God(s) don't create morals or moral systems . . .

[charles brough]

I beleive moral evolves from inside out from what God made us with in the first place.

Ultimately, feeling angry doesn´t feel "nice" even for the angry person, and most of his biological system would agree with me.

This is a mother's-instinctive compassion statement, not that of a man. It has been proven that anger causes the blood pressure to drop in men while rise in women. Men learn early that if they do not feel and express anger when taken advantage of or when their family is threatened, others are tempted to take advantage of them.

 

[charles brough]

God does give pretty good morals. Just last night God told me I could cut a persons foot off if they step on my land without permission. God is very just and reasonable like that. Suprised it didn't make it into the bible or quran(i'll have to check).

Yes, there is an innate basis for the private property concept. We are territorial animals and if our numbers keep increasing, we branch out and grab more territory. What we possess becomes "ours" and is "sacred" to us.

And certainly, the Old Testament tribes were territorial! Vertually the whole Near East was supposedly promised to them by Yaweh their tribal god. It still is. They are not just willing to cut of feet in order to get it back. They have nuclear weapons . . .:yes:

 

[Matthew78]

We do not have moral systems because they are imposed on us. We have them because we are social beings. We evolved as small-group primates through millions of years of evolution. In order for such social groups to function, each member had to have evolved in him or her a set of innate social/moral feeling, conscience, instinct or "hard wiring" in order for the group to survive. This is true with most mammals and all primates.

If you do a favor for someone but that person does not bother to return the favor when you need it, it is normal to feel angry. It has been observed that a male chimp can get angry enough to attack the one who failed to return the favor. That is our sense of both fairness and justice. The Alpha male's dedication to protecting the group is another. His controlling the male juveniles is still another. Mothers caring for their young also.

Our moral systems are only a specific and agreed upon manner of expressing our social nature so that our enlarged groups can operate more efficiently. They are not made and imposed by "God's" but evolve through a process of natural selection termed "social evolution" in book "The Last Civilization."

Name any moral law and let's see if I can't come up with innate social source of it . . .

This sounds like one of Christopher Hitchens' arguments: we don't need the moral imperatives of a celestial dictatorship because we have an innate sense of fairness.

 

[waitasec]

Name any moral law and let's see if I can't come up with innate social source of it . . .

how about saving your neighbors soul from hell...
is that considered a moral law?

 

[Spirited]

We do not have moral systems because they are imposed on us. We have them because we are social beings. We evolved as small-group primates through millions of years of evolution. In order for such social groups to function, each member had to have evolved in him or her a set of innate social/moral feeling, conscience, instinct or "hard wiring" in order for the group to survive. This is true with most mammals and all primates.

If you do a favor for someone but that person does not bother to return the favor when you need it, it is normal to feel angry. It has been observed that a male chimp can get angry enough to attack the one who failed to return the favor. That is our sense of both fairness and justice. The Alpha male's dedication to protecting the group is another. His controlling the male juveniles is still another. Mothers caring for their young also.

Our moral systems are only a specific and agreed upon manner of expressing our social nature so that our enlarged groups can operate more efficiently. They are not made and imposed by "God's" but evolve through a process of natural selection termed "social evolution" in book "The Last Civilization."

Name any moral law and let's see if I can't come up with innate social source of it . . .

Why would any law created by a rational higher power NOT have a social reason behind it? Are you suggesting that people believe in things that don't seem to have any rational explanation? I would also like to see the evidence that we are in fact descended from apes. I don't mind the idea, I just prefer to look at things empirically, rather than take the word that "it is probably out there, we just havn't found it yet" from a person who's job title "human evolutionist" hinges on the existence of said being.

Find me this missing link and I will frubal you into the atmosphere, otherwise your statements are hardly more possible to verify than my belief in Dawkins' Spaghetti Monster (but I did see it once on a night flight over Paris!).