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God is 1 vs God is 3

jtartar

Well-Known Member
I've been studying the New Testament and it is becoming clear to me that the trinity is not a biblical concept. It actually resembles a pagan Roman concept. You will not find the word "trinity" anywhere in the Bible, nor is it implied. In fact, the New Testament seems to confirm the theme of the old Jewish books. That God is one.

Now, when a scribe asked Jesus what is the FIRST COMMANDMENT, what did Jesus say?

Mark:12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Now let's analyze this situation. This is a SCRIBE! A scribe is a learned man. Scribes were rare and the highly educated ones in those days. So why is a scribe asking Jesus a question that any 8 year old Jewish boy could have answered a thousand years earlier? Because he wanted to make sure Jesus was not claiming to be God and that he was still teaching the most important Jewish teaching of all. That God is ONE!

And what did Jesus say?
That God is indeed ONE.
Jesus said the very first commandment of all is that God is ONE. But if you ask most modern day Christians what THEIR first commandment is. They will tell you God is THREE!

Worshipping anyone other than God (Jesus included) is breaking the most important commandment of all. I have yet to find any evidence that Jesus asked to be worshipped. In fact, he himself worshipped the creator. So anyone who believes in the trinity and worships Jesus, please explain what verses or teachings you are using to justify this belief.

Aamer,
To my mind the Trinity teaching is about the most Blasphemous teaching in the entire Bible. Jesus is called a Mighty God at Isaiah 9:6. You could put 1000 Zillion Mighty gods and they couldn't hold a candle to ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, and Jesus would be the first to agree with that. That is why Jesus worshipped Jehovah God and prayed to Him very often, even with tears and sweat flowing like blood, Luke 22:44, Heb 5:7. Jesus said on one occasion: I publicly praise you Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, Luke 10:21.
Jesus said; this means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of You the only True God, and the one You sent forth, Jesus Christ.
One thing to remember, Jesus was made lower than the angels, Heb 2:9. If Jesus was God what kept Satan from taking control of the Universe, and what kept Satan from taking complete control when Jesus was dead for parts of three days???
Jesus said that the Father was the reason for him living, John 6:57, that God was greater thatn he, that God knew things that he did not, Matt 24:36. In one scripture Jesus calls God, HIS GOD, four different times, Rev 3:12.
God spoke to Jesus three different times while Jesus was on earth, Matt 3:17, MARK 9:7, John 12:28. Jesus was not deceiving anyone, because Jehovah, his Father hates deception, Ps 5:6, 1Pet 2:23.
To my mind, there are two scriptures that make it impossible for God and Jesus to be the same person, Dan 7:13,14 and Rev 5:6-8. These dcriptures speak about Jehovah God, on His throne and Jesus comes in before Him, to receive something both times. Even that is impossible for God.
One last thing, a positive proof, a no-brainer to me, verse John 5:22, which says, The Father does NO judging, but has given all the judging to the Son. This would be a flat out lie if they were the same person!!!
 

John Martin

Active Member
The concept of Trinity is conceptualization of certain expressions in the New Testament: Jesus says, I am in the Father and the Father is in me; the Father and I are one. The Father has given all authority to the Son and the Son does what he sees the Father doing. When Jesus was baptized the Spirit of God descended on Jesus and he heard the voice, 'Your are my beloved Son'. At the moment of Jesus transfiguration, God says' he is my beloved Son'. Defining God as Father,Son and the Holy Spirit was later development based on the statements found in the New Testaments.In order to understand Jesus' statements we need to understand his spiritual evolution.

There are many important moments in the life of Jesus. We can take four important moments that are significant in his life before his crucifixion, death and resurrection. The first moment was his birth as a human being through his physical mother, Mary. She conceived him, nourished him, protected him in her physical womb and then gave birth to him as a human being. In that sense Jesus was a hundred percent human being.

The second moment was the day of his circumcision. On the eighth day of his birth Jesus was circumcised according to the Jewish tradition. With this Jesus became a Jew. He was not only a human being but also a Jew. He entered into the collective consciousness of Judaism. He lived like a Jew. He worshiped God like a Jew, he ate like a Jew and he spoke like a Jew. In that sense he was a hundred percent Jew. Judaism was his truth, his way and the model for his life. As a Jew he might have said that Judaism was his way, his truth and his life.
As he grew in his spiritual tradition he began to discover its limitations. Discovering the limitations of one’s spiritual tradition is sign of maturity and growth. The first limitation was that his religion, at that time, divided human beings into two: the Jews and the Gentiles. So there was a wall between the Jews and the Gentiles. The second limitation was that God was understood only as the God of the Jews and not of the Gentiles. So there was again a wall between God and the Gentiles. The third limitation was that the external Law took the place of God and human beings were at the service of the Law, or religion. The fourth limitation was that God was a transcendent mystery inaccessible to human beings except through the mediation of the Prophets or the Commandments. The fifth limitation was that his religion created an exclusive collective consciousness thus becoming a source of enmity, conflict and violence.
This realization brought Jesus to the third important moment of his life which was his baptismal experience. The baptismal experience of Jesus was a moment in which he came out of the womb of Judaism and entered into the universal presence of God. It was his spiritual rebirth. First he came out of the physical womb of his physical mother, Mary, and now he came out of his religious womb, Judaism. In this experience the wall between the Jews and the Gentiles was broken down and a new human being was born. It was the birth of a new human consciousness which was united with the whole of humanity and the whole of creation. This new human consciousness was neither a Jew nor a Gentile but the child of God or the Son of God. St. Paul describes this experience very beautifully when he says:” for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew or Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus”.(Gal.3.27-28). The experience of Jesus at his baptism was the birth of Universal Consciousness which embraced the whole of humanity and the whole of creation. In this experience the wall between God and the Gentiles was also broken down and God became the God of the whole of humanity and of creation and not just the God of the Jews. God was not only a transcendent mystery but also an indwelling presence, Emmanuel. The Spirit of God descended upon Jesus and God lived in him and he lived in God. Jesus said, ‘I am in the Father and the Father is in me’ (Jn.14.11). He also said: ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father but through me” (Jn. 14.6-7).
This statement has to be understood in the contest of the New Covenant that God promised to the Jewish people. God gave them Ten Commandments to regulate their lives. But their relationship with God was oscillating between faithfulness and unfaithfulness. It was a turbulent relationship. So God promised that he would make a New Covenant with the people in which he would write the Law in the hearts of the people so that everyone would follow the will of God without being told. (Cf.Jer.31.31-34). It is not really a New Covenant but we can call it ‘eternal covenant’ written in the heart of human beings when God creates them. In the first covenant God told people what they should and should not do but in the New Covenant God tells who human beings are. That self- knowledge becomes the way, the truth and the life and human beings have to live from this inner wisdom and no more from the external commandments. We can speak of a quantum leap in the divine-human relationship.
The fourth important moment in the life of Jesus was when he grew one step further and realized that God and he were one. He declared: ‘the Father and I are one’. This was the last stage of his ascending journey to God. Jesus Christ, not only, entered into our original image and likeness of God but went beyond that and discovered that he was one with God. St. John says, ‘In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God’ (Jn.1.1.). At this level Jesus’ consciousness is one with God and the life he lives is the life of God. At this level God is the way, the truth and the life. We can say that Jesus grew from the individual identity to the collective identity, from the collective to the divine identity. This growth is also the growth in the love of God and the love of neighbor. It begins with the individual love of God and neighbor and grows into the divine love of God and neighbor. Jesus called his experience of God as the kingdom of God. We can use the symbol of a tree. A tree has leaves, branches, trunk and the roots: leaves represent our individual identities, branches represent our collective identities as belief systems, trunk represent universal consciousness(the Son of God) and the roots represent Divine. So Jesus began his journey as a leaf and grow into the awareness of the roots. When Jesus said' I am the Son of God' it represent at the level of the trunk, where he experiences God in him and he in God. It is in this level that the spirit of God descends upon him. When Jesus said, the Father and I are one' it belongs to the highest level of the roots. The Son of God is one who is united with the whole of humanity and creation and lives for them. He also stands before God representing the whole of humanity and creation. He also speaks to the whole of humanity and creation in the name of God. The main principles of Jesus experience, the kingdom of God.

1.there is only on God. This God is greater than religions and human beings.
2. Human beings are not creatures of God but they are manifestations of God. Creation is not a creature of God but a manifestation of God.
3. Human beings, as manifestations of God, can grow in their relationship with God. They can grow from the individual to the collective, from the collective to the universal and finally from the universal to the divine and f discover their oneness with God. It does not mean human beings become another God. there is only one God. it is like a piece of ice melting into the ocean of Divine.
4. Belief systems are meant to be at the service of human beings and not human beings at the service of belief systems.

The other aspect of the Trinity is that: human life is relationships. It is in relationships that we should experience God;it is in giving and relationship we unfold our life
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Muffled

Jesus in me
None of which would require he become human. If you believe god is all powerful, then he can do each of the above without taking on human form - the only one of the above that might hold weight is that of dying in physical form, which since he doesn't actually die (maybe a container he was using might have - but it is clearly not god's death) it is rather ineffective. Not one of the other would require god become human - also, which particular prophecy do you refer to?

My experience is that it is highly effective. Perhaps what you mean is that it does not affect you personnaly or have an effect upon you.

Even assuming this, there is nothing that indicates that god would be required to do so in a certain way (such as becoming human)

Prior to this episode there was no attempt made to offer salvation. Each of the other prophets had their own duties, none of them were selected to tell people how to obtain salvation. None of them.

I believe that is true to an extent although there has always been a call for people to become godly. It appears from the text that it is necessary for Jesus "to go away" (that presupposes His coming) in order for the Paraclete to come.
 
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