God is 'evil'

[Gloone]

So you would take a "scientific explanation" and get hit by a rubber ball instead of moving out of the way and choosing not to get hit by it.

 

[Madhuri]

So you would take a "scientific explanation" and get hit by a rubber ball instead of moving out of the way and choosing not to get hit by it.

Even my bad explanation should not have brought you to this conclusion.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Erm, why does Satan have to exist in order for God to exist? You're assuming that there are two competing entities. And to be honest, this scenario is polytheistic.

Further more, if the competing entity happens to not be God but a lesser personality trying to take God's place, God would not have to be 'bad' in order to win if he is omniscient, omnipotent etc. He would know everything that is going to happen and be smart enough to not let it happen.

I think from history's lessons all powerful leaders are usually tyrannical dictators if they have to suppress any opposition so ruthlessly they effectively negate any competing entity we take so much for granted in a democratic society. People as it frequently pans out are as equally afraid and commit complete respect (if not more) than of the God central to their religion than people living under authoritarian dictatorships respect their leaders because there is inherently no possible alternative.

 

[Caladan]

Yet this childish god is followed by childish people...it's fitting when you think about it.

Abuse it sells every time.

 

[Madhuri]

I think from history's lessons all powerful leaders are usually tyrannical dictators if they have to suppress any opposition so ruthlessly they effectively negate any competing entity we take so much for granted in a democratic society. People as it frequently pans out are as equally afraid and commit complete respect (if not more) than of the God central to their religion than people living under authoritarian dictatorships respect their leaders because there is inherently no possible alternative.

I don't understand how this relates back to the discussion.
We are not talking about a specific God concept here. You said that if there is a God, he must be etc. etc.
But you're assuming that there is some force competing with this hypothetical God, which must mean this God is bad if he suppresses it. Why assume there is an opposition in the first place?

 

[839311]

On a side note if God really didn't want suffering in this world then he would remove it., but since there is suffering in this world then God for one reason or another wants suffering to exist in this world.

And that reason is?

 

[rusra02]

Okay I've been thinking recently now. There are some people in this world that say God is evil because he lt's all this bad stuff happen and babies die and what not. But the fact still remains those people are still going to die one day, but then they say why couldn't they live out their lifes to the fullest? But what right does anybody have to say that I should live over this person. So I believe that God is neither good nor evil, but in the middle doing both good and bad to keep the universe in order....that is if God is real.

No, God is not evil. Neither does he bring evil upon people to test them. God does not cause a murderer to kill a young child so he can have that child with him in heaven. These are terrible lies about God.
"When under trial, let no one say: "I am being tried by God." For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone." (James 1:13)
Far from being indifferent, God is caring and loving to all. (James 1:17)
1 Peter 3:7 assures us "he cares for you."
The blame for man's suffering rests with Satan the Devil, and with man himself.
God doesn't force us to hate or murder our fellowman. Those choices are ours. So we should not blame God when it happens.

 

[opuntia]

Time is relevant here because we are finite and He is not. We know we only have a short time and therefore we should do what is necessary and not what we would like to do, i.e. skydiving, gambling, drinking, drugs, etc. Many people fritter their lives away on frivolous activities, in this life they can do so. But since we are examining an afterlife (if God is in our argument), what we do here will be relevant there.

So, whenever we see bad things we do not approve of, we may understand that a time will come when all things will be rectified (Revelation 7:9-17). People will commit horrific acts and will someday pay for them, if they do not repent or make amends that is.

 

[infamousjovian]

Suffering, in my opinion, is a product of human imperfections. I do not blame God.

 

[JustWondering]

There is one component you forget, JW, which is His Guidance

My family was protestant but we didn't go to church but a handfull of times that I can remember. I was never really bombarded with religous dogma while growing up. Certainly not Islamic dogma. The only guidance I've known is that of my parents, teachers, and elders. I do not believe that there is some kind of supernatural creator god out there that cares about us let alone guides anyone. Your concept of god simply makes no sense to me.

We have both good and evil instincts, and by following God's Guidance we nurture all good instincts and minimize bad instincts

1. Different instincts developed in different species to help them survive and thrive. They are neither good or evil.

2. Using the free will arguement to explain why bad things happen and why there is suffering in the world just does not work. According to this arguement god wants obiedient human worshippers but they only have value to him if they are defective and many will fall short of meeting his standards due to these defects (that he, the creator, gave us!). How does that make sense. It is like I own a jelly bean company and for some irrational reason think that some jelly beans can only truly taste good if there are nasty tasting jelly beans to compare them to (or something). Therefore, in every bag of jelly beans my company turns out there are jelly beans in it that taste like poo. When I compare god concepts and the arguements that support them to reality using reason and common sense they fall apart every time. Which is why I am not a christian anymore.

Praying, fasting, remembering God and other forms of worship help believers become good people, and this helps them establish justice and fight injustice which is what God wants us to do.

It is not neccessary to worship gods for there to be peace and justice in the world.

Free will to choose God's Path is a real choice, it is not an illusion ...

The "choice" to follow (Insert your god's name here)'s path depends on a persons enviroment. In most cases, a persons society chooses their religion for them. For example, a person raised and surrounded by mormons all their life just doesn't wake up one morning a scientoligist. What normally happens is that person grows up to be a mormon who teaches their children to be mormon.

 

[JustWondering]

Okay if I were to throw a Big squishy rubber ball at you! Would you stand there or move out of the way?

I would instinctively move out of the way.

 

[JustWondering]

God doesn't force us to hate or murder our fellowman. Those choices are ours. So we should not blame God when it happens.

If a creator god does exist we can blame it for disease, natural disasters, and poverty.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I don't understand how this relates back to the discussion.
We are not talking about a specific God concept here. You said that if there is a God, he must be etc. etc.
But you're assuming that there is some force competing with this hypothetical God, which must mean this God is bad if he suppresses it. Why assume there is an opposition in the first place?

I can take on instance in history which sparked much debate in the Enlightenment and that is the Great Lisbon Earthquake on Nov 1st 1755. Clearly that "act of God" was extremely indiscriminate in it destruction and suffering it caused. Particularly when in on one of the holiest days on the Christian calendar and all the churches and cathedrals throughout Lisbon was packed with worshippers. As we know today large masonry buildings such as Medieval cathedrals are extremely dangerous places to be in the event of a major earthquake and as a consequence many of them were buried alive in tons of rubble.

If a terrorist from Al-Qaeda or a ruthless dictator had dynamited a cathedral when it was packed with worshippers and buried them on piles of rubble we would immediately and justly condemn that as an unspeakable act of evil, but for some reason many people condone their God for doing much the same thing on a much greater scale.

Fast forward now the Christchurch New Zealand we are seeing this "God" doing much the same thing on a lesser scale and we still don't know who is buried under the rubble of the Cathedral at Cathedral square as it was seriously damaged and it spire destroyed by the earthquake.

 

[Madhuri]

I can take on instance in history which sparked much debate in the Enlightenment and that is the Great Lisbon Earthquake on Nov 1st 1755. Clearly that "act of God" was extremely indiscriminate in it destruction and suffering it caused. Particularly when in on one of the holiest days on the Christian calendar and all the churches and cathedrals throughout Lisbon was packed with worshippers. As we know today large masonry buildings such as Medieval cathedrals are extremely dangerous places to be in the event of a major earthquake and as a consequence many of them were buried alive in tons of rubble.

If a terrorist from Al-Qaeda or a ruthless dictator had dynamited a cathedral when it was packed with worshippers and buried them on piles of rubble we would immediately and justly condemn that as an unspeakable act of evil, but for some reason many people condone their God for doing much the same thing on a much greater scale.

Fast forward now the Christchurch New Zealand we are seeing this "God" doing much the same thing on a lesser scale and we still don't know who is buried under the rubble of the Cathedral at Cathedral square as it was seriously damaged and it spire destroyed by the earthquake.

So you assume that if God exists, It must be directly controlling everything that happens in the world?

Actually, I still don't understand your point/argument.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

So you assume that if God exists, It must be directly controlling everything that happens in the world?

Actually, I still don't understand your point/argument.

An omnipotent and omniscient God would in a more classical theist interpretation of the word. Would you would be assuming a deist version of it where a god just pushes the button and lets nature do the rest, natural disasters and all?

 

[Madhuri]

An omnipotent and omniscient God would in a more classical theist interpretation of the word. Would you would be assuming a deist version of it where a god just pushes the button and lets nature do the rest, natural disasters and all?

My personal idea of God pretty complex but it destroys the ideas that there is such a thing as 'good' or 'evil'. The material universe, with its joys and miseries, has such a nature that allows itself to change and grow and continue. Nature itself is Divine, but it is not evil. It simply IS.

 

[Cordoba]

My family was protestant but we didn't go to church but a handfull of times that I can remember. I was never really bombarded with religous dogma while growing up. Certainly not Islamic dogma. The only guidance I've known is that of my parents, teachers, and elders. I do not believe that there is some kind of supernatural creator god out there that cares about us let alone guides anyone. Your concept of god simply makes no sense to me.

The Protestant faith, which in part is based on the original teachings of Jesus, peace be upon him, has part of God's guidance. And the basic teachings are the same in Judaism and Islam: do good to others - especially parents, neighbors, relatives - don't steal, don't kill, don't lie, ... etc

Using the free will arguement to explain why bad things happen and why there is suffering in the world just does not work. According to this arguement god wants obiedient human worshippers but they only have value to him if they are defective and many will fall short of meeting his standards due to these defects (that he, the creator, gave us!). How does that make sense.

Think of it this way: Which is more valuable: to obey and love a leader freely or to obey a dictator because one has no other choice?

Same here

God created angels in a way that they can only obey Him - that is one relation

With humans, He created us with a free will: we can either choose to obey Him, or we can choose to disobey Him - that's a totally different relation as it's based on free will

 

[That one dude...]

God is real, and He is a Merciful God

Good and evil things which happen in this world are due to our free will

He gave mankind free will, and when free will is used in the wrong way, that's when people suffer

Had we not had free will, we would have lived a life of angels ...

Yes, like the free will of a few men to hijack planes and kill many innocent people in the name of religion or my free will to make that comment when it's uncalled for. My apologies. Common decency would be a defunct term without free will to do what is right. So, whether used for good purposes or not, I could not and don't want to imagine a life without free will. That is not a life for me.

 

[Cordoba]

Yep, free will is a basic human right

God wants us to be free

(Free from addictions, free from oppression and free from all what takes away our free will)

He is a Kind God, a Loving God and He wants what is good for us, that is why He sent us His Guidance (to live a happy life here and in the hereafter)

 

[That one dude...]

Yep, free will is a basic human right

God wants us to be free

(Free from addictions, free from oppression and free from all what takes away our free will)

He is a Kind God, a Loving God and He wants what is good for us, that is why He sent us His Guidance (to live a happy life here and in the hereafter)

So why would a god who allows free will and who wants us to be free be considered evil? I don't understand that...