a funeral talk I gave.)

Whatever trials people endure, living this imperfect life, will be forgotten about when they experience life under God's Kingdom rule in the future, during the Resurrection!
Isaiah 65:17
Matthew 6:9-10
Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Revelation 21:3-4

 

[Hockeycowboy]

But the bible "god" is supposed to answer ALL prayers:

John 14:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


John 16:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


John 14:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


Matthew 18:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


John 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, verily i say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

22 and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.


Mark 11:24-25
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

He answers prayers of those who are obedient to Him. Every Scripture you mention, quotes Jesus talking to his disciples.
They're not everyone.

Isaiah 1:15