God is disproven by science? Really?

[Sgt. Pepper]

Oh I get that for sure. That's why I don't try to convince people to abandon their religious beliefs. Sure, I'll debate specific claims and arguments, but my intent is never to get a person to walk away from their religion. For a lot of people, their religious beliefs are a vital component of who they are as a person.

I participate in a couple of support groups for survivors of abuse, and I share my story of suffering childhood abuse in these groups. I also share my story of why I left Christianity, which has inspired other survivors of abuse to consider leaving Christianity as well. I've shared my stories on this site too. I never push another survivor of abuse to forsake their Christian faith, but I do let them know that it's possible and I talk to them about how much my life has improved since I renounced my faith. But I emphasize that the decision for them to renounce their faith is entirely up to them. I let them know that I would listen to them and offer them emotional support.

My belief in God and my Christian faith were deeply entrenched in my life when I was a Christian. I was a very devout Christian, and I denied anything that was contrary to what I had been taught about the Bible. I was taught that if I was going to be a "real Christian," then I had to believe that the Bible was inerrant and infallible. So, I learned to keep my doubts to myself because I knew that I would be shamed by other Christians for questioning God and expressing my doubts. And as I explained in my earlier post in this thread (click here to read the post), I never told anyone else while I was growing up about my unique abilities. In fact, I spent years willfully ignoring them because I knew what the Bible claimed about the subject and I was afraid of what other people would think of me. I won't go into further details about this again because I already explained it in my other post. I linked it, in case you want to read it.

Anyway, I stopped believing that the Bible is inerrant and infallible when I re-read it without being under the influence of my faith, and I realized that it contradicted itself in what it taught about many topics. And upon further study of the Bible, I no longer believe that it was divinely inspired by God, but rather its stories are copied from a few pagan religions that predate both it and Christianity. For the record, I've explained in detail why I believe that the stories in the Bible are copied from older pagan religions (click here). As I said, I left Christianity a little over a year and a half ago. I shared my experience of leaving it in my thread, Ex-Christians only: Why Did You Leave Christianity? (click here). You can read my post if you'd like to know why I renounced my faith and how difficult it was for me.

 

[Valjean]

Satan chose to make himself into a Satan - James 1:13-15
Satan's cherubic job is presented to us at Ezekiel 28:13-15

There is perfection in a relative sense and in an absolute sense. Absolutely God is Perfect.
Being a perfect God He did Not create angels nor humans to be robots, automatons.
So, perfection was in a 'limited' sense:
(a wedding ring measured is not perfect but perfect for a wedding ceremony)
( a knife is perfect to cut things but who would eat soup with a knife )
Obedience was No forced upon angels or humans, but obedience would show their choice or not choice.
If Satan and Adam had 'lacked the ability to choose' then they would have been 'imperfect'.

What evidence do you have of this, other than folklore and tradition?
You're preaching.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I participate in a couple of support groups for survivors of abuse, and I share my story of suffering childhood abuse in these groups. I also share my story of why I left Christianity, which has inspired other survivors of abuse to consider leaving Christianity as well. I've shared my stories on this site too. I never push another survivor of abuse to forsake their Christian faith, but I do let them know that it's possible and I talk to them about how much my life has improved since I renounced my faith. But I emphasize that the decision for them to renounce their faith is entirely up to them. I let them know that I would listen to them and offer them emotional support.

My belief in God and my Christian faith were deeply entrenched in my life when I was a Christian. I was a very devout Christian, and I denied anything that was contrary to what I had been taught about the Bible. I was taught that if I was going to be a "real Christian," then I had to believe that the Bible was inerrant and infallible. So, I learned to keep my doubts to myself because I knew that I would be shamed by other Christians for questioning God and expressing my doubts. And as I explained in my earlier post in this thread (click here to read the post), I never told anyone else while I was growing up about my unique abilities. In fact, I spent years willfully ignoring them because I knew what the Bible claimed about the subject and I was afraid of what other people would think of me. I won't go into further details about this again because I already explained it in my other post. I linked it, in case you want to read it.

Anyway, I stopped believing that the Bible is inerrant and infallible when I re-read it without being under the influence of my faith, and I realized that it contradicted itself in what it taught about many topics. And upon further study of the Bible, I no longer believe that it was divinely inspired by God, but rather its stories are copied from a few pagan religions that predate both it and Christianity. For the record, I've explained in detail why I believe that the stories in the Bible are copied from older pagan religions (click here). As I said, I left Christianity a little over a year and a half ago. I shared my experience of leaving it in my thread, Ex-Christians only: Why Did You Leave Christianity? (click here). You can read my post if you'd like to know why I renounced my faith and how difficult it was for me.

Sorry, don’t believe you’ve ever been born again or your story because of your other thread and comments don’t line up. For example you said you were a Christian for 30 years but clearly not living like one, nowhere in your testimony do you mention how you were saved and born again, that you know Jesus Christ. You shared this as your testimony:

To be honest, I understand the sentiment expressed because for all the years I thought I was crazy since I could see ghosts and talk to them. Admittedly, the most crucial turning point for me fully accepting my abilities was watching the Ghost Adventures documentary when it aired on television back in July 2007. I'm not kidding. It inspired me to not only stop trying to suppress my abilities, but also to start purchasing some ghost hunting equipment and begin to investigate haunted locations and researching the paranormal myself.

I've been a fan of Ghost Adventures ever since. Now, almost 15 years later, I'm a seasoned paranormal investigator with a very nice collection of ghost hunting equipment. I travel in-state and out-of-state to investigate haunted locations. I also use my abilities when I investigate haunted locations, and I've used my abilities to help other people when I feel like they're open to hearing what I have to say. But more often than not, I don't even mention what I can do when other people are around me while I'm investigating a haunted location. I can feel what other people are feeling when I'm around them, so I can sense if they're open to listening to me or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, don’t believe you’ve ever been born again or your story because of your other thread and comments don’t line up. For example you said you were a Christian for 30 years but clearly not living like one, nowhere in your testimony do you mention how you were saved and born again, that you know Jesus Christ. You shared this as your testimony:

To be honest, I understand the sentiment expressed because for all the years I thought I was crazy since I could see ghosts and talk to them. Admittedly, the most crucial turning point for me fully accepting my abilities was watching the Ghost Adventures documentary when it aired on television back in July 2007. I'm not kidding. It inspired me to not only stop trying to suppress my abilities, but also to start purchasing some ghost hunting equipment and begin to investigate haunted locations and researching the paranormal myself.

I've been a fan of Ghost Adventures ever since. Now, almost 15 years later, I'm a seasoned paranormal investigator with a very nice collection of ghost hunting equipment. I travel in-state and out-of-state to investigate haunted locations. I also use my abilities when I investigate haunted locations, and I've used my abilities to help other people when I feel like they're open to hearing what I have to say. But more often than not, I don't even mention what I can do when other people are around me while I'm investigating a haunted location. I can feel what other people are feeling when I'm around them, so I can sense if they're open to listening to me or not.

That is your standard for what a Christian is due to your flawed interpretation of the Bible. If I made a personal translation of the Bible it would probably be just as flawed as yours is, but I could use my bogus translation to claim that you are not a real Christian either.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is your standard for what a Christian is due to your flawed interpretation of the Bible. If I made a personal translation of the Bible it would probably be just as flawed as yours is, but I could use my bogus translation to claim that you are not a real Christian either.

I thought you knew the Bible? But here you are on RF: You have to keep up that deception…

 

[Subduction Zone]

I thought you knew the Bible? But here you are on RF: You have to keep up that deception…View attachment 64552

I have demonstrated quite a few times that I do know it better than you do. You pick and choose a few verses here and there that you follow. If you went back to some of our earliest encounters there were verses in the Bible that you claimed did not exist. It has been too long to be specific. But you make the rather obvious mistake of assuming that to understand the Bible one must believe it. The opposite is more likely to be true. Believing the Bible quite often leads to a very narrow single interpretation. One is unable to see that it can be interpreted in many different ways. That is why we have roughly 40,000 denominations with a large range of differences in interpretations.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I have demonstrated quite a few times that I do know it better than you do. You pick and choose a few verses here and there that you follow. If you went back to some of our earliest encounters there were verses in the Bible that you claimed did not exist. It has been too long to be specific

And if you can’t produce those encounters and demonstrate what your saying I will just call you out and either you have me mixed up with someone else, you’re having a mental delusion or you’re lying.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That is your standard for what a Christian is due to your flawed interpretation of the Bible. If I made a personal translation of the Bible it would probably be just as flawed as yours is, but I could use my bogus translation to claim that you are not a real Christian either.

There have always been Christians accusing other Christians of not being real Christians. It's been going on within Christianity for centuries and it will continue to go because that's typically what Christians do, which is to pompously judge and falsely accuse others whose beliefs or actions don't align with what they believe the Bible says. The problem is that Christians can't agree with each other about what the Bible says, and they're constantly bickering, belittling, and debating each other over what they think the Bible actually teaches. But they have the audacity to insist that the Bible is "God's Word" and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world.

 

[Jose Fly]

I participate in a couple of support groups for survivors of abuse, and I share my story of suffering childhood abuse in these groups. I also share my story of why I left Christianity, which has inspired other survivors of abuse to consider leaving Christianity as well. I've shared my stories on this site too. I never push another survivor of abuse to forsake their Christian faith, but I do let them know that it's possible and I talk to them about how much my life has improved since I renounced my faith. But I emphasize that the decision for them to renounce their faith is entirely up to them. I let them know that I would listen to them and offer them emotional support.

My belief in God and my Christian faith were deeply entrenched in my life when I was a Christian. I was a very devout Christian, and I denied anything that was contrary to what I had been taught about the Bible. I was taught that if I was going to be a "real Christian," then I had to believe that the Bible was inerrant and infallible. So, I learned to keep my doubts to myself because I knew that I would be shamed by other Christians for questioning God and expressing my doubts. And as I explained in my earlier post in this thread (click here to read the post), I never told anyone else while I was growing up about my unique abilities. In fact, I spent years willfully ignoring them because I knew what the Bible claimed about the subject and I was afraid of what other people would think of me. I won't go into further details about this again because I already explained it in my other post. I linked it, in case you want to read it.

Anyway, I stopped believing that the Bible is inerrant and infallible when I re-read it without being under the influence of my faith, and I realized that it contradicted itself in what it taught about many topics. And upon further study of the Bible, I no longer believe that it was divinely inspired by God, but rather its stories are copied from a few pagan religions that predate both it and Christianity. For the record, I've explained in detail why I believe that the stories in the Bible are copied from older pagan religions (click here). As I said, I left Christianity a little over a year and a half ago. I shared my experience of leaving it in my thread, Ex-Christians only: Why Did You Leave Christianity? (click here). You can read my post if you'd like to know why I renounced my faith and how difficult it was for me.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ElishaElijah]

There have always been Christians accusing other Christians of not being real Christians. It's been going on within Christianity for centuries and it will continue to go because that's typically what Christians do, which is to pompously judge and falsely accuse others whose beliefs or actions don't align with what they believe the Bible says. The problem is that Christians can't agree with each other about what the Bible says, and they're constantly bickering, belittling, and debating each other over what they think the Bible actually teaches. But they have the audacity to insist that the Bible is "God's Word" and that Christianity is the only true religion in the world.

Personally, I think that their disunity and infighting severely taint the public image of Christianity and cause people to mock Christians and their religion. FWIW, I purposely ignore the self-righteous Christians who sanctimoniously judge me and falsely accuse me. I don't think that they are worth my time, and I take whatever they say or accuse me of with a grain of salt. I don't take any of them seriously.

They can ramble on and on, but I think that they are full of hot air. IMO, these are the types of Christians who drive people away from God and cause them to despise Christianity. I think these Christians are a stumbling block that causes people to reject Christianity.

If a supposed Christian was a medium and calling on the dead, that would surely make anyone want to run from that person and their teaching. But a
Christian goes by the Bible as the Word of God. There are false teachers and frauds in the Church, you left, my thinking is that you got offended and ran out. You could’ve still followed Jesus but you haven’t. That says a lot.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There has always been a lot of division among Christians who believe a different interpretation of the Bible, but most Christians like to claim that their interpretation of the Bible is the correct one and other Christians are wrong in their interpretation of the Bible. They often bicker and debate with each other over what they think the Bible actually teaches.

Christians can't even agree which one of their churches is the "true church."

You’re exactly right.

So what should one searching, do?
Go by what people say, or go by what Jesus said?

You see, Christ cut through all of that debating dogma rigmarole, by saying that people could find His disciples, by looking for one thing: Love.
Love that transcends all man made barriers….
“I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples: if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35)

How much love did Christ have? He gave his life for people!

That’s the kind of love His followers should have. They already knew they needed to love one another, but this was called a new commandment of love, willing to give their lives for their brothers.

And He stated that others would observe this…”all will know”….

No racism, no national boundaries, no cultural barriers, would be able to hinder this love… it transcends all.

Is there a group like this? I believe so.

Can you perceive how such a love would incur hatred by people of the world? That means, if a war develops between two nations, how could they take part, and possibly be killing their brothers in that land?

(I mean, Christ even told his followers to “love your enemy”! (Matthew 5:44) Tell me, how can killing them, in any way be loving them?

What is Christendom’s record in this regard? Awful isn’t it?

But that doesn’t make Jesus’ teachings wrong; only Christendom wrong….and disobedient.

So, as the expression goes, “don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!”

A pertinent question to ask, is, why is Christendom so fragmented?
Way more so than the other major religions! I mean, sects of it go into the thousands!

If you want to hide something genuine, what is the best way to do it? To make plenty of counterfeits!

Who would be behind a tactic like this? Maybe one whom Jesus called “the ruler / prince of this world”? (John 12:31) The Apostle Paul called him, “the god of this world/system of things” (2 Corinthians 4:8), the one mentioned in Revelation 12:9 who, along with “his angels”, “is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”

@Trailblazer , I hope you will read this, too.

@Sgt. Pepper , I’m sorry if I’ve upset you somehow.

 

[Trailblazer]

You’re exactly right.

So what should one searching, do?
Go by what people say, or go by what Jesus said?

You see, Christ cut through all of that debating dogma rigmarole, by saying that people could find His disciples, by looking for one thing: Love.
Love that transcends all man made barriers….
“I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples: if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35)

How much love did Christ have? He gave his life for people!

That’s the kind of love His followers should have. They already knew they needed to love one another, but this was called a new commandment of love, willing to give their lives for their brothers.

And He stated that others would observe this…”all will know”….

No racism, no national boundaries, no cultural barriers, would be able to hinder this love… it transcends all.

Is there a group like this? I believe so.

Can you perceive how such a love would incur hatred by people of the world? That means, if a war develops between two nations, how could they take part, and possibly be killing their brothers in that land?

(I mean, Christ even told his followers to “love your enemy”! (Matthew 5:44) Tell me, how can killing them, in any way be loving them?

What is Christendom’s record in this regard? Awful isn’t it?

But that doesn’t make Jesus’ teachings wrong; only Christendom wrong….and disobedient.

So, as the expression goes, “don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!”

A pertinent question to ask, is, why is Christendom so fragmented?
Way more so than the other major religions! I mean, sects of it go into the thousands!

If you want to hide something genuine, what is the best way to do it? To make plenty of counterfeits!

Who would be behind a tactic like this? Maybe one whom Jesus called “the ruler / prince of this world”? (John 12:31) The Apostle Paul called him, “the god of this world/system of things” (2 Corinthians 4:8), the one mentioned in Revelation 12:9 who, along with “his angels”, “is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”

@Trailblazer , I hope you will read this, too.

@Sgt. Pepper , I’m sorry if I’ve upset you somehow.

*FRIENDLY*

 

[YoursTrue]

I have demonstrated quite a few times that I do know it better than you do. You pick and choose a few verses here and there that you follow. If you went back to some of our earliest encounters there were verses in the Bible that you claimed did not exist. It has been too long to be specific. But you make the rather obvious mistake of assuming that to understand the Bible one must believe it. The opposite is more likely to be true. Believing the Bible quite often leads to a very narrow single interpretation. One is unable to see that it can be interpreted in many different ways. That is why we have roughly 40,000 denominations with a large range of differences in interpretations.

It seems you claim to know a lot about many things better than many others. One comment I liked above from @ElishaElijah is that if a person claims to communicate with dead persons, before or after I knew what the Bible really said, I would first shudder and then figuratively run from that person. Yuk.

 

[YoursTrue]

What evidence do you have of this, other than folklore and tradition?
You're preaching.

It's also a matter of belief and faith. And education and understanding. According to one definition of postulation vs theorem is this: "The main difference between postulates and theorems is that postulates are assumed to be true without any proof while theorems can be and must be proven to be true." In other words, a theorem can be and MUST BE (according to that definition) proven to be true. But a postulate does not have to be. But it can be true. That doesn't matter though because the real debate seems to be what is true?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You’re exactly right.

So what should one searching, do?
Go by what people say, or go by what Jesus said?

You see, Christ cut through all of that debating dogma rigmarole, by saying that people could find His disciples, by looking for one thing: Love.
Love that transcends all man made barriers….
“I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples: if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:34,35)

How much love did Christ have? He gave his life for people!

That’s the kind of love His followers should have. They already knew they needed to love one another, but this was called a new commandment of love, willing to give their lives for their brothers.

And He stated that others would observe this…”all will know”….

No racism, no national boundaries, no cultural barriers, would be able to hinder this love… it transcends all.

Is there a group like this? I believe so.

Can you perceive how such a love would incur hatred by people of the world? That means, if a war develops between two nations, how could they take part, and possibly be killing their brothers in that land?

(I mean, Christ even told his followers to “love your enemy”! (Matthew 5:44) Tell me, how can killing them, in any way be loving them?

What is Christendom’s record in this regard? Awful isn’t it?

But that doesn’t make Jesus’ teachings wrong; only Christendom wrong….and disobedient.

So, as the expression goes, “don’t throw out the baby with the bath water!”

A pertinent question to ask, is, why is Christendom so fragmented?
Way more so than the other major religions! I mean, sects of it go into the thousands!

If you want to hide something genuine, what is the best way to do it? To make plenty of counterfeits!

Who would be behind a tactic like this? Maybe one whom Jesus called “the ruler / prince of this world”? (John 12:31) The Apostle Paul called him, “the god of this world/system of things” (2 Corinthians 4:8), the one mentioned in Revelation 12:9 who, along with “his angels”, “is misleading the entire inhabited earth.”

@Trailblazer , I hope you will read this, too.

@Sgt. Pepper , I’m sorry if I’ve upset you somehow.

You quoted a rather old post of mine (nine months old), so I didn't even remember it when I saw that you quoted it. You cited several scriptures, and I know you believe what you're saying, but I don't care what the Bible says. No offense intended, but you're basically preaching to the choir, my friend. I'm done with Christianity, and I've explained why in other threads, so I don't feel like repeating myself. For what it's worth, you haven't upset me, but I just don't care about what the Bible says or whether or not others believe me. Other people's negative opinions of me, particularly those of pious, judgmental Christians, are completely irrelevant to me. No, I am not referring to you because you're one of the few Christians I've met who I consider to be a decent person rather than a smug jerk whom I go out of my way to avoid. You, on the other hand, are kind toward me despite our differences on some issues.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You quoted a rather old post of mine (nine months old), so I didn't even remember it when I saw that you quoted it. You cited several scriptures, and I know you believe what you're saying, but I don't care what the Bible says. No offense intended, but you're basically preaching to the choir, my friend. I'm done with Christianity, and I've explained why in other threads, so I don't feel like repeating myself. For what it's worth, you haven't upset me, but I just don't care about what the Bible says or whether or not others believe me. Other people's negative opinions of me, particularly those of pious, judgmental Christians, are completely irrelevant to me. No, I am not referring to you because you're one of the few Christians I've met who I consider to be a decent person rather than a smug jerk whom I go out of my way to avoid. You, on the other hand, are kind toward me despite our differences on some issues.

I appreciate your forthright reply.

I hope you’ll keep in mind, though, the reason I gave for why there are so many sects of Christendom, far more than any other religious group.

So please ‘don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.’

If I may ask you a question: have you ever studied any ancestor-worshiping religions?

Take care, my cousin.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

*FRIENDLY*

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I’ll always try to be.

Colossians 4:6….”Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person.”

Of course, no one can perfectly apply this. But we can try. That’s what Jehovah appreciates: our efforts.

Have a good day, the best you can, my cousin.

 

[F1fan]

I appreciate your forthright reply.

I hope you’ll keep in mind, though, the reason I gave for why there are so many sects of Christendom, far more than any other religious group.

So please ‘don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.’

There is a massive range of disagreement among Christians, from liberals, to moderates, to conservatives, to extremists. None agree with each other, yet all think their beliefs guarantee salvation by Jesus.

To observers we can't tell what the baby is from the bathwater. It's all a murky mess.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It seems you claim to know a lot about many things better than many others. One comment I liked above from @ElishaElijah is that if a person claims to communicate with dead persons, before or after I knew what the Bible really said, I would first shudder and then figuratively run from that person. Yuk.

I never claimed to understand the Bible perfectly. I only claimed, and supported that claim multiple times, to understand the Bible better than he did. More than once when I said that the Bible said something he would claim that it was not in the Bible. I would then quote and link the verses for him where it did.

He hated the fact that I knew more about the Bible than he did and could regularly prove it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I appreciate your forthright reply.

I hope you’ll keep in mind, though, the reason I gave for why there are so many sects of Christendom, far more than any other religious group.

So please ‘don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.’

If I may ask you a question: have you ever studied any ancestor-worshiping religions?

Take care, my cousin.

*FRIENDLY*