Universe is mind-sense construction. What is the objective reality of the universe? How do we ever know the ‘objective reality out -there’ as it is?
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God is All That Is; there is nothing that is not God
- Thread starter Chris Terai
- Start date
Universe is mind-sense construction. What is the objective reality of the universe? How do we ever know the ‘objective reality out -there’ as it is?
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
They are negativity, its undeniable.
These are not my words. They are the truth that was within me when I returned from a near-death experience, but I didn't really understand them. And then I did, and I was an atheist no more.
"God is All That Is, and there is nothing that is not God."
I've heard the argument many times, that one cannot see God, and yet we do every day... from within. Once we realize that, the mysteries of faith fall into place as common understanding, and the myths fall away. What does the message mean to you? Do you see truths of your faith within those words?
- If God is All That Is, and we are born into and of All That Is, then God truly is the father, the provider.
- Many religions hold that God knows all and sees all. If God is All That Is, this is fact undeniable.
- The more we love, the more blissful our life. This is alignment with God. It is proof that God is divine.
- If God is All That Is, and God is divine, then everything is divinity in various degrees of expression and evil dos not exist. Even that which we dislike knows love on some level; it's simply an impure expression... or we are. This makes sense, because every time we relate to evil, we suffer our perception. When instead, we see All That Is as varying degrees of goodness, suffering dissolves.
- Atheists believe in All That Is, while those of faith believe in God. Beliefs converge if All That Is is God.
If this is not a fallacy, then what in earth makes a fallacy?!!
Man has to accept his limitations. We have to distinguish our logical thinking from our wishful thinking and imaginations. There are the literal meanings and there are the analogies.
“God all that is.”
But God can do anything.
He is the most beautiful one, and he can create the ugliest one.
The ugliest one is not himself. The ugliest one is not God.
Don’t try to use your eloquence to say that the ugliest one is beautiful. He is not!
God is God. And you, and me are nothing but little poor humans!!
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
It's an ongoing process of discovery. The universe or all that is, consists of quite a lot, and we as a species have been studying it for a relatively minuscule amount of time from a single very limited perspective. Replacing the term the universe with god will not get us any closer to comprehending the objective reality of reality.
Perhaps it will just be another adventure for those of us not expecting anything, and we will get what we get regardless of what we do on Earth - especially if we wouldn't have behaved differently if actually believing in a God anyway.
(I think I'm repeating myself - as usual)
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The Anointed
Well-Known Member
These are not my words. They are the truth that was within me when I returned from a near-death experience, but I didn't really understand them. And then I did, and I was an atheist no more.
"God is All That Is, and there is nothing that is not God."
I've heard the argument many times, that one cannot see God, and yet we do every day... from within. Once we realize that, the mysteries of faith fall into place as common understanding, and the myths fall away. What does the message mean to you? Do you see truths of your faith within those words?
- If God is All That Is, and we are born into and of All That Is, then God truly is the father, the provider.
- Many religions hold that God knows all and sees all. If God is All That Is, this is fact undeniable.
- The more we love, the more blissful our life. This is alignment with God. It is proof that God is divine.
- If God is All That Is, and God is divine, then everything is divinity in various degrees of expression and evil dos not exist. Even that which we dislike knows love on some level; it's simply an impure expression... or we are. This makes sense, because every time we relate to evil, we suffer our perception. When instead, we see All That Is as varying degrees of goodness, suffering dissolves.
- Atheists believe in All That Is, while those of faith believe in God. Beliefs converge if All That Is is God.
The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, it would seem that if energy cannot be created, then it always was, and If it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end. Energy can be and is converted to that which we perceive as matter. In fact, this apparent material universe at the time of the Big Bang, was pure electromagnetic energy, which, IMO, was spewed out of a WHITE Hole, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, which has been converted to that which we perceive as matter only to be reconverted to its original form as electromagnetic energy during the phase of the Big Crunch.
If you believe that a universe of mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, [in Kantian terminology, an end-in-itself] --------- self- replication capabilities, and “coded chemistry”? Then you must accept that it is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, that has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that it [The Eternal Energy] has become, the collective consciousness of all that it is.
In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.
If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.
Nothing is solid & everything is energy: scientists explain the world of quantum physics
An except from the above link. "The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a 'GREAT THOUGHT' rather than a great machine. The mind seems to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, but rather a creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, « the mental world »; Nature 436: 29, 2005)
That ‘GREAT THOUGHT’ is the LOGOS God, who is the divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity.
The root to the word Brahman originally meant SPEECH, Brahman is the creator of the Hindus, and is one and the same as the WORD = the Logos; who is the Christians creator, the eternal gathering of information, which is expressed in each universal body. Brahman (Speech) as with Logos (Word) is the essential divine reality of the universe, the eternal evolving spirit from which all being originates and to who all being must return.
The LOGOS God, is today as he has always been. He is the only true constant in that he is constantly evolving. The only mind that has ceased to evolve, is the mind that has ceased to exist.
Shabda OR SHABDA STANDS FOR ‘WORD’ MANIFESTED BY SOUND [VERBAL]
Bhartrhari speaks about the creative power of shabda, the manifold universe is a creation of Shabda Brahman
The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc (R.V.X.114.8), and has hymns in praise of ‘SPEECH AS THE CREATOR.’
The Greek word “LOGOS’ which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the mind which are to be expressed.
The term, “LOGOS” = ‘WORD, pertains to the very plan from the outset. [The creation of a universal body in which a Supreme mind or personality of Godhead to that body, develops.] In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vac.' Vac means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vac has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.
John 1: 1; In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God and was God. And the supreme personality or controlling mind to have developed within the invisible eternal body of ever evolving information, was “THE LIGHT OF MAN” All the information, knowledge, wisdom and insight, gained from the body of mankind, the MOST HIGH in the previous creation, who was the Light and life of that ever-growing body of information, which is called God. All things came into existence through him, by him and for him. Without him, nothing exists.
Countless universal bodies have burst forth from Brahman=Logos and have retuned, to him, each one evolving a little higher than the previous body. The days and nights of Brahman are called manvantara and prayala, Manvantara refers to each period of universal activity and Pralaya refers to the periods of universal darkness or non-being according to our finite minds.
Every living thing within this apparent boundless cosmos, are merely information gatherers for the eternal energy, that Great Thought, which manifests itself as this living universe, which is all that exists. and is the collective consciousness of all that exists, there is nothing that you have ever done or will do in the future, that is not recorded within the ‘GREAT THOUGHT.’
This nano technology, it really frightens me
They can make a flying camera that looks just like a bee
Can spiders, ants, and house flies transmit the things I say
Can our words and all our actions be recorded every day?
I remember back when I was young, I’s no more’n a lad
Sometimes I’d be at home alone and doin something bad
And I’d turn mums crucifix around so He couldn’t see me do it
Now I think of all this nano stuff and I think I might have blew it
Once you understand that God is all, you’d have to be half blind
Not to realise that everything feeds into that great mind
All them spiders in the corners, ants in every crack and nook
Were filming everything I did---now it’s recorded in God’s book.
But that don’t really bother me, cos I know it’s tightly sealed
And only one’s allowed to open it---and you know? somehow I feel
He’s not the sort what runs around accusing everyone
And though He lives in me, one day I’ll be, in Him, ‘God’s only Son.’……… The Anointed.
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Why do you say so? When you know neither the objective universe nor even the definition or meaning of the word God, how do you assert what you assert?
BTW, God is not supposed to be a replacement for the universe. That is your take on the word God. And your take is not necessarily correct.
...
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
That sounds like unnecessarily (and potentially deliberately confusing) wordplay. If you're talking about "All That Is", why not just say that. Why bother with the word "God" at all.
Like it or not, that word, especially capitalised, has some very distinct meanings to lots of people that are completely different to what you're proposing and so the word carries a lot of baggage. If all you really wanted to do was present your idea of how everything works, why would you choose to include this complication?
Arguably, if God is everything, it can't be any one thing at the same time. I'd suggest that no limiting terms such as "father" or "provider" can be legitimately applied to it, just as you can't legitimately say "my car is a wheel".
Only if God is also independently conscious, which could be seen to create a self-referential loop. You can't have all knowledge of a thing within that thing.
Also, if God is everything, it would also be all the ignorance and well as all the knowledge.
I think this is where the wordplay causes an issue. Divine relates to deities, which have a relatively clear definition. I think what you're calling God falls outside that definition so calling your "All That Is" God "divine" is flawed at best.
Also, I'd argue that love doesn't always make for a blissful live, say if it is unrequited or for something unobtainable.
Which supports the idea that calling "All That Is" God is a mistake. We all see the same thing, you're just unnecessarily putting a different label on it.
If, if, if,. Your opinion, nothing more
My children, my husband, my family, my friends, no god needed
Absolutely zero is total lack of heat, i.e cold
Actually darkness is the default, light came later as suns formed
You think? Ok
No, you have provided an oft repeated guess based on assumption and named it proof. We can all do that but falsifiable evidence is wgat makes it all valid
Chris Terai
Member
Wow @The Anointed . That was an exceptional post, and quite the prose at the end as well. I tip my hat to you. It has taken me more than a decade of introspection to understand how it is that God is All That Is, and that there is nothing that is not God. I had to correct my entire belief system, reform my world if you will. You have processed this and explained what God taught me very well. Again, I tip my hat. There you have it... two tips!
Thank you to everyone for the lively exploration of the words of truth that were shared with me and the conclusions I reached that redivined my life. It is good to see such consideration of possibilities. It's nice to see the open minds and those seeking to resolve or understand what took me more than a decade to reconcile.
We think; we know reality. But the reality we know is all in our heads. We operate by means of our mental constructs, the models we create of All That Is. Because we do not realize through real eyes, but must instead conceptualize, it is apparent that conceptual eyes are real and physical eyes are concepts. But who can see, if they don't understand how we know?
Thought about All That Is will never be as great as the actuality; we can't fit the wholeness of reality into mere concepts. We can know alignment by means of our feelings. We can know and be virtue, and in as much as we approximate our virtuous environment, we will experience synergy. This is the reward for being divine... for following the guidance to be our greatest selves.
What we have been doing, in my opinion, is exploring belief systems. The entirety of the reality we know is but a set of beliefs about All That Is. Where it aligns, we experience bliss because that is the nature of All That Is. Where our models are broken, we know suffering because we're in contrast to reality instead of integrating with it. It is suffering that tells us to realign our model. Feelings tell us our actions are or are not aligned.
What does it mean to have feelings? Most of us were taught that we have positive and negative feelings. I have found that what we perceive to be negative feelings are in fact the retractions of positive energy, akin to their delightful counterparts which are the addition of energy. They show us where our model fits and does not, where our belief systems or actions are out of alignment with All That Is. They're akin to dis-ease and I'll-ness (body language) in that they offer feedback on how aligned our expression is.
I have used that understanding to process and come to understanding with regard to God being All That Is, and yes, as was pointed out... God is All That Isn't as well, because nothing is an essential aspect of something, the means by which we delineate and understand what is. World models are not reality, though they are the reality we know. Outside of them exists the actuality, the unknowable All That Is, which we can explore and create a more or less accurate model of, but which is greater than mind can ever know.
As The Anointed has pointed out, science is getting closer to modeling reality in accordance with All That Is. As we move deeper into this understanding, we move into alignment and advance as a society. Science is the study of God, but they don't know. They consider it the exploration of All That Is.
I do think its important to bridge the gap between science and spirituality. I find value in realizing that the ancients were not off their rocker, that instead we've simply rediscovered their truths. But mostly, I have come to realize and appreciate that although I'll never know All That Is with mind, I do love All That Is without exception, It's a world-reforming realization. When we look upon a beautiful mountain or face and realize we are looking at God, and that all we know, appreciate, and love is also God... well life takes on a brilliant shine. All of a sudden, we realize the wholeness of our love for divinity. This is what it is to be filled with the light of the wholly spirit (love). It is the essence of how life is redivined. I can't say what God looks like from the outside, but the view from within is splendid.
A great deal of the challenge in this thread has seemed to be perspective. What we take personally, we have not aligned. Life is not personal; it is a divine experience. Whether we receive it as such has more to do with who we are than the experience itself. If we embrace love in all we are, speak, and do, then it is the defining emotion of our experience and life is divine. In as much as we fail to realize love, life pales. Understanding that God is All That Is and moving into relationship with the divine means that all we love and appreciate is always with us. It opens the door for us to know the bliss of limitless unconditional love. That reality is made possible by removing the distinction between different things and accepting that All That Is is God, and there are no exceptions. It is a big deal, at least if we are seeking the ultimate life experience.
Thank you to everyone for the lively exploration of the words of truth that were shared with me and the conclusions I reached that redivined my life. It is good to see such consideration of possibilities. It's nice to see the open minds and those seeking to resolve or understand what took me more than a decade to reconcile.
We think; we know reality. But the reality we know is all in our heads. We operate by means of our mental constructs, the models we create of All That Is. Because we do not realize through real eyes, but must instead conceptualize, it is apparent that conceptual eyes are real and physical eyes are concepts. But who can see, if they don't understand how we know?
Thought about All That Is will never be as great as the actuality; we can't fit the wholeness of reality into mere concepts. We can know alignment by means of our feelings. We can know and be virtue, and in as much as we approximate our virtuous environment, we will experience synergy. This is the reward for being divine... for following the guidance to be our greatest selves.
What we have been doing, in my opinion, is exploring belief systems. The entirety of the reality we know is but a set of beliefs about All That Is. Where it aligns, we experience bliss because that is the nature of All That Is. Where our models are broken, we know suffering because we're in contrast to reality instead of integrating with it. It is suffering that tells us to realign our model. Feelings tell us our actions are or are not aligned.
What does it mean to have feelings? Most of us were taught that we have positive and negative feelings. I have found that what we perceive to be negative feelings are in fact the retractions of positive energy, akin to their delightful counterparts which are the addition of energy. They show us where our model fits and does not, where our belief systems or actions are out of alignment with All That Is. They're akin to dis-ease and I'll-ness (body language) in that they offer feedback on how aligned our expression is.
I have used that understanding to process and come to understanding with regard to God being All That Is, and yes, as was pointed out... God is All That Isn't as well, because nothing is an essential aspect of something, the means by which we delineate and understand what is. World models are not reality, though they are the reality we know. Outside of them exists the actuality, the unknowable All That Is, which we can explore and create a more or less accurate model of, but which is greater than mind can ever know.
As The Anointed has pointed out, science is getting closer to modeling reality in accordance with All That Is. As we move deeper into this understanding, we move into alignment and advance as a society. Science is the study of God, but they don't know. They consider it the exploration of All That Is.
I do think its important to bridge the gap between science and spirituality. I find value in realizing that the ancients were not off their rocker, that instead we've simply rediscovered their truths. But mostly, I have come to realize and appreciate that although I'll never know All That Is with mind, I do love All That Is without exception, It's a world-reforming realization. When we look upon a beautiful mountain or face and realize we are looking at God, and that all we know, appreciate, and love is also God... well life takes on a brilliant shine. All of a sudden, we realize the wholeness of our love for divinity. This is what it is to be filled with the light of the wholly spirit (love). It is the essence of how life is redivined. I can't say what God looks like from the outside, but the view from within is splendid.
A great deal of the challenge in this thread has seemed to be perspective. What we take personally, we have not aligned. Life is not personal; it is a divine experience. Whether we receive it as such has more to do with who we are than the experience itself. If we embrace love in all we are, speak, and do, then it is the defining emotion of our experience and life is divine. In as much as we fail to realize love, life pales. Understanding that God is All That Is and moving into relationship with the divine means that all we love and appreciate is always with us. It opens the door for us to know the bliss of limitless unconditional love. That reality is made possible by removing the distinction between different things and accepting that All That Is is God, and there are no exceptions. It is a big deal, at least if we are seeking the ultimate life experience.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Almighty
bigger stronger faster most intelligent and greatly experienced
cannot be pushed aside
cannot be subdued
cannot be circumvented
cannot be tricked or cheated
Almighty
and my fellowman is a creation
NOT the Creator
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Again, you have tried to define 'God' by comparing It what It is not (not bigger, stronger, etc.) This is saying there is 'God' and then there is something that is 'not God'. If there is something that is 'Not God' then there can be no rationale in any philosophy..
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Prove it.
"If" - see how you started this with "If?" For all your talk of being sure, you are caveating your statements here pretty heavily. I like it.
Also - if the average/general monotheistic God is a "father" - then He is a lousy one compared to any Earthly father worth his salt. This is for many myriad reasons - if asked I can easily provide examples.
This is all subjective. Subject to a person's life experience. There are a great many people who feel they have suffered at the hands of "love." Ever see the documentary on Gabriel Fernandez? The boy loved his mother to the bitter end - a mother who teamed up on him with beatings and various methods of torture constantly with her boyfriend until he died one night at their hands. He was not happy - yet he loved and desperately wanted it in return. Tell me his life was more "blissful" as a result. Go ahead now. Do it.
Now this is just goofy. If God is "all that is" as you say, then there is no reason to qualify this with "from within." Even looking at a grain of sand, one would be "looking at God" from your perspective, no? So why this goofiness of tacking on "from within?" What is that? To my mind, it is an admission that God is NOT to be found "without" (that is, on the outside). In other words... He's all in your head. This is likely some form of Freudian Slip, or you trying to cover your arse and not sound completely delusional. I get it... but it isn't some statement of fact - its a mess, for exactly the reasons I listed above.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
BSM1
What? Me worry?
One and the same. Much like a single cell splitting into different kind of cells to become a human being. Might not look like the original cell, and may have a completely different function, but still came from that singular source.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I do not confuse Spirit.....with a rock
BSM1
What? Me worry?
This delineation on your part is also 'God'. Nothing can be separated from 'God' (including meanings, intentions, and thought processes). If there is any separation from 'God' or anything else, even if semantically or implied, then you have ceased talking about 'God' (which is a Catch-22 because that also is 'God').
Thief
Rogue Theologian
not buying it
if I talk about a graven image.....that doesn't represent God
I seem to recall.....that's not allowed