God talking

[Unveiled Artist]

I accept that the Bible works as a unit, I do not accept that I can find any one verse or passage, that, in context, says I have to do anything, even say thank you, for this gift. If I lend you money, I expect it back, if I gift you money--according to the Bible, I should give the gift secretly, without even telling anyone--and expect zero in return.

And yes, I'm separating the gift, function and gratitude since we've both given gifts to ungrateful recipients, and since the Bible says God's gifts are irrevocable. I've given gifts to two-year-olds and people who never thanked me and the gift did not magically disappear.

The Bible very, very, very specifically, in dozens of passages, contrasts the gift of salvation with earning salvation or demonstrating salvation and says very specifically, "gift, not of works," and "gift, not of deeds," and also, Unveiled, it says specifically, many times, "gift, not of Law," and "gift, not of human effort," and "gift of God, not of a person's will or desire," etc.

Indeed, I'm familiar with all the NT passages that SEEM to say of effort--and the closest is James 2, which is talking about dead faith/trust and living faith/trust. PLEASE be careful--IMHO, the Bible says that those who feel they have to help Jesus save them may not actually be saved.

The whole Bible does not separate gift, deed, and devotion. That's what the Bible teaches. It's not specific verses (though I quoted them), it's the full Bible.

Taking one verse over another makes the Bible contradict itself. One verse says deeds are from, with, and through god (already quoted) then you are saying salvation is only through faith. Unless it's a contradiction

In christianity, the Bible both OT and NT obedience and faith are explicit as a unit. When I quote I pull out verses before and after so you understand it in context.

It's not something you Need to do but something you Want to

Because you love god.

When children grow up parents ideally show children how to be grateful.

It's not something they need to do (not required). It's something innate that the whole Bible tells you how to live in salvation.

I think you are picking the Bible apart, honestly.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The whole Bible does not separate gift, deed, and devotion. That's what the Bible teaches. It's not specific verses (though I quoted them), it's the full Bible.

Taking one verse over another makes the Bible contradict itself. One verse says deeds are from, with, and through god (already quoted) then you are saying salvation is only through faith. Unless it's a contradiction

In christianity, the Bible both OT and NT obedience and faith are explicit as a unit. When I quote I pull out verses before and after so you understand it in context.

It's not something you Need to do but something you Want to

Because you love god.

When children grow up parents ideally show children how to be grateful.

It's not something they need to do (not required). It's something innate that the whole Bible tells you how to live in salvation.

I think you are picking the Bible apart, honestly.

The Full Bible, every book and passage I can find, says this:

1. Trust God for salvation
2. Trust Jesus for salvation
3. Do not trust one's self for salvation
4. People who feel they can earn their salvation aren't saved, since this demeans the beautiful things Christ has done, and these people will be judged as sinners

We can also address what you're saying this way:

1. A gift is something given to someone who doesn't deserve it and hasn't earned it (like a birthday gift for simply surviving 365 more days)
2. Gifts are given in love but "good people" show gratitude for receiving unearned gifts
3. Good Christians show their gratitude
4. God doesn't take sinners who receive the gift of Jesus to Heaven, instead, He takes all the good people into Heaven

"Good people in Heaven" is other religions. Christianity/the full, whole Bible is "No one can behave good enough in Heaven, so they are transformed by Christ's gift."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Full Bible, every book and passage I can find, says this:

1. Trust God for salvation
2. Trust Jesus for salvation
3.Do not trust one's self for salvation
4. People who feel they can earn their salvation aren't saved, since this demeans the beautiful things Christ has done, and these people will be judged as sinners

We can also address what you're saying this way:

1. A gift is something given to someone who doesn't deserve it and hasn't earned it (like a birthday gift for simply surviving 365 more days)

2. Gifts are given in love but "good people" show gratitude for receiving unearned gifts
3. Good Christians show their gratitude
4. God doesn't take sinners who receive the gift of Jesus to Heaven, instead, He takes all the good people into Heaven

"Good people in Heaven" is other religions. Christianity/the full, whole Bible is "No one can behave good enough in Heaven, so they are transformed by Christ's gift."

I'm honestly realizing you're not getting what I'm saying. I think you are already believe about deeds rather than stepping back and seeing if in the way the Bible describes it.

Example

"Do not trust one's self for salvation"

No.

I said that deeds of salvation is in god, through, and with god. It is not apart from god (not unrighteous).

Example

Colossians 3:17
James 4:17 (if you disobey this are you saved? If so, by what means is your salvation valid in sin?)

James 2:26 Since the Bible works as a unit, when you quote faith alone saves, faith save with righteous deeds from/through/in god. They can't be separates

Matthew 7:21-23 What is the Will of the Father to which you can ignore and yet still claim lord, lord you are saved?

Philippians 2:13

Ephesians 2:8-9 Righteous works for self does not lead to salvation. Since the Bible works as a unit, can you isolate this verse from others that relate faith and deeds or do they correlate without both words needing to be in one sentence?

Titus 3:14

I purposely searched and copy paste a few verses in regards to the Will of the father through righteous works from and through god only not of self.

Matthew 5:16 (saying thanks)

Matthew 6:1 Righteous works of god gives rewards in heaven; those of man does not (unit and context just flip it)

Ephesians 2:10

You're probably familiar with this

Ephesians 2:8-10 If the Bible works as a unit, isolated verses don't work unless it's a contradiction.

3 John 1:11 If salvation stood alone with faith this verse (and others) would be optional. You can do the will the devil your whole life and still be saved. Right?

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

-Salvation is void when faith is present without works. The context of the Bible is service to god, through god, with, and by him.

Not by oneself.

Not forced
Not demand

Something you do because you love him not because you feel forced.

Thats actually odd to feel that way about god asking you (not demanding) you to serve him.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Full Bible, every book and passage I can find, says this:

1. Trust God for salvation
2. Trust Jesus for salvation
3. Do not trust one's self for salvation
4. People who feel they can earn their salvation aren't saved, since this demeans the beautiful things Christ has done, and these people will be judged as sinners

We can also address what you're saying this way:

1. A gift is something given to someone who doesn't deserve it and hasn't earned it (like a birthday gift for simply surviving 365 more days)
2. Gifts are given in love but "good people" show gratitude for receiving unearned gifts
3. Good Christians show their gratitude
4. God doesn't take sinners who receive the gift of Jesus to Heaven, instead, He takes all the good people into Heaven

"Good people in Heaven" is other religions. Christianity/the full, whole Bible is "No one can behave good enough in Heaven, so they are transformed by Christ's gift."

I'll get to the rest later. My main point is on the post I just made.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm honestly realizing you're not getting what I'm saying. I think you are already believe about deeds rather than stepping back and seeing if in the way the Bible describes it.

Example

"Do not trust one's self for salvation"

No.

I said that deeds of salvation is in god, through, and with god. It is not apart from god (not unrighteous).

Example

Colossians 3:17
James 4:17 (if you disobey this are you saved? If so, by what means is your salvation valid in sin?)

James 2:26 Since the Bible works as a unit, when you quote faith alone saves, faith save with righteous deeds from/through/in god. They can't be separates

Matthew 7:21-23 What is the Will of the Father to which you can ignore and yet still claim lord, lord you are saved?

Philippians 2:13

Ephesians 2:8-9 Righteous works for self does not lead to salvation. Since the Bible works as a unit, can you isolate this verse from others that relate faith and deeds or do they correlate without both words needing to be in one sentence?

Titus 3:14

I purposely searched and copy paste a few verses in regards to the Will of the father through righteous works from and through god only not of self.

Matthew 5:16 (saying thanks)

Matthew 6:1 Righteous works of god gives rewards in heaven; those of man does not (unit and context just flip it)

Ephesians 2:10

You're probably familiar with this

Ephesians 2:8-10 If the Bible works as a unit, isolated verses don't work unless it's a contradiction.

3 John 1:11 If salvation stood alone with faith this verse (and others) would be optional. You can do the will the devil your whole life and still be saved. Right?

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

-Salvation is void when faith is present without works. The context of the Bible is service to god, through god, with, and by him.

Not by oneself.

Not forced
Not demand

Something you do because you love him not because you feel forced.

Thats actually odd to feel that way about god asking you (not demanding) you to serve him.

We agree! You do deeds because you love God, not because you feel forced or coerced. The reason? Salvation is a free gift and we show gratitude. I think you've got it now.

By the way, there are verses that talk about God's will--here's one that shows what God's will is:

"God wills that all persons (would choose to) be saved and come to knowledge of the truth," restated as "God's will: everyone trust Jesus for the free gift."

Thanks!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We agree! You do deeds because you love God, not because you feel forced or coerced. The reason? Salvation is a free gift and we show gratitude. I think you've got it now.

By the way, there are verses that talk about God's will--here's one that shows what God's will is:

"God wills that all persons (would choose to) be saved and come to knowledge of the truth," restated as "God's will: everyone trust Jesus for the free gift."

Thanks!

Thank you.

Edit. That is what I've been trying to tell you the whole time: Deeds are gratitude.

My only point was not to separate deeds from salvation; they are one.

Separating them is a preference just as combining them are. Neither are wrong biblically, I just see it more personal when ones deeds are interlocked with ones faith and salvation etc. Like jesus and god are one, so are deeds and faith are one in and as salvation itself.

Remember. I'm not saying you need deeds to be saved. I just read biblically that without deeds one is not acting in his salvation.

That's like if my parent gives me a bike cycle, I tell her thank you. I even tell her I love her.

But I never ride the bike thinking the gift is all I need, riding it is separate than the gift and parents intent.

Gift, intent, and using the gift are all acts of love. Through that as that, and from that, a Christian does deeds for god.

It's an act Of salvation not a requirement to obtain it.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Thank you.

Edit. That is what I've been trying to tell you the whole time: Deeds are gratitude.

My only point was not to separate deeds from salvation; they are one.

It's an act Of salvation not a requirement to obtain it.

Agree with this caveat--if deeds are salvation, almost everything every born again knows about the Bible is wrong. Literally hundreds if not thousands of passages in both testaments shows salvation is by faith, aka trust, not deeds, ever.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Agree with this caveat--if deeds are salvation, almost everything every born again knows about the Bible is wrong. Literally hundreds if not thousands of passages in both testaments shows salvation is by faith, aka trust, not deeds, ever.

This is the package of salvation

Its faith

proverbs 3:5-6
palms 9:10
mark 11:20
mark 10:15

Its an act

John 3:18
james 2:17

Mathew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

1. Born again (confirming your faith in god)
2. Saying act of confirmation (lord. lord....by mouth)
3. Obedience (worship; devotion; act of gratitude)

I can do scripture for these but my point is salvation is a pack

1. faith
2. confirmation
3. deed

Since the bible works as a unit, you can find isolated verses on faith-only and then you see verses like without faith deeds mean nothing. The bible ideally should complement each other not contradict as per christian view

You cant be saved if you dont have faith in god

You cant be saved if you dont trust in god by saying you want to follow him

You cant be saved yet not obey him by service

Salvation is devotion, act, and faith

That is what faith means. Its an act of trust; obedience; and conviction

Salvation by faith is with deeds from, in, and, and of god.

not

replacement for salvation but part of it.​

deeds are from, in, and with god

they are not isolated or from man

Palms: 4-5

4Blessed is the one You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts! We are filled with the goodness of Your house, the holiness of Your temple. 5With awesome deeds of righteousness You answer us, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas. 6You formed the mountains by Your power, having girded Yourself with might.…

Its correlated

When we are united to Christ by faith alone, God counts Christ’s perfect deeds as ours. He is our righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30). Thus, in a real sense, we have performed perfectly in Christ the good deeds required of us (Matthew 5:48; James 2:10). Christ’s deeds are counted as ours. On this basis, God may be trusted, from the point of faith forward, as 100% for us.

Three Ways Our Deeds Relate to Our Salvation

 

[Unveiled Artist]

god/righteous deed/faith: salvation

man/non righteous deed/mistrust: man

It is context

If you look at it literally, the bible contradicts itself. If you look at it in context and as a unit, it does not.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is the package of salvation

Its faith

proverbs 3:5-6
palms 9:10
mark 11:20
mark 10:15

Its an act

John 3:18
james 2:17

Mathew 5:16
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

1. Born again (confirming your faith in god)
2. Saying act of confirmation (lord. lord....by mouth)
3. Obedience (worship; devotion; act of gratitude)

I can do scripture for these but my point is salvation is a pack

1. faith
2. confirmation
3. deed

Since the bible works as a unit, you can find isolated verses on faith-only and then you see verses like without faith deeds mean nothing. The bible ideally should complement each other not contradict as per christian view

You cant be saved if you dont have faith in god

You cant be saved if you dont trust in god by saying you want to follow him

You cant be saved yet not obey him by service

Salvation is devotion, act, and faith

That is what faith means. Its an act of trust; obedience; and conviction

Salvation by faith is with deeds from, in, and, and of god.

not

replacement for salvation but part of it.​

deeds are from, in, and with god

they are not isolated or from man

Palms: 4-5

4Blessed is the one You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts! We are filled with the goodness of Your house, the holiness of Your temple. 5With awesome deeds of righteousness You answer us, O God of our salvation, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas. 6You formed the mountains by Your power, having girded Yourself with might.…

Its correlated

When we are united to Christ by faith alone, God counts Christ’s perfect deeds as ours. He is our righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30). Thus, in a real sense, we have performed perfectly in Christ the good deeds required of us (Matthew 5:48; James 2:10). Christ’s deeds are counted as ours. On this basis, God may be trusted, from the point of faith forward, as 100% for us.

Three Ways Our Deeds Relate to Our Salvation

Let's try this a different way? If the Bible is a unit:

Does it contain any other units? If an entire chapter or an entire book says, "salvation is a gift, not including deeds in it, around it, or causing it," is that a "unit"?

Does one have to read and understand the entire Bible to have the unit right?

How come I've read the entire Bible over a dozen times, in different versions, and never got the same doctrine as you have--that what I do saves me, not what Jesus Christ did on the Cross?

 

[Muffled]

RF is real-time 2018. In the text (religious, history, etc) are based on past events and what people could have said in the past but we cant speak with them because they are deceased.

I can ask you questions and you reply regardless the medium; we can chose the medium in which we speak and we can speak in person.

With books, if I wrote the same conversation and you read it thousands of years later, unless you know me personally (not spiritually, but know me) then the information can only be "believed by faith" that what you read is what I actually said.

Thats the difference. The former is external confirmation of facts. The latter all internal confirmation of facts believed by faith.

I believe the Bible is my book and you can ask me anything about it.

 

[Muffled]

hate to be a spoil sport......but....

has anyone considered?......God may have spoke to Hitler

I believe I haven't but would it have done any good?

 

[Muffled]

I think people do not understand religious mythologies correctly nowadays. With the amazing success of science over the last two centuries and the rise of materailism/realism as being the only valid belief system people no longer understand religious mythologies the way they were written and meant to be understood.

Characters and Gods in religious mythologies are kind of like psychological archetypes. Before science most people had strong beliefs in animism. If you take Jesus, God, or Satan for example, people were thought to be "channeling" these spirits by their actions.

Or the Greek pantheon can be understood completely differently if you do not think of the gods as "out there". But as psychological forces coming from within. Or as psychological forces of a collective mind based in culture of a group of people.

It's not so much that gods interaction is like how we experience talking with each other. It's more like being in tune with a particular way of being symbolized by the God's personality.

If you are interested in archetypes here's a really good book with one particular mapping. There are lots of mappings of different archetypes:

https://www.amazon.com/King-Warrior-Magician-Lover-Rediscovering/dp/0062506064

Another great insight into how religious mythologies work is the Power of Myth interviews of Joseph Campbell. This 30 second video answers ALL your questions in your OP:

Here's a cool video on the hero's adventure:

I believe myth is fun but the Bible isn't myth but is the word of God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm. I live around a lot of protestant and Catholic christians in my appt complex home (people with disabilities), owned by the church, local christians, Christian state in an ideal Christian country. I have yet to meet any Christian like yourself who does not see deeds important as their salvation. The issue is the language. When they understand it in their language for some reason they don't see the cross relationship other denominations have with theirs. As if they are in their own little island.

We have weekly Bible study classes, Weekly sermons, mass, we used to have mass upstairs but the priest switched churches.

This is both protestant and Catholic.

Does one have to read and understand the entire Bible to have the unit right?

The way you converse it's as if we must know the Bible in order to be saved by faith.

Confirmation (lord lord), deed (I will follow), faith (because I trust you) is salvation.

Evangelist and JW think we need to study the Bible to understand. Liturgical churches view faith by what they do. So the relationship is with Christ not the Bible.

Aka. no you don't. But Evangelist and JW seem to think otherwise.

How come I've read the entire Bible over a dozen times, in different versions, and never got the same doctrine as you have--that what I do saves me, not what Jesus Christ did on the Cross?

Because the Bible doesn't save, your faith and devotion to Christ does. You (all) ate idolizing the Bible as Christ. That's dangerous because ones the Bible isn't in English, two, it's written by jesus apostles, three we can't confirm it, for there are countless interpretation, and give even more translations, and no Christian agrees with each other's view.

But you guys think you right.

But you Must read my quotes and verses. I never said jesus didsnt die on the cross for you. I said the cross is deed (what jesus did in his life), his faith in his father, and his confirmation of his devotion (physically dying ln the cross).

I don't know the logistics behind a man who loved over two thousand years ago can save you, but I do know in that salvation people obey, confirm, repent, and have faith daily. It's all one.

Unit means all verses work together in context.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Short cut now Im at a desktop

As a unit means the verses arent isolated. They work together.

So "by faith alone" is not isolated from "faith without works is dead". If they do, they contradict each other.

Does it contain any other units? If an entire chapter or an entire book says, "salvation is a gift, not including deeds in it, around it, or causing it," is that a "unit"?

Its a unit. A package.

But you must read the verses I post so you can go forward with questions related to those verses. Im not copy and pasting just because.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.​

1 Corinthians 10:31
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Palsm 65:5
You answer us with awesome and righteous deeds, God our Savior, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas,​

Think about the context: ​

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.​

If deeds were not deed in salvation, there would be no need to judge you by your deeds.

The bible is contextual​

Does one have to read and understand the entire Bible to have the unit right?

No. One needs faith, deeds, conviction. Only evangelicals and JW I know of who require biblical reading to know christ. Everyone else has a relationship with christ not the bible.

How come I've read the entire Bible over a dozen times, in different versions, and never got the same doctrine as you have--that what I do saves me, not what Jesus Christ did on the Cross?

Because you already have it in your head how you want to read the bible (confirmation bias). Its not objective. Ive read the bible twice and, like other sacred text, it is contextual.

I love reading all kinds of books. I read the suttas (Buddhist scriptures) all the time when I can. I know about my faith based on what I read. I know my faith spiritually by how I practice.

Same with any other religious practice. All followers focused on deeds in relation to the beliefs. Its always been intertwined. Romans. Jews. Greeks. Africans. and so forth understand deeds and faith. I just think its in part an evangelist/protestant thing. Even Episcopalian, Lutheran, UU protestants understand deeds in relation to faith and, thus, in the first two salvation.

Also,

What jesus did on the cross, that gift, manifests itself through faith and action. He doesnt just hand you a gift on a silver platter. Within that gift is a salvational action

NOT a requirement
Not forced
Not obligation

It is something you want to do because christ died for you.

I always thought it common sense, actually. Religion has always been a deed/belief thing regardless of what people call it.

A small percentage take out the deeds (laziness?) and just keep the belief; sounds new age.

 

[Thief]

I believe I haven't but would it have done any good?

well.....God spoke to Moses.....and shortly after....
3000 people died by his command

and if the prophecy about the Carpenter should unfold as believed.....
many more will die
(something about blood flowing to the reins of the horses)

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hmm. I live around a lot of protestant and Catholic christians in my appt complex home (people with disabilities), owned by the church, local christians, Christian state in an ideal Christian country. I have yet to meet any Christian like yourself who does not see deeds important as their salvation. The issue is the language. When they understand it in their language for some reason they don't see the cross relationship other denominations have with theirs. As if they are in their own little island.

We have weekly Bible study classes, Weekly sermons, mass, we used to have mass upstairs but the priest switched churches.

This is both protestant and Catholic.



The way you converse it's as if we must know the Bible in order to be saved by faith.

Confirmation (lord lord), deed (I will follow), faith (because I trust you) is salvation.

Evangelist and JW think we need to study the Bible to understand. Liturgical churches view faith by what they do. So the relationship is with Christ not the Bible.

Aka. no you don't. But Evangelist and JW seem to think otherwise.



Because the Bible doesn't save, your faith and devotion to Christ does. You (all) ate idolizing the Bible as Christ. That's dangerous because ones the Bible isn't in English, two, it's written by jesus apostles, three we can't confirm it, for there are countless interpretation, and give even more translations, and no Christian agrees with each other's view.

But you guys think you right.

But you Must read my quotes and verses. I never said jesus didsnt die on the cross for you. I said the cross is deed (what jesus did in his life), his faith in his father, and his confirmation of his devotion (physically dying ln the cross).

I don't know the logistics behind a man who loved over two thousand years ago can save you, but I do know in that salvation people obey, confirm, repent, and have faith daily. It's all one.

Unit means all verses work together in context.

God recognizes the deeds of both believers and unbelievers, regarding judgment, in this world and the next. However, God does not extend salvation to unbelievers. I think deeds are vital, but the Bible not once or twice, but hundreds of times, they are not a part of salvation.

My relationship is with Jesus, but anytime I want to make sure I'm hearing from Him, I check what I think I heard from Him or another person against the Bible. God took a lot of time, effort and care to inspire the Bible. It's like you're saying I can be a great physicist without reading any physicist textbook--or as important, I should kind of read it to get the general idea without trying to follow any specifics.

The logistics behind an ancient death saving modern people is that Jesus was God and took the full force of the Father's wrath against sin on the Cross. He may not have prayed "Take this cup away" because He was afraid of crucifixion and torture, but because He had to BECOME SIN for us as the Bible says. The Holy Son of God became paedophilia for paedophiles. He became sin to make us perfect, not better.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Short cut now Im at a desktop

As a unit means the verses arent isolated. They work together.

So "by faith alone" is not isolated from "faith without works is dead". If they do, they contradict each other.



Its a unit. A package.

But you must read the verses I post so you can go forward with questions related to those verses. Im not copy and pasting just because.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.​

1 Corinthians 10:31
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Palsm 65:5
You answer us with awesome and righteous deeds, God our Savior, the hope of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest seas,​

Think about the context: ​

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.​

If deeds were not deed in salvation, there would be no need to judge you by your deeds.

The bible is contextual​

No. One needs faith, deeds, conviction. Only evangelicals and JW I know of who require biblical reading to know christ. Everyone else has a relationship with christ not the bible.



Because you already have it in your head how you want to read the bible (confirmation bias). Its not objective. Ive read the bible twice and, like other sacred text, it is contextual.

I love reading all kinds of books. I read the suttas (Buddhist scriptures) all the time when I can. I know about my faith based on what I read. I know my faith spiritually by how I practice.

Same with any other religious practice. All followers focused on deeds in relation to the beliefs. Its always been intertwined. Romans. Jews. Greeks. Africans. and so forth understand deeds and faith. I just think its in part an evangelist/protestant thing. Even Episcopalian, Lutheran, UU protestants understand deeds in relation to faith and, thus, in the first two salvation.

Also,

What jesus did on the cross, that gift, manifests itself through faith and action. He doesnt just hand you a gift on a silver platter. Within that gift is a salvational action

NOT a requirement
Not forced
Not obligation

It is something you want to do because christ died for you.

I always thought it common sense, actually. Religion has always been a deed/belief thing regardless of what people call it.

A small percentage take out the deeds (laziness?) and just keep the belief; sounds new age.

*I agree religion has always been a deed/belief thing, but Jesus brings us something different than what came before.

*I agree that doctrine shouldn't build on isolated verses, and that parts should work together.

*I agree that I have a saving relationship with Christ, not a book.

*I agree that all proper interpretation is in context.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of deeds and judgment with believers. Believers will be judged for rewards, the more deeds they do as beloved volunteers, the more they suffer for Christ, the more rewards.

I don't have a confirmation bias regarding the New Testament. As a Jew, I wanted to disbelieve Jesus--and knew I would lose many friends and family if I trusted Jesus for salvation. I savor now every word of God in both testaments.

You wrote:

"What jesus did on the cross, that gift, manifests itself through faith and action. He doesnt just hand you a gift on a silver platter. Within that gift is a salvational action"

Actually, the bible says the opposite, so this is not a philosophical matter:

Eph 2: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

The gift on the silver platter has to do with Christ did, for the sake of paying God's justice, for the sake of God's love. Yes, a murderer or drug dealer can hit by a car, see the error of their ways, trust Jesus, drop dead and go to Heaven. Yes. ZERO deeds.

Romans 4 says ZERO deeds are needed to be saved. ZERO. I worry for you because as I understand the Bible, IMHO, you may not be saved. I'm just not sure. I'm being honest with you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

*I agree religion has always been a deed/belief thing, but Jesus brings us something different than what came before.

*I agree that doctrine shouldn't build on isolated verses, and that parts should work together.

*I agree that I have a saving relationship with Christ, not a book.

*I agree that all proper interpretation is in context.

I think you misunderstand the purposes of deeds and judgment with believers. Believers will be judged for rewards, the more deeds they do as beloved volunteers, the more they suffer for Christ, the more rewards.

I don't have a confirmation bias regarding the New Testament. As a Jew, I wanted to disbelieve Jesus--and knew I would lose many friends and family if I trusted Jesus for salvation. I savor now every word of God in both testaments.

You wrote:

"What jesus did on the cross, that gift, manifests itself through faith and action. He doesnt just hand you a gift on a silver platter. Within that gift is a salvational action"

Actually, the bible says the opposite, so this is not a philosophical matter:

Eph 2: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

The gift on the silver platter has to do with Christ did, for the sake of paying God's justice, for the sake of God's love. Yes, a murderer or drug dealer can hit by a car, see the error of their ways, trust Jesus, drop dead and go to Heaven. Yes. ZERO deeds.

Romans 4 says ZERO deeds are needed to be saved. ZERO. I worry for you because as I understand the Bible, IMHO, you may not be saved. I'm just not sure. I'm being honest with you.

Real quick. Confirmed bias just means you confirm your statements and beliefs within sources that agree with your beliefs.

So, for example, if you did not have bias and had a question you can find answers (let's say right ones) from the Quran, Scientology journals, studies of psychology and religion, and Hindu culture.

But your source of reference goes back to what confirms your faith; the resources above don't and are contrary to it.

So your opinions are biased by the resources you use to confirm it.

Another bias is using the Bible to prove itself true. An unbias book is objective with many citations confirming or supporting a said statement. The Bible does not do that.

I don't care for bias when it harms people and belittles other people. It everyone has bias in one way or another. Your bias is making you subjective to a faith that you present as facts in an objective manner. Life doesn't work that way.

Some bias benefits others do not. But a lot of Us are ignorant to how our beliefs affect people. Abrahamics have been guilty of this for thousands of years.

It's not negative but you do have confirmed bias. It does shade hearing And seeing the truth (what's fact) in those who disagree with you and your belief. Comfort zone.

I'm out the house I'll get back but it's not just you. All 99.9 percent of christians I talk to have it. Something about religion makes you bias but talk about, say cars, you are all ears.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

God recognizes the deeds of both believers and unbelievers, regarding judgment, in this world and the next. However, God does not extend salvation to unbelievers. I think de

Just those who also do deeds for god do not seperate what they of or him with what he did for them. They act in a relationship; its not onesided salvation.

The logistics behind an ancient death saving modern people is that Jesus was God and took the full force of the Father's wrath against sin on the Cross.

I know about it. Its the same as knowing what a language says through translation but not getting it since I am not a native speaker nor of the culture to which that language originated and spoken.

I will never understand how someone over two thousand years ago save soemone today. I know what it says in the bible. I understand like I understand basic math. That doesnt mean the logistics of a man alreayd dead saving the living anymore than wondering how a chemist make a variable into a number with only one number to solve the equation (say X plus 2 equals Y). Dont ask.

Its a foregone conclusion