God is simple, not complex.

[Ouroboros]

I thought it to be quite interesting as well, but it kinda makes sense. I don't think there is anything wrong with having opinions but to hold an idea of God as a fact when we truly don't know is quite arrogant in my opinion.

Agree.

That's the reason why I tend to ask many questions when people start arguing or "proving" their particular God. God is a word that we define, each one of us personally. It's like a box where we put stuff we like and put the label "God" on the lid. No one can prove that their personal view of what God is is the right one.

 

[AllanV]

Which is a set of books written by people with opinions about God. Just because someone wrote down what they thought a long time ago doesn't make them right. I think many Christians make an idol of their Bible and their religion and can't see beyond the words.


Sure.

Years ago I had an experience (as an atheist) of a complete and full unity with the universe. I felt that everything is One, and I was part of it. That day I started to understand pantheism.

I would have been atheist when that occurred but it just happened when I explained what had happened to my wife now ex she had a small pocket sized Bible. There were all sorts of other people interacted with and one was John Searle's local group because I became interested in the different aspects of an alternate technology.

 

[Desert Snake]

Atheists seem to have this basic misunderstanding that God is complex. This is not true. God is simple, not complex. In theology, this is known as the doctrine of "divine simplicity." (This is why I can argue that God is the most parsimonious explanation for why there is something rather than nothing.)

Don't you lose the meaning of 'God', then?
Seems silly.

 

[Straw Dog]

Atheists seem to have this basic misunderstanding that God is complex. This is not true. God is simple, not complex. In theology, this is known as the doctrine of "divine simplicity." (This is why I can argue that God is the most parsimonious explanation for why there is something rather than nothing.)

Yeah, but isn't complexity more interesting than simplicity, ergo we are more interesting than God.

 

[Ouroboros]

Don't you lose the meaning of 'God', then?
Seems silly.

LOL! That's also a good point. There's lot of good thoughts in this thread.

That's so true, if God is defined as the absolute simplest thing we can think of, wouldn't it conflict with (I think it's Anselm's argument?) that God is the greatest thing we can think of. If God is the greatest thing, and also the absolute simplest thing, I feel we're creating the Ouroboros (my avatar). How the head is biting the tail. God is both ends, and everything in between.

 

[Ouroboros]

I would have been atheist when that occurred but it just happened when I explained what had happened to my wife now ex she had a small pocket sized Bible. There were all sorts of other people interacted with and one was John Searle's local group because I became interested in the different aspects of an alternate technology.

I used to carry around a pocket Bible and witnessed to people on the bus and on the train. I read that thing all the time, everywhere I went. Kind'a missed out on what everyone else did during the teenage years. But I got to talk to a lot of people at least.

 

[Straw Dog]

If there is a creator, then he must be boring. Why else would he create something more interesting than him?

 

[mainliner]

God doesn't know these words ..... Simplicity and complexity

its like good and evil ...... There is no such thing

a world full of good people wouldn't know the word good unless evil is raised ..... It needs a comparison

all this will make sense 100,075 years into eternal heaven where the word EVIL will exist no more and the word GOOD will have nothing to be compared to ....... Good and evil wont exist

just like simplicity and complexity



hope this makes sense ...... Its called innocence ( no good nor evil ) just the truth

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Amen. (That's better)

Divine nature, as it says in the quote, could perhaps be also written Nature Divine.

Amen. I think we're on the same wavelength. God is life, and Life is God. Existence, reality, nature, all of it, all of us too, mind and matter, ties together as one unity, which we can call God. Nothing is simpler than that.

 

[AllanV]

I used to carry around a pocket Bible and witnessed to people on the bus and on the train. I read that thing all the time, everywhere I went. Kind'a missed out on what everyone else did during the teenage years. But I got to talk to a lot of people at least.

Sorry to hear that, but there are a lot of youngsters out there and they are parroting words off as we write no doubt.
That experience occurred at 26 years and there was no interest in religion at all, didn't know what it was about. I had a look at religion after it but have gone a full circle. Most of my time was spent developing projects.
My young life was a bit unrestrained but nothing too bad.

 

[Ouroboros]

Sorry to here that, but there are a lot of youngsters out there and they are parroting words off as we write no doubt.
That experience occurred at 26 years and there was no interest in religion at all, didn't know what it was about. I had a look at religion after it but have gone a full circle. Most of my time was spent developing projects.
My young life was a bit unrestrained but nothing too bad.

In my case, I accepted Jesus at the age of 7. Alone in my parents kitchen. I made my own little eucharist, some bread and grape juice. Got baptized and accepted in church at 11 (I think it was, or 12). Got baptized in the "holy spirit" a year later (speaking in tongues, and can still do today). Went to Bible school some time later. Went on mission trips, knocked on doors, evangelized, and so on. Worked for the church. Worked in a "Christian" company for years. I was all in. Put my kids in Christian school, etc. The whole shebang.

 

[AllanV]

If there is a creator, then he must be boring. Why else would he create something more interesting than him?

Why wouldn't He create something interesting. We just have to clean up the act a little and there is the potential of being immortal.

 

[Straw Dog]

Why wouldn't He create something interesting. We just have to clean up the act a little and there is the potential of being immortal.

Which drama is more interesting though? The one where everyone cleans up their act on the straight and narrow or the one where everyone ends up breaking bad?

 

[AllanV]

In my case, I accepted Jesus at the age of 7. Alone in my parents kitchen. I made my own little eucharist, some bread and grape juice. Got baptized and accepted in church at 11 (I think it was, or 12). Got baptized in the "holy spirit" a year later (speaking in tongues, and can still do today). Went to Bible school some time later. Went on mission trips, knocked on doors, evangelized, and so on. Worked for the church. Worked in a "Christian" company for years. I was all in. Put my kids in Christian school, etc. The whole shebang.

You would have formed a strong view and belief with all that experience. I don't like the church life I have no discipline sometimes I work self employed and am a bit independent. But there have been nasty things occurring that have been witnessed. It helped me get a better idea of what was already known but I didn't get it, it hadn't sunk in therefore I put my family through something unpleasant. It wasn't for long.

 

[AllanV]

Which drama is more interesting though? The one where everyone cleans up their act on the straight and narrow or the one where everyone ends up breaking bad?

There are some bad people out there who will impose on others and why be lumped in with them. Things could get really bad. It is not much point standing against them you would have to join or die.

 

[Straw Dog]

There are some bad people out there who will impose on others and why be lumped in with them. Things could get really bad. It is not much point standing against them you would have to join or die.

Yes, some people can behave very badly, but things are not really so black and white in practice. I'm not really a joiner of any group because I find groupthink to be corrosive to the creative process. I prefer to think for myself.

What do you think about for yourself?

 

[AllanV]

Yes, some people can behave very badly, but things are not really so black and white in practice. I'm not really a joiner of any group because I find groupthink to be corrosive to the creative process. I prefer to think for myself.

What do you think about for yourself?

I think out of a different mind, it is not so driven by biology and nature traits that show up in a personality as read by others. I don't worry how other people treat me or what they say or how they say it.
I work on technology, self employed.

 

[Ouroboros]

You would have formed a strong view and belief with all that experience.

The only strong view I had was that I believed God was real and Jesus was God's son, and a literal interpretation of the Bible. Other than that, I belonged to three (or four if you count one short time) churches. Pentecostal, Word of Life (Faith movement), and Vineyard (I met Chuck a few times). So I was flexible, as long as the church had the "right" message. Funny how things can change. We think we have the truth and one day we wake up and realize that the truth we had was just unsupported opinions.

I don't like the church life I have no discipline sometimes I work self employed and am a bit independent.

We were independent for a while before we "feel off the wagon". The disciple of going to church on Sunday mornings started to get to difficult with my special needs son. We had to get up so friggin' early to get him ready. And we didn't feel we were getting anything anymore. Nothing excited us spiritually. We didn't feel God was talking to us, at all, in any way. And with "we" I'm referring to myself, my wife, and my kids. We all basically felt the same thing.

But there have been nasty things occurring that have been witnessed.

Yeah. Me too. That's one of the reasons I lost my faith.

It helped me get a better idea of what was already known but I didn't get it, it hadn't sunk in therefore I put my family through something unpleasant. It wasn't for long.

For us, it was the unpleasant things that happened to us that pushed us in the direction we went. We lost faith partly because of what we experienced.

 

[Gambit]

And a catalyst lacking intentionality is simpler. Your parsimony argument is semantic silliness.

A "catalyst" is not self-explanatory.

 

[Gambit]

I rarely use Wikipedia, if any.

Well, maybe you should start. You might learn something.

In this case, maybe God is too simplistic.

Simple, not simplistic.

I mean, I believe God is life itself.

I don't know what you mean.