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God in sikhism more loving than Christian God

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
Yes, I have another idea

There is 1 God. Different people attribute different aspects to the same God

This does not change the God, just the opinion of the people differs

Don't forget it were humans who wrote down the Scriptures

So, I would say that the Sikhs are more loving than the Christians according to what you said
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Yes, I have another idea

There is 1 God. Different people attribute different aspects to the same God

This does not change the God, just the opinion of the people differs

Don't forget it were humans who wrote down the Scriptures

So, I would say that the Sikhs are more loving than the Christians according to what you said
Yes I agree with you about God. There are many paths to God. All religions points to the same Source, God.

Yes sikhs seems more loving.

It is frustrating Christianity do not believe in reincarnation. Without it God seems less loving.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
the comparison is damning with faint praise.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
@Meandflower Sikhism is a religion that I, personally, have a great deal of 'time' for.

I had the pleasure of reading the Granth in my late teens - as a young Catholic - courtesy of a Sikh friend at my school. He kindly explained to me that it was his 'living Guru'.

In my opinion, Guru Nanak the faith's founder in the fifteenth century, was a progressive religious theorist and mystic - relative to the time in which he lived. He adopted a fairly universalist approach, reflected in the fact that the Guru Granth Sahib ji (the scripture of Sikhi) has 'canonised' poems from Hindu and Sufi sages, such as Bhagat Kabir, in addition to just the literary compositions of the Gurus.

One of my favourite sayings from the Granth:


ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥

Gurmaṯī āp pacẖẖāṇi▫ā rām nām pargās.

Follow the Guru's Teachings,
and recognize your own self;
the Divine Light of the Lord's Name shall shine within.

Is expressive of the inherent mysticism at the heart of this 'path'. Likewise, two words: "Hukam" (the 'will' of God) and "Naam" (the 'Name' of God upon which the worshipper meditates) have lingered in my memory all these years later.

So needless to say, you are not going to find me engaging in a comparative exercise on this thread, in an effort to prove that Christianity's conception of God and salvation is 'more' loving or beneficent than the Sikh equivalent.

With all that being said, I do think your understanding of Christian doctrine is rather in need of 'ripening', because your OP is effectively a caricature of what the Christian tradition teaches - one that seems particularly beholden (I have to say) to traditional Protestant salvation theology.

Catholics like myself believe in an intermediate, post-mortem state of purification 'between' heaven and hell.

Arguably, this has many of the 'benefits' that a belief in samsara offers (the cycle of birth and rebirth, I know our Dharmic friends see it as something that must be escaped from), in terms of making provision for a less draconian view of the soul's ultimate fate, than would a mere binary "one life, one chance = heaven or hell" - without needing to fear that one is bound to endless re-becoming or reincarnation in the flesh.

I'm talking, of course, about "purgatory".

Our church has only ever recognised 'saints' through the canonization process - that is, she has declared that "so-and-so" is a redeemed soul in heaven now enjoying the eternal beatific vision of God. On the contrary, mother church has not declared that any human being is actually in the state of eternal damnation - hell may be 'empty', as the most famous Catholic theologian of the 20th century Hans Urs Von Balthasar speculated.

That is a perfectly legitimate position for a Catholic to hold since we only have to believe that hell (which the church defines not as a burning furnace but rather as a freely chosen state of total self-exclusion from God) is a genuine possibility.

Likewise, you refer to 'mortal sin': the church doesn't state definitively that anyone is in mortal sin. She merely identifies certain acts as constituting 'grave matter' in the objective sense - without casting any judgment upon the 'heart', knowledge, intention or whatever of the objectively sinning person.

St. Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510), renowned for the important theological insights set forth in her Treatise on Purgatory, experienced purgatory in this life for 25 years (during which she also found herself in synergy with the departed souls in the afterlife purgatory and had visions of them, according to her works):


Catholic Treasury | Treatise on Purgatory


"This holy soul, while still in the flesh, was placed in the purgatory of the burning love of God, in whose flames she was purified from every stain, so that when she passed from this life she might be ready to enter the presence of God, her most sweet love.

By means of that flame of love she comprehended in her own soul the condition of the souls of the faithful in purgatory, where they are purified from the rust and stain of sins, from which they have not been cleansed in this world.

And as in the purgatory of that divine flame she was united with the divine love and satisfied with all that was accomplished in her, she was enabled to comprehend the state of the souls in purgatory.

"The soul”, Catherine says, “presents itself to God still bound to the desires and suffering that derive from sin and this makes it impossible for it to enjoy the beatific vision of God

After life on earth the soul remains confirmed, either in good or in evil. Hence the souls in purgatory are confirmed in grace…The souls in purgatory have perfect conformity with the will of God…Hell and purgatory manifest the wonderful wisdom of God.

The separated soul goes naturally to its own state. The soul in the state of sin, finding no place more suitable, throws itself of its own accord into hell. And the soul which is not yet ready for divine union, casts itself voluntarily into purgatory. Heaven has no gates. Whoever will can enter there, because God is all goodness. But the divine essence is so pure that the soul, finding in itself obstacles, prefers to enter purgatory, and there to find in mercy the removal of the impediment
…”
(The Doctrine of Catherine of Genoa).​


So, I don't see it as a matter of "and/or".

For some people, who have died in a state of grace (that is, without any serious violations of conscience - and conscience must be formed individually by each person), their purgatorial journey is not yet complete on earth. They need 'time' - although not in the sense of terrestrial time - to reckon with the life just lived and heal from the leftover psychological pain, regret and sorrow for things they got wrong, perhaps with the ability to see experiences from the perspective of the "other person" or other people they might have wronged or misunderstood in some way.

Heaven, Purgatory and Hell are spiritual states of being (as opposed to physical locations) that occupy no location in space and are even apart from time as well, with the souls of the deceased thought (according to time-honoured, theological speculation) to exist in something mysterious called “aeviternity”.

It entails a mode of existence which is a form of “participated eternity". It lies between the timelessness of God and the temporal experience of material beings - to us, for all intents and purposes, it is akin to “no-time” - although this isn't strictly true. One can legitimately hope that most human beings will first undergo purgatory after death, since it seems apparent to the majority of theologians that a sizeable chunk of humanity is neither wilfully evil nor particularly saintly.

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI expressed the same point in his 2007 encyclical Spe Salvi:


Spe salvi (November 30, 2007) | BENEDICT XVI


The fire of Purgatory which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away…

It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace…

46. With death, our life-choice becomes definitive—our life stands before the judge. Our choice, which in the course of an entire life takes on a certain shape, can have a variety of forms. There can be people who have totally destroyed their desire for truth and readiness to love, people for whom everything has become a lie, people who have lived for hatred and have suppressed all love within themselves. This is a terrifying thought, but alarming profiles of this type can be seen in certain figures of our own history. In such people all would be beyond remedy and the destruction of good would be irrevocable: this is what we mean by the word Hell. On the other hand there can be people who are utterly pure, completely permeated by God, and thus fully open to their neighbours—people for whom communion with God even now gives direction to their entire being and whose journey towards God only brings to fulfilment what they already are.

46. Yet we know from experience that neither case is normal in human life. For the great majority of people—we may suppose—there remains in the depths of their being an ultimate interior openness to truth, to love, to God. In the concrete choices of life, however, it is covered over by ever new compromises with evil—much filth covers purity, but the thirst for purity remains and it still constantly re-emerges from all that is base and remains present in the soul.

It would go against God’s mercy to cast them into hell, but it would go against his justice for them to enter heaven straight away with such stains covering their souls. The answer is clear: they must first be purified. Thus, we hear the Savior’s warning that “you will not be released until you have paid the last penny” (Matthew 5:26). This process of purification is called purgatory for it is a purgation, a cleansing, of the soul.

We speak of the pain of the fire of Purgatory because Saint Paul tells us we will be saved, “but only as through fire” (I Corinthians 3:15). What is this fire, if not the fire of divine love?

Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms us and frees us, allowing us to become fully ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives becomes evident to us, there lies salvation.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
@Meandflower Sikhism is a religion that I, personally, have a great deal of 'time' for.

I had the pleasure of reading the Granth in my late teens - as a young Catholic - courtesy of a Sikh friend at my school. He kindly explained to me that it was his 'living Guru'.

In my opinion, Guru Nanak the faith's founder in the fifteenth century, was a progressive religious theorist and mystic - relative to the time in which he lived. He adopted a fairly universalist approach, reflected in the fact that the Guru Granth Sahib ji (the scripture of Sikhi) has 'canonised' poems from Hindu and Sufi sages, such as Bhagat Kabir, in addition to just the literary compositions of the Gurus.

One of my favourite sayings from the Granth:


ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਪਰਗਾਸੁ ॥

Gurmaṯī āp pacẖẖāṇi▫ā rām nām pargās.

Follow the Guru's Teachings,
and recognize your own self;
the Divine Light of the Lord's Name shall shine within.

Is expressive of the inherent mysticism at the heart of this 'path'. Likewise, two words: "Hukam" (the 'will' of God) and "Naam" (the 'Name' of God upon which the worshipper meditates) have lingered in my memory all these years later.

So needless to say, you are not going to find me engaging in a comparative exercise on this thread, in an effort to prove that Christianity's conception of God and salvation is 'more' loving or beneficent than the Sikh equivalent.

With all that being said, I do think that your understanding of Christian doctrine is rather surface-level and in need of 'ripening', because your OP is effectively a caricature of what the Christian tradition teaches - one that seems particularly beholden (I have to say) to traditional Protestant salvation theology.

Catholics like myself believe in an intermediate, post-mortem state of purification 'between' heaven and hell.

Arguably, this has many of the 'benefits' that a belief in samsara offers (the cycle of birth and rebirth, I know our Dharmic friends see it as something that must be escaped from), in terms of making provision for a less draconian view of the soul's ultimate fate, than would a mere binary "one life, one chance = heaven or hell" - without needing to fear that one is bound to endless re-becoming or reincarnation in the flesh.

I'm talking, of course, about "purgatory".

Our church has only ever recognised 'saints' through the canonization process - that is, she has declared that "so-and-so" is a redeemed soul in heaven now enjoying the eternal beatific vision of God. On the contrary, mother church has not declared that any human being is actually in the state of eternal damnation - hell may be 'empty', as the most famous Catholic theologian of the 20th century Hans Urs Von Balthasar speculated.

That is a perfectly legitimate position for a Catholic to hold since we only have to believe that hell (which the church defines not as a burning furnace but rather as a freely chosen state of total self-exclusion from God) is a genuine possibility.

Likewise, you refer to 'mortal sin': the church doesn't state definitively that anyone is in mortal sin. She merely identifies certain acts as constituting 'grave matter' in the objective sense - without casting any judgment upon the 'heart', knowledge, intention or whatever of the objectively sinning person.

St. Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510), renowned for the important theological insights set forth in her Treatise on Purgatory, experienced purgatory in this life for 25 years (during which she also found herself in synergy with the departed souls in the afterlife purgatory and had visions of them, according to her works):


Catholic Treasury | Treatise on Purgatory


"This holy soul, while still in the flesh, was placed in the purgatory of the burning love of God, in whose flames she was purified from every stain, so that when she passed from this life she might be ready to enter the presence of God, her most sweet love.

By means of that flame of love she comprehended in her own soul the condition of the souls of the faithful in purgatory, where they are purified from the rust and stain of sins, from which they have not been cleansed in this world.

And as in the purgatory of that divine flame she was united with the divine love and satisfied with all that was accomplished in her, she was enabled to comprehend the state of the souls in purgatory.

"The soul”, Catherine says, “presents itself to God still bound to the desires and suffering that derive from sin and this makes it impossible for it to enjoy the beatific vision of God

After life on earth the soul remains confirmed, either in good or in evil. Hence the souls in purgatory are confirmed in grace…The souls in purgatory have perfect conformity with the will of God…Hell and purgatory manifest the wonderful wisdom of God.

The separated soul goes naturally to its own state. The soul in the state of sin, finding no place more suitable, throws itself of its own accord into hell. And the soul which is not yet ready for divine union, casts itself voluntarily into purgatory. Heaven has no gates. Whoever will can enter there, because God is all goodness. But the divine essence is so pure that the soul, finding in itself obstacles, prefers to enter purgatory, and there to find in mercy the removal of the impediment
…”
(The Doctrine of Catherine of Genoa).​


So, I don't see it as a matter of "and/or".

For some people, who have died in a state of grace (that is, without any serious violations of conscience - and conscience must be formed individually by each person), their purgatorial journey is not yet complete on earth. They need 'time' - although not in the sense of terrestrial time - to reckon with the life just lived and heal from the leftover psychological pain, regret and sorrow for things they got wrong, perhaps with the ability to see experiences from the perspective of the "other person" or other people they might have wronged or misunderstood in some way.

Heaven, Purgatory and Hell are spiritual states of being (as opposed to physical locations) that occupy no location in space and are even apart from time as well, with the souls of the deceased thought (according to time-honoured, theological speculation) to exist in something mysterious called “aeviternity”.

It entails a mode of existence which is a form of “participated eternity". It lies between the timelessness of God and the temporal experience of material beings - to us, for all intents and purposes, it is akin to “no-time” - although this isn't strictly true. One can legitimately hope that most human beings will first undergo purgatory after death, since it seems apparent to the majority of theologians that a sizeable chunk of humanity is neither wilfully evil nor particularly saintly.

His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI expressed the same point in his 2007 encyclical Spe Salvi:


Spe salvi (November 30, 2007) | BENEDICT XVI


The fire of Purgatory which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away…

It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace…

46. With death, our life-choice becomes definitive—our life stands before the judge. Our choice, which in the course of an entire life takes on a certain shape, can have a variety of forms. There can be people who have totally destroyed their desire for truth and readiness to love, people for whom everything has become a lie, people who have lived for hatred and have suppressed all love within themselves. This is a terrifying thought, but alarming profiles of this type can be seen in certain figures of our own history. In such people all would be beyond remedy and the destruction of good would be irrevocable: this is what we mean by the word Hell. On the other hand there can be people who are utterly pure, completely permeated by God, and thus fully open to their neighbours—people for whom communion with God even now gives direction to their entire being and whose journey towards God only brings to fulfilment what they already are.

46. Yet we know from experience that neither case is normal in human life. For the great majority of people—we may suppose—there remains in the depths of their being an ultimate interior openness to truth, to love, to God. In the concrete choices of life, however, it is covered over by ever new compromises with evil—much filth covers purity, but the thirst for purity remains and it still constantly re-emerges from all that is base and remains present in the soul.

It would go against God’s mercy to cast them into hell, but it would go against his justice for them to enter heaven straight away with such stains covering their souls. The answer is clear: they must first be purified. Thus, we hear the Savior’s warning that “you will not be released until you have paid the last penny” (Matthew 5:26). This process of purification is called purgatory for it is a purgation, a cleansing, of the soul.

We speak of the pain of the fire of Purgatory because Saint Paul tells us we will be saved, “but only as through fire” (I Corinthians 3:15). What is this fire, if not the fire of divine love?

Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms us and frees us, allowing us to become fully ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives becomes evident to us, there lies salvation.

Nobody is going to read all
that preschin'
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Also @Meandflower, it may interest you to know that a belief in bodily "reincarnation" is evidenced in the literature of a number of second century Ante-Nicene sects of Christianity (some of them, like the Valentinians were very numerous and had many adherents).

We learn from the patristic writings of the Church Fathers and heresiologists of the Ante-Nicene period (100 - 325 CE) about some very early Christian sects, which - in contrast to the stance of the "proto-orthodox" Catholics, which is summarised in the Epistle to the Hebrews in the New Testament: "it is appointed for mortals to die once, and after that the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27) - did believe in "reincarnation".

The Valentinian gnostic Christians, for instance, were a group of mystics who nominally belonged to the proto-orthodox Catholic Church and received its sacraments at conventional 'mass' gatherings, but would then gather together in conventicle to teach what they deemed to be 'higher' spiritual (pneumatic) truths, hidden from the minds of their fellow 'psychical' Christian brothers.

These disciples of Valentinus were believers in metempsychosis (Greek word for rebirth coined by Pythagoras).

The Apocryphon of John is an early Sethian gnostic Christian text which advents to this kind of doctrine of 'samsara': "This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again." (Secret Book of John 14:20). This presupposes that if one does not 'follow' another soul in whom God's spirit dwells (i.e. Jesus Christ) in order to be 'saved', then the alternative is to be 'thrust' once more into embodied flesh.

And their biblical justification for believing in it was dependent upon the exact same verse of the New Testament that Catholic theologians still employ today in defending our doctrine of purgatory as scripturally warranted; namely Jesus's Parable of the Last Mite or Penny (Matthew 5:26), which Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI cited in his encyclical Spe Salvi as quoted in my previous post.

However, some of these pre-Nicene Christian 'reincarnationists' had their very own 'unique' riff on the concept, which would likely surprise our Dharmic friends - at least, in terms of what the doctrine of salvation/liberation from 're-becoming' entailed for them in practical terms. You see these Christians were antinomian 'libertines'.

The Carpocratains of the early second century, were particularly successful proponents of the doctrine of reincarnation in a Christian guise. We are informed by St, Irenaeus of Lyons that their leader in Rome, a female prophetess named Marcellina, "led multitudes astray":


Marcellina (gnostic) - Wikipedia


Marcellina was an early Christian Carpocratian religious leader in the mid-second century AD known primarily from the writings of Irenaeus and Origen. She originated in Alexandria, but moved to Rome during the episcopate of Anicetus (c. 157 – 168). She attracted large numbers of followers and founded the Carpocratian sect of Marcellians.

Although the Marcellians identified themselves as "gnostics", many modern scholars do not classify them as members of the sect of Gnosticism. According to David Brakke, the reason why Marcellina and the members of her school identified themselves as "Gnostics" was not as a sectarian identification with the branch of early Christianity known as "Gnosticism",[19] but rather as an epithet for "the ideal or true Christian, the one whose acquaintance with God has been perfected".[20]

As a Carpocratian, Marcellina taught the doctrine of antinomianism, or libertinism,[5][6] which holds that only faith and love are necessary to attain salvation and that all other perceived requirements, especially obedience to laws and regulations, are unnecessary.[5][6] She, like other Carpocratians, believed that the soul must follow the path to redemption, possibly going through many incarnations.[5][6] The goal of the believer is the escape from the cycle of reincarnation by ascending through several stages of deification.[6]

One of the foundational teachings of the Carpocratians was the idea of social egalitarianism, which advocated equality for all people.[8][6] Marcellina's position as the leader of the Carpocratian community in Rome indicates that, for her community at least, this was an idea which was meant to be literally implemented.[8] Some Carpocratians, possibly including Marcellina, held all property in common and shared sexual partners.[6] They also celebrated a form of agape feast.[6]



(continued...)
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Here is what. St. Irenaeus has to say on the Carpocratians. See the bolded parts pertaining to their doctrine of reincarnation:



CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, I.25 (St. Irenaeus)


Carpocrates, again, and his followers maintain that the world and the things which are therein were created by angels greatly inferior to the unbegotten Father.

They also hold that Jesus was the son of Joseph, and was just like other men, with the exception that he differed from them in this respect, that inasmuch as his soul was steadfast and pure, he perfectly remembered those things which he had witnessed within the sphere of the unbegotten God.

On this account, a power descended upon him from the Father, that by means of it he might escape from the creators of the world; and they say that it, after passing through them all, and remaining in all points free, ascended again to him, and to the powers, which in the same way embraced like things to itself...

So unbridled is their madness, that they declare they have in their power all things which are irreligious and impious, and are at liberty to practise them; for they maintain that things are evil or good, simply in virtue of human opinion.


They deem it necessary, therefore, that by means of transmigration from body to body, souls should have experience of every kind of life as well as every kind of action (unless, indeed, by a single incarnation, one may be able to prevent any need for others, by once for all, and with equal completeness, doing all those things which we dare not either speak or hear of, nay, which we must not even conceive in our thoughts, nor think credible, if any such thing is mooted among those persons who are our fellow citizens), in order that, as their writings express it, their souls, having made trial of every kind of life, may, at their departure, not be wanting in any particular.

It is necessary to insist upon this, lest, on account of some one thing being still wanting to their deliverance, they should be compelled once more to become incarnate...


Again, they interpret these expressions of Christ, "You shall not go out thence until you pay the very last farthing", as meaning that no one can escape from the power of those angels who made the world, but that he must pass from body to body, until he has experience of every kind of action which can be practised in this world, and when nothing is longer wanting to him, then his liberated soul should soar upwards to that God who is above the angels, the makers of the world. In this way also all souls are saved, whether their own which, guarding against all delay, participate in all sorts of actions during one incarnation, or those, again, who, by passing from body to body, are set free, on fulfilling and accomplishing what is requisite in every form of life into which they are sent, so that at length they shall no longer be [shut up] in the body.

5. And thus, if ungodly, unlawful, and forbidden actions are committed among them, I can no longer find ground for believing them to be such. And in their writings we read as follows, the interpretation which they give [of their views], declaring that:

"Jesus spoke in a mystery to His disciples and apostles privately, and that they requested and obtained permission to hand down the things thus taught them, to others who should be worthy and believing. We are saved, indeed, by means of faith and love; but all other things, while in their nature indifferent, are reckoned by the opinion of men — some good and some evil, there being nothing really evil by nature

"Jesus spoke in a mystery to His disciples and apostles privately, and that they requested and obtained permission to hand down the things thus taught them, to others who should be worthy and believing. We are saved, indeed, by means of faith and love; but all other things, while in their nature indifferent, are reckoned by the opinion of men — some good and some evil, there being nothing really evil by nature"...

From among these also arose Marcellina, who came to Rome under [the episcopate of] Anicetus, and, holding these doctrines, she led multitudes astray. They style themselves Gnostics. They also possess images, some of them painted, and others formed from different kinds of material; while they maintain that a likeness of Christ was made by Pilate at that time when Jesus lived among them...

More on this from scholars:


Carpocratian | Gnostic sect


Carpocratian, follower of Carpocrates, a 2nd-century Christian Gnostic...

Carpocratians revered Jesus not as a redeemer but as an ordinary man whose uniqueness flowed from the fact that his soul had not forgotten that its origin and true home was within the sphere of the unknown perfect God. In other words, Jesus was to them a fellow Gnostic and as such a model for imitation.

The Carpocratians have been called libertine Gnostics because they contended that the attainment of transcendent freedom depended on having every possible experience, sinful or otherwise. Such an array of experiences normally required more than one lifetime, so the Carpocratians espoused the doctrine of the transmigration of souls, perhaps inspired by Indian or Pythagorean beliefs.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Nobody is going to read all
that preschin'

It's called comprehensively answering a question, with relevant authorities, in a thread about my religion's conception of God and the afterlife versus another religion's conception of God and the afterlife, directed towards the OP (who happens to be a different person from you).

No one has obliged you to read anything that I write, so please feel free to overlook it by all means.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
It's called comprehensively answering a question, with relevant authorities, in a thread about my religion's conception of God and the afterlife versus another religion's conception of God and the afterlife, directed towards the OP (who happens to be a different person from you).

No one has obliged you to read anything that I write, so please feel free to overlook it by all means.

Whatevs
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It's called comprehensively answering a question, with relevant authorities, in a thread about my religion's conception of God and the afterlife versus another religion's conception of God and the afterlife, directed towards the OP (who happens to be a different person from you).

No one has obliged you to read anything that I write, so please feel free to overlook it by all means.

Helpful hint. Put your point and/or question at the beginning and/or end of your post since most people skip or scan.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
That’s one way to read Christianity, but not the only valid way.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
....
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

Or, perhaps it is so that those who are not righteous, don’t want to be that ever, which why no need to allow evil to continue forever. I believe God knows well enough not to let this lesson to continue forever.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
This is not the only — or even most relevant — Christian perspective. In two parables is succinctly stated a theological stance that effectively rebuts the OP: the parable of the prodigal, and the parable of the good Shepherd. In the first, the father waits and watches until the wayward son returns. In the second, the shepherd searches with all his resources until the lost sheep is found. These not only illustrate the unconditional love God has for the human family, but also state that there’s no time limit for salvation.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Or, perhaps it is so that those who are not righteous, don’t want to be that ever, which why no need to allow evil to continue forever. I believe God knows well enough not to let this lesson to continue forever.
The hopeful among us don’t write off lives so callously. We believe that, in God’s time, all will turn to the absolute beauty that is God.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
God in sikhism seems more loving than the Christian God. In sikhism God give his children many chances to learn and grow because sikhism believe in reincarnation.
But in Christianity God give his children only one lifetime and if you fail you are sentenced to eternal hell or annihilation.

So the sikhism God is uconditional loving, but the Christian God is not...

What do you think about what i wrote now? Some thoughts?
I think you are describing the "Christianity" that was founded on apostate Christians.
The Christians of the first century - the followers of Jesus, believed none of this.
They believe what Jesus taught, and what was taught by the prophets... which is, that all people will get a second chance.
It is only the ones who do not want that life, that will not be there.

(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

(Acts 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.
 
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