God: Trinity or Unity?

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

For starters, we basically cannot accurately describe spiritual reality with words.
We can only create more accurate or less accurate descriptions, but never fully correspond to reality.
Spiritual reality can be comprehended (cognized) only in practice.

The Trinity as different faces of God is not very accurate.
More precisely, it is one God in different places.

Further discussion usually comes down to a debate about terms ...

You say we cannot describe spiritual reality with words. Who made that an axiom? I suppose you are wanting to say that the words of the Bible are not valid or credible to describe God.

And, yet here you are using words to describe God, and considering definitions of terms.

My views, as I said earlier, come only from the Bible. And isn't that where the Trinity doctrine came from?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[r2d2009]

You say we cannot describe spiritual reality with words. Who made that an axiom? I suppose you are wanting to say that the words of the Bible are not valid or credible to describe God.

The Bible is all right.
But each person understands it in his own way.
Even in the same words to different people, God will reveal the truth of different depths.
Therefore, words are only a reflection of reality.
In addition, the Bible has many allegories that people understand too bluntly.

And, yet here you are using words to describe God, and considering definitions of terms.

Yes, this is inevitable, but there are other ways of transmitting information without words.
Such information may be called silent knowledge, and its transmission - initiation.
For example, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a dedication to how to feel the Holy Spirit.

My views, as I said earlier, come only from the Bible. And isn't that where the Trinity doctrine came from?

I consider various sources of information, including apocrypha, texts of different religions, modern revelations.
Mention of the Trinity with various descriptions can be found not only in the Bible.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The Bible is all right.
But each person understands it in his own way.
Even in the same words to different people, God will reveal the truth of different depths.
Therefore, words are only a reflection of reality.
In addition, the Bible has many allegories that people understand too bluntly.



Yes, this is inevitable, but there are other ways of transmitting information without words.
Such information may be called silent knowledge, and its transmission - initiation.
For example, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a dedication to how to feel the Holy Spirit.



I consider various sources of information, including apocrypha, texts of different religions, modern revelations.
Mention of the Trinity with various descriptions can be found not only in the Bible.

But the Bible is still words by which, I believe, we understand spiritual things.

Yes, there is the ministry of the Holy Spirit also into the life and knowledge and experience of the believer.

Though I do not consider the Apocrypha inspired and part of the Bible, others do.

But, the 'doctrine' of the Trinity does originate with the Bible. One God...Three Persons...One essence.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[r2d2009]

But the Bible is still words by which, I believe, we understand spiritual things.

Yes, there is the ministry of the Holy Spirit also into the life and knowledge and experience of the believer.

Though I do not consider the Apocrypha inspired and part of the Bible, others do.

To be more objective, we must consider many sources.

But, the 'doctrine' of the Trinity does originate with the Bible. One God...Three Persons...One essence.

There is only some emphasis on this.

The Trinity can also be found in other religions, for example, in Hinduism, Ishvara corresponds to the Creator, Brahman to the Holy Spirit, Avatar to the Messiah.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

To be more objective, we must consider many sources.



There is only some emphasis on this.

The Trinity can also be found in other religions, for example, in Hinduism, Ishvara corresponds to the Creator, Brahman to the Holy Spirit, Avatar to the Messiah.

As a Christian I consider the only source is the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity comes from the Bible.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[r2d2009]

As a Christian I consider the only source is the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity comes from the Bible.

I simply report that in other religions there is similar information about God.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I simply report that in other religions there is similar information about God.

Well and good. But the doctrine known as the Trinity comes from the Bible.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well and good. But the doctrine known as the Trinity comes from the Bible.

Good-Ole-Rebel

It really doesn't. Trinitarian doctrine was formulated by the fourth century church. They drew from the Bible, but at best it was an interpretation of vague associations in the Christian portion. It was an interpretation that was necessary in order to allow for Jesus to be God but still prohibit polytheism. IOW, the solution to a theological problem came first, then this was searched for and "found" in the NT after conclusions had already been reached.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

It really doesn't. Trinitarian doctrine was formulated by the fourth century church. They drew from the Bible, but at best it was an interpretation of vague associations in the Christian portion. It was an interpretation that was necessary in order to allow for Jesus to be God but still prohibit polytheism. IOW, the solution to a theological problem came first, then this was searched for and "found" in the NT after conclusions had already been reached.

Yes, they drew from the Bible. But the Bible at that time consisted of both Old and New Testaments. It didn't result from any need to 'make' Jesus God. It resulted from the Scriptures showing that Jesus is God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, they drew from the Bible. But the Bible at that time consisted of both Old and New Testaments. It didn't result from any need to 'make' Jesus God. It resulted from the Scriptures showing that Jesus is God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

It is not clear in the NT that Jesus is God. After all, the Christian heretic groups used the NT also to show that Jesus was less than God.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

It is not clear in the NT that Jesus is God. After all, the Christian heretic groups used the NT also to show that Jesus was less than God.

(Acts 20:28)

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[IndigoChild5559]

(Acts 20:28)

Good-Ole-Rebel

What does Acts 20:28 have to do with the Trinity?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

What does Acts 20:28 have to do with the Trinity?

Go back and read post #(51). Both your comment and mine.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Squeaky]

I firmly believe He's a Unity

TRINITY EVIDENCE FALSE
Everything that the trinitarians claims makes Jesus God is misunderstood by them. Trinitarians have tried to form a belief on circumstantial verses, not factual verses. And they base their belief on principles that are not even in the Word of God. A Believer bases all their beliefs on what is written, not on what is not written.

Matt 20:22-23
22 But Jesus answered and said, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able."
23 So He said to them, "You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father."

Matt 23:23-24
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

Gal 1:6-8
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
(NKJ)


Circumstantial Verses
Circumstantial verses are verses that can be used either way. As in this one,(My Lord and my God) The word and can be used to separate Lord and God, it can also be used to bring them together as one. Now as John was addressing Jesus at this point John knew and believed that God was also in Jesus. So in his attempt to address them both he was addressing "My Lord Jesus Christ, and also my God the Father that dwells in You.

John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
(NKJ)
Factual Verses
In the factual verses, they can only be taken one way, with no variations. So the carnal mind has to pervert the factual verses in order to believe the circumstantial verses. The factual verses explain the circumstantial verses. As in this one, "One God the Father". The Father is the one God. But if you read one you see there is also one Lord Jesus Christ, which explains why John said it the way he did.

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)


THE DIVINITY(DEITY) OF CHRIST
We can have the same divine nature that Jesus had. God working through us.

Acts 17:29-30
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

ONLY GOD CAN BE WORSHIPPED (WE CAN AND WILL BE WORSHIPPED)
Rev 3:9
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

THREE IN ONE GOD, ONE GOD IN THREE
Everything that separates trinitarians from Christians comes from out side of the scriptures. Trintiy, deity, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

The apostles even said. Yet for us there is one God the Father.
Christians believe there is one God the Father.
Trinitarians always start with questions, this is how they deceive.
2 Tim 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
(NKJ)
THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

 

[Squeaky]

THE I AM DELUSION
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.

 

[Squeaky]

Only People Who Worship In The Flesh Believe Jesus Is God
On Ro 9
Paul is talking about having great sorrow and grief over those who worship in the flesh.According to the flesh he could even wish he were cut off from Christ. Because those who worship in the flesh believe that Christ came and that Christ is the eternally blessed God.But as Paul says they are not all Israel who are from Israel nor are they children of Abraham seed. Those who worship in the flesh and believe this are not children of God.
Rom 9:1-8
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Luke 16:15
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

I Jn 4:14-15
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.
15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
(NKJ)



xxx The only trinity in the Word of God is the dragon, devil,satan.

Rev 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(NKJ)


>>>
Because the Holy Spirit only quotes verses, He will never be able to teach the trinity doctrine.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)

xxxThe devil is a deity. This is the definition of the devil and satan in strongs dictionary.

4567 Satanas (sat-an-as');

of Aramaic origin corresponding to 4566 (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. the devil:

KJV-- Satan.

1140 daimonion (dahee-mon'-ee-on);

neuter of a derivative of 1142; a daemonic being; by extension a deity:

KJV-- devil, god.

xxx The only three in one trinity in the bible is the dragon, devil, satan.

2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
(NKJ)

II Th 2:4
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
(NKJ)

Rev 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
(NKJ)

 

[Soapy]

Rather than being 3 persons in 1 (God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit as defined at Nicea), only God the Father is God. Jesus is a human the the holy spirit is simply referring to the Father.

• ‘Only the Father is God’
  
• ‘Jesus is man (sinless man: holy and dutiful to turn Father’
• Holy Spirit is ‘spirit of the Father’: ‘Truth, power, and authority’

There are not three persons...

I hear and read of God as a unity... of God is one made up of a unity of three then there is a conundrum at play.

A ‘One’ cannot be a UNITY and yet be ‘indivisible’... and yet RANKED order!

A Contradiction...

Clearly, Jesus, the Son, is LESS THAN the Father... a division right there!!

Trinity failed!!

Clearly, the Holy Spirit is an AGENCY of the Father:

• The Father SENDS HIS spirit (which is a Holy) as a GIFT to the Apostles
• He sends IT via Jesus Christ
• Jesus SENDS IT ON TO the Apostles in given time (‘Wait in Jerusalem until I send you the PROMISED GIFT from the Father’)
• The Holy Spirit is [somehow] LESS THEN JESUS...
  • ‘IT will TAKE OF WHAT IS MINE and give it to you (apostles)’

Howbeit that the Holy Spirit is dispatched by the Father... yet is supposed to be ALMIGHTY GOD himself???

Can Almighty God be SENT!!?

The Holy SPIRIT is ‘poured out’ onto Jesus as an ANOINTMENT...

This is how Jesus became ‘CHRIST’... ‘Christ’ means ‘ANOINTED ONE’...

Added to that, an anointing is a:

• ‘Setting aside for kingship’
• ‘Setting aside for [high] Priesthood’

Do we not see Jesus being anointed for:

1. Kingship over Creation - and
   
2. High Priesthood to God

Before his anointment, before his setting aside... what was Jesus?

Was he ‘Son of God’.., what does ‘Son of God’ mean?

You are TOLD by trinitarian churches and doctrines (ideologies), that it means Jesus was birthed by God... but NOT BIRTHED by God.., in fact, he was never birthed...

I ask you if you see farcicality at work right there!!

Which it is?

The answer is ‘NONE OF THE ABOVE’!!

‘Son’ means:

• ‘He who does the works of the Father’

This is a spiritual definition. It is not a fleshly description. The scriptures is a SPIRITUAL RENDITION.

Man PROCREATES from himself... this a FLESH SON... We are in the hope that our FLESH SON.., ‘Does the works of the Flesh father’

A ‘Son of man’ does the works of his flesh Father.

Have you yourself not heard the phrase:

• ‘You are NOT MY SON’

spoken to a child who so vehemently refuses the commands of his father... and have you not heard:

• ‘You are a SON TO ME’

spoken of a child who is NOT flesh from flesh? That child is NOT that fathers procreation BUT he so eagerly and dutifully does the works of the adult that that adult ‘ADOPTS’ him spiritually AS [IF] HIS OWN SON:

• ‘This day I have become to you, A Father... and You have become to me, A SON’

Where have you read these words?
Whom are they referring to?
What is the meaning of the statement?

Philemon 1... a runaway slave, Onesimus, is ADOPTED by apostle Paul as a SON, a spiritual Son... it is not his procreated child! Why? Because Onesimus fully, dutifully, and completely, carried out the works Paul assigned time him...

Why is this documented in scriptures... it’s not simply a nice story!!! Edification and instructions on interpretation and verification of scriptures regarding ‘True Sonship’... True Sonship is not of the flesh but of the spirit. The intent of mind!

Holy Angels are ‘[Heavenly Spirit] Sons of the God Most High’... they perfectly carry out the commands and assignments Almighty God sets for them...

Wrongful belief assigns Jesus as a SPIRIT PROCREATION from God...

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

Spirit (and God is Spirit) DOES NOT PROCREATE!!

So, how was Jesus ‘born’?

Adam... what does Luke 3:38 tell you about the first man?

It tells you that Adam was ‘SON OF GOD’.
What is the definition given above about the title, ‘Son’. Do you see it?

Adam, was born... holy and sinless... he perfectly carried out the commands of God... up until he sinned.

After he sinned, He LOST his perfect sonship... in fact, worse, because the sin was so great - God was so grieved by the sin he almost destroyed the works of his own hands!!

But God relented and prophesied that he would send ANOTHER (there’s more but I can’t write it all!) and that this ‘LAST ADAM’ (another in the same manner as the FIRST ADAM) would be from the ‘Seed of a WOMAN’... do you see any significance of this statement?

Before God created a SECOND/LAST ADAM, he sought to see if any of the SEED OF MAN could be found to DIE for the sin of the first Adam... none was found (David came closest!!).

Time past... God finally gave up and SENT THE SECOND ADAM via the SEED OF MARY (a woman)... why?

Sin, spiritually, is in the seed of man, the Sperm, it is what GIVES LIFE (Father) to the egg. It is the spirit that enlivens the seed of the woman, the egg! This is truth, it is medical reality (the enlivening!).

To produce a second Adam, the SPERM of man cannot be used to impregnate the seed of the woman... (too technical?).

How was Adam ENLIVENED? The LIFELESS (inert) BODY of Adam had

• the BREATH of life breathed into him ... and the man became a living Soul...

Adam’s body was NOT LIVING until the Spirit ENLIVENED IT.

Mary’s seed, expelled on a monthly basis, inert, lifeless, was ENLIVENED when the Holy Spirit OVERSHADOWED Mary...

• And thus, ‘the Child to be born to you shall be called “Holy, Son of the God Most High”’

So, Adam, was ‘Son of God’, and Jesus is ‘Son of God’...

• ‘For the first sins, and another is brought up to replace him’
• Cain.., Seth
• Ishmael... Isaac
• Esau... Jacob
• Eliab.., Joseph
• Reuben.., David
• Amnon... Solomon

 

[Soapy]

There is only one creator God, It is possible that there are other Gods
Jesus is the son of God and The holy spirit emanates from God and is indivisible from God.
I do not find it necessary to believe that God and Jesus are the same individual or that Jesus Acts other than with the authority of God. Jesus acknowledged God to be his superior. so there is some distinction between them.
I do not need to understand that distinction.

To All....

“There is only one creator God”... yes, in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism... ONE GOD, and Father, who is creator, life Giver, Almighty.

‘Father’, means exactly so:

• ‘He that brings into being’
• ‘He that gives life’
• ‘He that is Head’

But be careful not to forget that ‘God’, and ‘Father’, are TITLES.... it’s not “A Person”....

There ARE ‘other Gods’... (careful... need definition of ‘God’)

“God”, pertains to one who is in:

• Highest Mightiness
• Complete Rulership (rule maker / keeper / Judge)
• Full Greatness
• Ultimate Authority

‘He who is our creator is....’ (select all of the above)... ‘our God’: Context... ‘Spirit’

This thus does not exclude that in there are not ‘other’ Gods in ‘other’ context. Indeed:

• A Judge is GOD in his courtroom
• A Chess Grandmaster is GOD of his game
• A Father is GOD in his household
• A Principal is God in his School
• (Select your own example)

Philistines, Egyptians, Hindus, all pagans, ... believed in GODS, spirit gods and stone gods... but ‘Gods’ nonetheless... it is THEIR BELIEF... our Belief is OUR belief... other beliefs cannot be denied because of our own... Even some MEN, humans, and Angels, in our scriptures, ‘Satan’ even, carry the title, ‘Gods... in context! (Always reference BY CONTEXT!):

• Yhwh God called MIGHTY MEN who heeded his word, ‘Gods’
• Moses was called ‘God’
• Satan was called ‘God’
• MONEY is called ‘God’

Our Almighty God (NAME given as ‘YHWH’) said of himself (gender neutral ‘him’!!):

• ‘I am GOD of All whom are called Gods’

Even our almighty YHWH GOD did not deny there are ‘others’ whom are called ‘God’s...!!

Why do we struggle to understand this concept and by context?

The reason is that there are dark forces at work undermining the senses of weak minds- yeah, even those of STRONG minds, brought low!!

We have lost the understanding of our own words and destroy ourselves (spiritually) by wrongful ideals.

(Do English speaking people not understand their own language and language structure: linguistics!!! .... arrgghhh... exasperation Reigns!!)

A title can belong to ANYONE who qualifies for the definition of that title.

”Almighty God” is a definition of a ‘God’ that is expressing one that is greater - Is ALL GREATER (yeah, made that up for effect!) - than ALL OTHERS IN ALL CONTEXTS... This title and definition is what we give to our DEITY...
And ‘Deity’, a title specific to ‘One who is [to be] worshipped’

‘Son’, everyone STOP !!! What is a ‘SON’?
Why are you thinking ONLY of a PROCREATED offspring...

A Son, is (context: Spiritual):

• “He who does the works of the Father”

A ‘spiritual Son’ is not explicitly an offspring (a PROCREATION)... A SPIRIT does not PROCREATE. A spirit CREATES...

God, our God, YHWH, CREATED all things.. he is FATHER to all (remind yourself of definition).

He gave humans and animals, plants, fish, all sentient being, the ability to PROCREATE (produce flesh from flesh offspring). But SPIRIT, no!!!! Angels are created Spirits of sentient nature... but they CANNOT REPRODUCE...

So, a Son... Scriptures says:

• “All who follow the Spirit [of the Father] ARE SONS [of the Father]”

What do you understand from this?

That, to YHWH God, if we do his works then we are HIS SONS (context: Spirit Sons). Though we are FLESH, we can be Spirit Sons... which is what Jesus Christ is... hence he calls himself both:

• ‘[Spiritual Son of God’, and...
• ‘[Flesh] Son of Man’

When you try to ask Trinitarians how they explain Jesus Christ being ‘Son of God’, they have NO ANSWER except for rhetoric...!! Their explanations are so vague and hairyfairy that you end up more confused than when you began... trinity explains that it is because of YOUR INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND NONSENSE!!! Clever - yes, deceitfullness is often disguised as CLEVERNESS!!

 

[Soapy]

There is only one creator God, It is possible that there are other Gods
Jesus is the son of God and The holy spirit emanates from God and is indivisible from God.
I do not find it necessary to believe that God and Jesus are the same individual or that Jesus Acts other than with the authority of God. Jesus acknowledged God to be his superior. so there is some distinction between them.
I do not need to understand that distinction.

Ha! You are too modest... you just expressed the distinction and your expression is true.

Brilliant summary.

 

[Soapy]

What??

The dictionary says unity to be united or Joined as one. To what things are joined to make god one?

Trinity just says three things make god one.

Duality two things make god into one.

God is one unit.

Why do you feel god cannot be trinity?

Is there a way to know the nature of god? (You personally)

The doctrine of the trinity claims that there are THREE PARTS who are together ONE PART .. therein LIES the whole contradiction!

If the trinity God is a single unit then there can be no separation in God. But yet trinity states that there is... in fact these three are not even ‘the same’ because according to the latest trinity diatribe, they are RANKED!!!!

How can there be a RANK ORDER among ABSOLUTE EQUALS? Yet, nowhere in scriptures is there ever any kind of ABSOLUTE EQUALITY among the ‘three’...

Doesn't scriptures say, ‘You cannot have [THREE] masters’?

And, YHWH GOD never ever said he was ‘One God’. He said he was the ‘ONLY [true] GOD’.