God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

[gnostic]

I have reason to believe God set all things in motion.

What you believe in, is not science, just your personal belief in your god and heavy does of pseudoscience.

Please stop thinking that you lean towards science, when clearly you don't.

Yes, you have reason to "believe"...that's the operative word "believe". Your belief is what make that you don't know what science is all about.

 

[idea]

But none of those, would require "god" to be answer for any of the above.

Thief tried repeatedly tried to insert God into the equation of cause-and-effect, without substance or evidence to support his claim.

I could substitute his insertion with the word "fairy" into his style of cause-and-effect, and the same pseudoscience rubbish would come out.

Without evidences, then it is not science, no matter what his declaration to "cause and effect".

That which acts, and that which is acted upon....

Do you believe there is something that is able to act? If so, what do you quantify that substance as being?

 

[gnostic]

That which acts, and that which is acted upon....

Do you believe there is something that is able to act? If so, what do you quantify that substance as being?

Are you talking about "substance" or "being"?

 

[idea]

Are you talking about "substance" or "being"?

I guess it comes down to the question of free will. Your beliefs, your personality - do you believe that these were caused by outside sources (Nature/Nurture), or do you believe there is some part of yourself that was not caused? or that was self-caused? Do you have ideas and theories that are your own - not copied from another? Have you ever created anything new? Do you have free will? Are you a creator, a creation, or both?

That which acts, and that which is acted upon.... cause and effect ...

 

[gnostic]

I guess it comes down to the question of free will. Your beliefs, your personality - do you believe that these were caused by outside sources (Nature/Nurture), or do you believe there is some part of yourself that was not caused? or that was self-caused? Do you have ideas and theories that are your own - not copied from another? Have you ever created anything new? Do you have free will?

I see no reason or evidences that god is involved in any way of life, others than that a lot of people still believe in superstitions that this "god" or that "spirit" are somehow involve.

When I was in my mid-teen to late teen, I used to believe in god and miracles, not because I know that god is real or that I have seen this miracles myself, but because the bible and my sister's church say-so...so you could the church tried to nurture this belief into me, via the bible. God had no part in this nurturing. There are no evidences that God had ever listen to my prayers, let alone answer them; all the church would say about the prayers is that I have to taken it on "faith".

So I had 3 choices:

1. Whole-heartedly accept the belief (faith), without question.
   
2. Accept the faith, but have doubts and questions still.
3. Or leave the church, because of those doubts.

I nearly join 2 different churches, when i was a teenager. I came to realisation that joining my sister's church would be because of my sister's faith, and not my own. The 2nd church that I was going to join, but didn't because I got into a very heated-argument with my pastor, because he didn't like the questions I was asking.

Would you call this - what happened to me back then - free-will or fate? Would you call it nature or nurture?

 

[idea]

I see no reason or evidences that god is involved in any way of life, others than that a lot of people still believe in superstitions that this "god" or that "spirit" are somehow involve.

When I was in my mid-teen to late teen, I used to believe in god and miracles, not because I know that god is real or that I have seen this miracles myself, but because the bible and my sister's church say-so...so you could the church tried to nurture this belief into me, via the bible. God had no part in this nurturing. There are no evidences that God had ever listen to my prayers, let alone answer them; all the church would say about the prayers is that I have to taken it on "faith".

So I had 3 choices:

1. Whole-heartedly accept the belief (faith), without question.
   
2. Accept the faith, but have doubts and questions still.
3. Or leave the church, because of those doubts.

I nearly join 2 different churches, when i was a teenager. I came to realisation that joining my sister's church would be because of my sister's faith, and not my own. The 2nd church that I was going to join, but didn't because I got into a very heated-argument with my pastor, because he didn't like the questions I was asking.

Would you call this - what happened to me back then - free-will or fate? Would you call it nature or nurture?

I did not ask about God, I asked about how you view yourself. Who we are does not come from our sister or our family (nature - DNA), our beliefs also do not come from our environment (Nurture - how we were brought up), so where do our beliefs come from? There is more than nurture/nature. I think they come from within, they are not "caused", we do not have to allow ourselves to be "acted upon", we have the ability to act. The amazing thing about this ability to act (rather than to be acted upon) is that it takes us out of the cause/effect chain.


What are the implications of free will? the implications of not being "caused", of not being created... of having the ability to create ourselves? We create our own beliefs, our own personality, our own thoughts - we create art, music, technology. We are creators. I believe the intelligence/conscience/spirit within each of us is eternal and un-created, that this is the only way free-will exists. (If you were created, then everything about you could be traced back to how you were created - like the actions of a robot can all be traced back to how it was programmed). Recognizing the eternal un-created free will within people is one step towards recognizing the intelligence/conscience/spirit within. Once the spirit is recognized, the next step is wondering if there are greater and lesser spirits, and if there are spirits with greater intelligence, what would the upper limit to this be? Who is the one with the greatest intelligence? I believe that this is who we call God - who we call "Heavenly Father", and that God is cleaning up a mess He did not create....

The word "create" has many different meanings... If I say I created a piece of art, does this mean I made the atoms in the paint, that I made the canvas? No, it just means I organized matter that already existed into something a little more beautiful than it was before... This is how I view the creation of God - that it is a process, not of making something from nothing, but of an entity that is trying to organize the eternally existing uncreated unmolded unrefined spirits. ... that is what the original Hebrew word seems to indicate.

Blessings on your spiritual journey - may you find your own beliefs, and come to a personal knowledge of who you are and what you can become.

 

[outhouse]

our beliefs also do not come from our environment

Your factually wrong. You have no leg to stand on.

Where you are born factually affects your belief.

 

[outhouse]

Blessings on your spiritual journey - may you find your own beliefs, and come to a personal knowledge of who you are and what you can become.

Any chance you could stay on topic to the earth factually not being 6000 years old?

 

[idea]

Your factually wrong. You have no leg to stand on.

Where you are born factually affects your belief.

I do not share the same beliefs as my parents do... Do you? Certainly we are all influenced by the people around us, but in the end none of us are carbon copies of our surroundings - we each hold unique individual beliefs that come more from within us, than from our environment. ...

I suppose some people are followers - "sheeple", but there are a lot of us who do not just follow the crowd.

Any chance you could stay on topic to the earth factually not being 6000 years old?

It's a thread about the nature of creation. For those of us who do not believe in ex-Nihlo creationism, the 6,000 year time period is not a measure of how old our world is, only of how old an era is. Genesis describes the beginning of a new era.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_creator.html

Child Root (Branches of the Tree)

Pronunciation: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; "God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foreign concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for.



God "created" the heavens and the earth is better translated to God "organized" or "transformed" the heavens and the earth.

 

[outhouse]

I do not share the same beliefs as my parents do... Do you? Certainly we are all influenced by the people around us, but in the end none of us are carbon copies of our surroundings - we each hold unique individual beliefs that come more from within us, than from our environment. ...

I suppose some people are followers - "sheeple", but there are a lot of us who do not just follow the crowd.



It's a thread about the nature of creation. For those of us who do not believe in ex-Nihlo creationism, the 6,000 year time period is not a measure of how old our world is, only of how old an era is. Genesis describes the beginning of a new era.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_creator.html

Child Root (Branches of the Tree)

Pronunciation: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; "God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foreign concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for.



God "created" the heavens and the earth is better translated to God "organized" or "transformed" the heavens and the earth.

You have provided nothing that refutes the factual age of the earth.

 

[idea]

You have provided nothing that refutes the factual age of the earth.

??? It was not my intention to dispute the age of the earth.... I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

 

[outhouse]

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

No, you missed the point of this thread.

 

[Desert Snake]

??? It was not my intention to dispute the age of the earth.... I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

People cant figure out hold old the soft drink is, in the cooler; I wouldn't worry about details.

 

[Milton Platt]

I did not ask about God, I asked about how you view yourself. Who we are does not come from our sister or our family (nature - DNA), our beliefs also do not come from our environment (Nurture - how we were brought up), so where do our beliefs come from? There is more than nurture/nature. I think they come from within, they are not "caused", we do not have to allow ourselves to be "acted upon", we have the ability to act. The amazing thing about this ability to act (rather than to be acted upon) is that it takes us out of the cause/effect chain.


What are the implications of free will? the implications of not being "caused", of not being created... of having the ability to create ourselves? We create our own beliefs, our own personality, our own thoughts - we create art, music, technology. We are creators. I believe the intelligence/conscience/spirit within each of us is eternal and un-created, that this is the only way free-will exists. (If you were created, then everything about you could be traced back to how you were created - like the actions of a robot can all be traced back to how it was programmed). Recognizing the eternal un-created free will within people is one step towards recognizing the intelligence/conscience/spirit within. Once the spirit is recognized, the next step is wondering if there are greater and lesser spirits, and if there are spirits with greater intelligence, what would the upper limit to this be? Who is the one with the greatest intelligence? I believe that this is who we call God - who we call "Heavenly Father", and that God is cleaning up a mess He did not create....

The word "create" has many different meanings... If I say I created a piece of art, does this mean I made the atoms in the paint, that I made the canvas? No, it just means I organized matter that already existed into something a little more beautiful than it was before... This is how I view the creation of God - that it is a process, not of making something from nothing, but of an entity that is trying to organize the eternally existing uncreated unmolded unrefined spirits. ... that is what the original Hebrew word seems to indicate.

Blessings on your spiritual journey - may you find your own beliefs, and come to a personal knowledge of who you are and what you can become.

Your factually wrong. You have no leg to stand on.

Where you are born factually affects your belief.

Totally correct.

 

[`mud]

Somewhere here, someone has to get an Idea of what an idea is ?
Doesn't one ? What's the OP ?
hey Out
~
gone
'mud

 

[BilliardsBall]

10 first century historians? Which would those be then?

Source: Dr. N. Geisler, "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist".

 

[BilliardsBall]

He is known for his proselytizing and lack of debating.

You don't find it admirable to show love and avoid debates?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm happy you've had many conversations before - but let's just focus on this one..

What evidence can there possibly be for something that does not exist?
What evidence could there possibly against it? If something is real, there is some sort of tangible, quantifiable, verifiable evidence, somewhere, right?
I something is not real, then what evidence could you ever provide for disproving it, other than the fact that there is an immense lack of positive evidence?

Do you see this works? It is not word play - It is incredibly simple logic.

If a Supernatural claim is to have any merit whatsoever in a rational discussion, then it has to be substantiated with something other than personal conviction. Surely you agree with that statement.
If I said there was a lion in my house, you could easily prove or disprove that claim. But if I told you the Lion was invisible and you simply had to have faith that there was a lion in my house... well that would change everything wouldn't it? You certainly wouldn't accept that there was lion sleeping on my sofa, just because I was very adamant about the invisible lion, would you? Wouldn't you naturally expect more proof of the invisible lion than just my boisterous claims, regardless of how sincere they were?

Of course you would!

So if you want to make a claim for the supernatural, or the metaphysical, or from a place of devout conviction - you're simply going to have to supply something more substantial than saying "This is my belief, and I REALLY REALLY believe it, so you have you accept it as being true!"



Empirical data is the supreme standard by which to measure reality - relying on anything else would allow for any and all suggestions to be considered equal.

Without empirical standards, the assertion that the Solar System is Geocentric and ruled over by a Master Race of Flying Squirrels is equal to the assertion that the Solar System is Helicentric and adheres to the Laws of Physics.

Did you want me to respond? I see only rhetoric here in your post. To prove empiricism while only using empirical data as the standard for proving everything is a circular argument.

 

[BilliardsBall]

All,

Not only have you hijacked the thread utterly, but a number of you now are making some arguments against all metaphysics and spiritual entities. What is your justification for proselytizing atheism at ReligiousForums.com?

PS. Yes, I read through the canards and arguments made against the scriptures here. Please at least make arguments from the Bible if you insist on doing so, rather than what you read on atheist websites that the Bible "says".

Thanks!

 

[outhouse]

Source: Dr. N. Geisler, "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist".

NOT credible in any way! he is apologetic biased, not a scientist or historian. Worthless in debate of age of the earth