God is disproven by science? Really?

[Trailblazer]

I would say you don’t know because he was not, but is dead and buried like the other false messengers claiming to be the Christ,

Jesus is just as dead as Baha'u'llah because both their physical bodies are dead...
When their bodies died their souls then ascended to heaven and took on a new form, a spiritual body.
That physical body is the Resurrection Body, the same kind of body we will all have when our physical body dies.

1 Corinthians 15
New International Version

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

but the end is here:

The end is already here. There is nothing to wait for.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Jesus is just as dead as Baha'u'llah because both their physical bodies are dead...

Jesus resurrected Body as He walked the earth for 40 Days as He visited believers before He was visibly taken up to Heaven.
Baha’u’llah shrine and body are still here on earth.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Read the whole book for yourself.

I don't know whether you mean the Bible or the Book of Daniel, but neither is relevant to my life. The Bible explains nothing and doesn't address the relevant issues of modern life like reproductive freedom, democracy, stem cells, greenhouse gas emissions, vaccines or the value of a college education. Let me demonstrate with a look at some randomly chosen scriptures.

Let's take the fifth verse of the fifth chapter of the fifth book (Deuteronomy 5:5), then do that for the 10th, 15th, 20th, 25th, and 30th books. Where not possible, such as with Ezra, the 15th book, which has no chapter fifteen (it has 10 chapters), we'll just go to the fifth verse of the fifth chapter again. And let's look at what it has to say to us:

Deuteronomy 5:5 - "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

2 Samuel 10:10 - "In the course of time, the king of the Ammonites died, and his son Hanun succeeded him as king."

Ezra 15:15 (doesn't go that high; here's 5:5) - "But the eye of their God was watching over the elders of the Jews, and they were not stopped until a report could go to Darius and his written reply be received."

Proverbs 20:20 - "If someone curses their father or mother, their lamp will be snuffed out in pitch darkness."

Lamentations 25:25 - (doesn't go that high; here's 5:5) "Those who pursue us are at our heels; we are weary and find no rest."

Amos 30:30 (no such verse; here's 5:5) - "do not seek Bethel, do not go to Gilgal, do not journey to Beersheba. For Gilgal will surely go into exile, and Bethel will be reduced to nothing."

The whole book is filled with that kind of language. Where is the relevance in any of that or anything else in the book?

Occasionally, I stop on a TV preacher's show not to hear what the Bible has to say but to hear how the preacher preaches. Recently, I heard one discussing a story of Elijah and Elisha, your namesakes from 2 Kings. Take a look at the link, and then try to imagine this man trying to make this story relevant to his audience.

Here's the last book I read from. There is not one line in it that is irrelevant to somebody who wants to be a better bridge player. That's the kind of resource I read for information and advice:

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus resurrected Body as He walked the earth for 40 Days as He visited believers before He was visibly taken up to Heaven.
Baha’u’llah shrine and body are still here on earth.

The physical body of Jesus did not rise from the dead and walk around town. If believers saw anything it was His resurrected spiritual body, not His physical body. Physical bodies do not come back to life after three days being dead in the grave.

Jesus' dead body is still here on earth somewhere. Just because we don't know where it is that doesn't mean it rose from the dead. Lots of bodies of murder victims are never found but that doesn't mean that they rose from the dead and walked away.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The physical body of Jesus did not rise from the dead and walk around town. If believers saw anything it was His resurrected spiritual body, not His physical body. Physical bodies do not come back to life after three days being dead in the grave.

Jesus' dead body is still here on earth somewhere. Just because we don't know where it is that doesn't mean it rose from the dead. Lots of bodies of murder victims are never found but that doesn't mean that they rose from the dead and walked away.

See you are wrong:
”And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24‬:‭38‬-‭44‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Trailblazer]

See you are wrong:
”And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24‬:‭38‬-‭44‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I know all about those verses and I purposefully left them out of my post since I knew you would come back with them.

Assuming that those verses are even true, with all the miracles that Jesus performed, you don't think that Jesus could make Himself appear physical in order to restore the hope and faith of His disciples?

Why does it even matter if Jesus rose physically? It does not matter because there are no physical bodies in heaven where Jesus is now.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (verse 50) means that physical bodies cannot exist in the kingdom of God which is in heaven.

Since there are no physical bodies in heaven where Jesus is now that means that Jesus cannot return in the physical body that He had on earth.

 

[Valjean]

People discussing mythology and legends as serious issues of fact -- What should I make of that? Should I be amused, troubled, or dismayed? Should I join in the game?

Why does this sort of inane analysis seem confined to Christianity, or at least the Abrahamic faiths? I never see any serious discussion of intent, plot and motivation for the Norse gods' antics.

--- end rant..

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus resurrected Body as He walked the earth for 40 Days as He visited believers before He was visibly taken up to Heaven.
Baha’u’llah shrine and body are still here on earth.

So is M. Schneerson's body still in the grave -- some Jews thought he might be the messiah -- but! didn't happen.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I know all about those verses and I purposefully left them out of my post since I knew you would come back with them.

Assuming that those verses are even true, with all the miracles that Jesus performed, you don't think that Jesus could make Himself appear physical in order to restore the hope and faith of His disciples?

Why does it even matter if Jesus rose physically? It does not matter because there are no physical bodies in heaven where Jesus is now.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (verse 50) means that physical bodies cannot exist in the kingdom of God which is in heaven.

Since there are no physical bodies in heaven where Jesus is now that means that Jesus cannot return in the physical body that He had on earth.

Well, yes these corruptible bodies will be changed and glorified incorruptible bodies, I will still be who I am but changed.
What you keep saying is Jesus Christ is a spirit that inhabits messengers that die, this is a false teaching. Jesus Christ is glorified and went to Heaven presented His blood as an atonement for sin once and for all and sat down at the right hand of God the Father.
Baha’u’llah had to repent and believe the Gospel and be born again like every other human being or he would not have eternal life.
He also had multiple wives so really? What is that?

 

[Complex_0047]

This issue regarding the compatibility or commensurability of religion and science is quite an old contention. The terms themselves are vague and amorphous, the modern rendition being significantly different from the way they were employed and understood, say, by Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, or Galileo. The point here is that we should first begin by defining our terms, elucidating what we mean when we say religion or science, outline the scope or purview of each respective domain, and then compare and contrast where they may overlap, what each is attempting to accomplish, which happens to explain or describe the object or phenomenon in question better, and only by careful analysis and synthesis should we hope to come to some sort of conclusion. I would be very interested to know if there are others who might wish to take up this challenge, and by mutual effort, infused with the Socratic spirit of enquiry and truth-seeking, tentatively come to an account of these richly complex subjects, their relationship, and what they have to teach us about ourselves, others, and the world.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, yes these corruptible bodies will be changed and glorified incorruptible bodies, I will still be who I am but changed.

That's true. You will still be who you are as a person is your soul, not your body.

What you keep saying is Jesus Christ is a spirit that inhabits messengers that die, this is a false teaching.

I never said that. You may have thought that is what I was saying but that is a world away from what I said.

Jesus was not a spirit, He was a person to whom God sent the Holy Spirit.
The physical bodies all of Messengers of God die but all their souls continue to live in heaven in a spiritual body.

Jesus Christ is glorified and went to Heaven presented His blood as an atonement for sin once and for all and sat down at the right hand of God the Father.

That is what I believe.

Baha’u’llah had to repent and believe the Gospel and be born again like every other human being or he would not have eternal life.

Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God and a Manifestation of God equivalent to Jesus, and He drew from the same source, God.
Baha'u'llah was not just a man, not any more than Jesus was just a man. Both of them had a twofold nature, so they were both divine and human.
Messengers of God do not need to repent, only humans have to repent.


John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Baha'u'llah told us that we need to be believe in Him and be born again in order to have eternal life, just as Jesus had said.

“O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p.169

“No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 183

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

He also had multiple wives so really? What is that?

Baha'u'llah had three wives because He was raised as a Muslim, and that is the Islamic tradition. Islamic law states that four wives are allowed.
Baha'u'llah already had three wives before He became aware of His mission from God.

The Baha'i law that Baha'u'llah revealed in His Book of Laws allows for only one wife.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It’s just the list of differences but you bring all your preconceived ideas and bias into the conversation.

Irony and projection

Maybe just look at the differences, whether one believes or not the Bible is a unique Book and set apart from any other.

Being a non-believer, I actually get to look at the differences without bias.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Bible hasn’t changed and the only thing expanding is the Kingdom of God not the actual Book of the Bible.

That is demonstrably incorrect.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don’t know any falsehoods other than the falsehoods recorded in the Bible that people said, like what people said about God that were false.
I’ve looked at those and didn’t find peoples interpretation of the supposed falsehoods legit. That could go on for days though when the main point wasn’t that, IT WAS THAT THE BIBLE IS UNIQUE. And it is
You have a strawman you’re arguing against.

Here's just one simple detail: the bible puts camels in an area where they weren't. It's off by several centuries.

I need just one example of a falsehood to show it is not free of error.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do because when I look at there claims and what they believe it’s obvious to me the Quran isn’t close to the Bible, neither is Muhammed to Jesus Christ.

And yet it is obvious to all those christians who convert to islam.
The point. You keep missing it.

They don’t even know if they have eternal life or not, they have no guarantee of anything other than death in this life. Notice how the higher ups aren’t suicide bombers themselves compared to Jesus Christ giving his life for us.

Another so-what argument

I don’t really care what you believe or don’t believe, the discussion was that the Bible is unique compared to any other book.

Every book is "unique".

You or someone else brought up the other books for comparison and that was that. They don’t compare with the Bible.

And muslims say no books compare to the quran.
Your head is lodged so firmly into the ground, you are unable to see what else is out there with those bible blinders on.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Baha'u'llah had three wives because He was raised as a Muslim, and that is the Islamic tradition. Islamic law states that four wives are allowed.
Baha'u'llah already had three wives before He became aware of His mission from God.

The Baha'i law that Baha'u'llah revealed in His Book of Laws allows for only one wife.

He was born in sin and conceived by two earthly parents, he had the sin nature and needed to be born again.
They had a different message:
Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.


— Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, Bish

There is no unity of religions, Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, He is worshipped and far above anyone else. Prophets and Apostles are men and need to repent like everyone else and can be true or false. Baha’u’llah was a false teacher and a man.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And muslims say no books compare to the quran.
Your head is lodged so firmly into the ground, you are unable to see what else is out there with those bible blinders on.

I tested the others before I came to Jesus Christ and found they were all fakes and counterfeits,
Including what the world has to offer.
My mind and sight are set on heavenly things and His perspective not in the ground, yet you are still
groping around in the dark. Do you discern spiritual things?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Here's just one simple detail: the bible puts camels in an area where they weren't. It's off by several centuries.

I need just one example of a falsehood to show it is not free of error.

Camels in Genesis are Right Where They Belong

Rabbi Joshua Berman has recently responded to skeptics who claim that domesticated camels in Genesis are an anachronism.

biblearchaeology.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

I tested the others before I came to Jesus Christ and found they were all fakes and counterfeits,
Including what the world has to offer.
My mind and sight are set on heavenly things and His perspective not in the ground, yet you are still
groping around in the dark. Do you discern spiritual things?

But you have demonstrated that you have not even tested your own Bible properly. How can you test the works of others if you are too afraid to properly test your own?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Camels in Genesis are Right Where They Belong

Rabbi Joshua Berman has recently responded to skeptics who claim that domesticated camels in Genesis are an anachronism.

biblearchaeology.org

Try to find a reliable source if you want to be taken seriously.