God Hurts?

[tomspug]

Does God experience pain, grief, and longing?

I think that a big problem people have with the concept of God is the idea that if there was a God, he would be distant, impersonal, and the source of everyone's problems. What are the implications of a God that has feelings? Do the actions of men cause Him pain? If so, how does He deal with pain?

The human response to pain varies. Typically, a person in pain employs some manner of defense mechanism, adversely affecting relationships. Pain is generally associated with relationships, which is why physical or emotional isolation can be so attractive. This is why I say defense mechanism affect relationships adversely. The defense mechanism tends to defend against relationships.

So if God feels pain, does he defend himself against us? Or would he simply deal with it? What does this say about the character of a God that hurts?

For a little perspective, let's examine the concept of Jesus as the Son of God. Jesus endured physical pain and probably emotional pain as well. According to the Bible, God Himself forsook him when he took on the burden of sin. Was the supposed loneliness of Jesus felt by God as well? Did this cause Him pain?

If God is all-powerful, then why would God allow Himself to endure human pain or even emotional pain?

If God feels pain but does not have a body, what would cause Him pain? If I tell God that I hate Him, does that hurt Him? If I don't talk to Him, are His feelings hurt? To what extent is God affected by our relationship with Him?

If God does have feelings, does this lessen Him? Many people view emotions as a sign of weakness. Does a feeling (even loving) God diminish His power?

Hope there are not too many questions. Just pick the ones that resonate the most.

 

[Wandered Off]

If God is all-powerful, then why would God allow Himself to endure human pain or even emotional pain?

Some good questions. If indeed god is all-powerful, then we could reasonably conclude that all god's pain is voluntary. What that says is anybody's guess, but it seems god must get something desirable out of it.

Pain and desire could be viewed as evidence of need, which raises the same questions. That's why I tend view it as human projection.

 

[Francine]

Does God experience pain, grief, and longing?

Gen.6:[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 

[tomspug]

I was trying to prompt a discussion, not quote the Bible. There is more than one question. IF you believe something, THEN elaborate please.

 

[tomspug]

Some good questions. If indeed god is all-powerful, then we could reasonably conclude that all god's pain is voluntary. What that says is anybody's guess, but it seems god must get something desirable out of it.

Pain and desire could be viewed as evidence of need, which raises the same questions. That's why I tend view it as human projection.

I think it's a reasonable conclusion to say that a feeling God would feel voluntarily. My guess is that it has to do with the idea of trust.

In a relationship, when you love someone that doesn't love you back, you don't retaliate when you experience pain, because you love that person enough to make their own decisions. If you continue to love unconditionally the person that does not love you, that is a HUGE investment of trust on the part of the lover. The decision whether or not the relationship continues is in the hands of the other, because the lover refuses to stop loving (to stop feeling pain, in this example).

This is only one example I could think of. Obviously, love is only one feeling.

Also, if we follow the concept of God being all-powerful, then this pursuit of trust (being completely voluntary) wouldn't be a need. If it is a need, we would have to say that God is NOT all-powerful, I would think.

 

[Phasmid]

If God does have feelings, does this lessen Him? Many people view emotions as a sign of weakness. Does a feeling (even loving) God diminish His power?

I used to think emotions were a sign of weakness... but that's an old cliché. Emotions make you strong... especially love. An emotionless person wont have passion. Think of what you'd do for the ones you love? I imagine there's someone in your life you'd take a bullet for or even be tortured in place of. THAT LOVE IS STRENGTH. Even anger can block all physical pain. Emotional pain is worse than the physical and it can mean a huge change in a person's outlook and make them stronger.

If you were in a foreign country and were wrongly imprisoned and tortured for something you didn't do. But one day you are released, what would get you through it? Trying to block your feelings? No, you'd likely be thinking of family and friends. And what would make you stronger after an even like this? The physical scars certainly wouldn't... but the emotional exercise you just performed would. Without emotions, we're nothing... if God didn't have feelings, all this would be pointless and nothing in the Bible would mean a thing.

 

[Francine]

I was trying to prompt a discussion, not quote the Bible. There is more than one question. IF you believe something, THEN elaborate please.

WHOOPS! You can join Katzpur in the eternal penalty box for committing the same foul.

 

[eXiled]

We're supposed to love God, though... but isn't that love derived from fear? Is that true love?

So are we supposed to believe that God is afraid of something?

 

[Storm]

Does God experience pain, grief, and longing?

I believe it does, through us. Also pleasure, joy, and contentment.

I am an aspect of God. My thoughts, emotions, and actions are ultimately God's. Just like everyone and everything else.

I could go on, but I think I'll wait for a response first.

 

[tomspug]

I believe it does, through us. Also pleasure, joy, and contentment.

I am an aspect of God. My thoughts, emotions, and actions are ultimately God's. Just like everyone and everything else.

I could go on, but I think I'll wait for a response first.

So if our pain is God's pain, then how do we satisfy it? From my perspective, there is order to the universe, so for every negative consequence there is a positive choice that can restore order and meaning.

How do we stop pain? Or does God want to end pain?

 

[tomspug]

We're supposed to love God, though... but isn't that love derived from fear? Is that true love?

So are we supposed to believe that God is afraid of something?

I'm not sure which point you're responding to. In the context of this topic, I'm not sure how to respond because I could take your point multiple ways. Fear of what? Punishment, loss, death?

 

[michel]

Sure God feels pain (I believe); he hurts if we hurt one of his - and that doesn't conflict with him being all powerful, nor say anything about his letting himself hurt; we have free will, and I am sure that just as I hurt when I see my cat catch a bird, I am sure God hurts when I harm someone.

 

[Storm]

So if our pain is God's pain, then how do we satisfy it? From my perspective, there is order to the universe, so for every negative consequence there is a positive choice that can restore order and meaning.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting at here. Rephrase, please?

How do we stop pain?

Perhaps by evolving beyond the need to inflict it upon ourselves.

Or does God want to end pain?

I don't presume to know what God wants. I do, however, believe that pain is ultimately beneficial.

 

[tomspug]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting at here. Rephrase, please?

I guess what I'm asking is if pain is something that CAN be fixed, and if so would it be ourselves or God who would do it.

Perhaps by evolving beyond the need to inflict it upon ourselves.

I don't presume to know what God wants. I do, however, believe that pain is ultimately beneficial.

I think it's a great theory to trust in the evolutionary process. However, I see no evidence that humanity has solved any of the problems it had thousands of years ago. We do not have less war, less disease, or less unhappiness. But hey, maybe we'll strike lucky in the next decade.

 

[Storm]

I guess what I'm asking is if pain is something that CAN be fixed,

Not fixed, overcome.

and if so would it be ourselves or God who would do it.

There's no diference from my perspective.

I think it's a great theory to trust in the evolutionary process. However, I see no evidence that humanity has solved any of the problems it had thousands of years ago. We do not have less war, less disease, or less unhappiness. But hey, maybe we'll strike lucky in the next decade.

1) You're impatient. Look at how long it took for sapient life to evolve so that such problems could be explored at all. I don't expect any major breakthroughs within our lifetime.

2) I'm not referring to human evolution here, but God's. The human race is just one aspect, which may well be abandoned as God evolves.

 

[Mr. Hair]

I think that a big problem people have with the concept of God is the idea that if there was a God, he would be distant, impersonal, and the source of everyone's problems.

To quote the esteemed Karen Armstrong;

One day the Gestapo hanged a child. Even the SS were disturbed by the prospect of hanging a young boy in front of thousands of spectators. The child who, Weisel recalled, had the face of a 'sad-eyed angel', was silent, lividly pale and almost calm as he ascended the gallows. Behind Weisel, one of the prisoners asked: 'Where is God? Where is He?' It took the child half an hour to die, while the prisoners were forced to look him in the face. The same man asked again: 'Where is God now?' And Weisel heard a voice within him make the answer: 'Where is He? Here He is - He is hanging here on this gallows.'

If God is all-powerful, then why would God allow Himself to endure human pain or even emotional pain?

One of the central themes, perhaps even the central theme, of most mystical traditions within Judaism were that of God voluntarily restricting and limiting Himself. He has seperated Himself from Himself to create, and as a means of self-emptyingly loving that creation. During this process, however, a part of God fragmented and became lost within creation. God thus shares in our sense of dislocation and suffering, and is as dependent upon mankind to restore the divine order as we are upon Him.

These approaches were undoubtedly formed largely as a response to the continual exile and segregation of the various Jewish communities, and so I think in this case the question is really "Why would humans allow God to endure human pain?"