God vs. Satan

[edwinic]

They are not same. They never have been the same.

Isaiah (14:12) Lucifer, son of the morning
This is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer. Although most Christians consider Lucifer to be Satan (the devil), there is little biblical justification for doing so. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar?) and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star. The only other person that is referred to in that way is Jesus (Rev.22:16). Does this mean that Lucifer is Jesus?

from Skeptic Annotated Bible

 

[savagewind]

Isaiah (14:12) Lucifer, son of the morning
This is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer. Although most Christians consider Lucifer to be Satan (the devil), there is little biblical justification for doing so. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar?) and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star. The only other person that is referred to in that way is Jesus (Rev.22:16). Does this mean that Lucifer is Jesus?

from Skeptic Annotated Bible

Please look around you! Light means right. Stubborn rightness leads to WAR because two or more things that differ cannot both be right and eventually they will clash. The rising son is in reality God's son but where is he? Satan is the reason Jesus isn't obvious.

In a room with two or more lights on where does each end it's illumination and the other begin?

 

[Altfish]

If you do a body count from the Bible

God has killed something like 2,500,000 people
Satan about 10, and those were on the instruction of God

One wonders if good and evil have become transposed

 

[savagewind]

One wonders if good and evil have become transposed

I am sure it has.

 

[edwinic]

If you do a body count from the Bible

God has killed something like 2,500,000 people

If you can substatiate that, then that God probably killed more than Stalin-Mao-Hitler-Polpot combined.

 

[Tarheeler]

How come every time someone has the ability to do something either extremely cool, very good, or strange it's because of Satan? What makes it so amazing things done by people aren't the choice of God?

Interesting, but where does that leave those of us who don't subscribe to the whole "the ultimately powerful Creator of all locked in an eternal battle with an egotistical creation for control of humanity" idea?

 

[Altfish]

If you can substatiate that, then that God probably killed more than Stalin-Mao-Hitler-Polpot combined.

Here is a list of the deaths that god caused in the bible...

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? Complete list and estimated total (Including Apocryphal killings)

 

[edwinic]

Here is a list of the deaths that god caused in the bible...

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? Complete list and estimated total (Including Apocryphal killings)

Thanks!

 

[rusra02]

How come every time someone has the ability to do something either extremely cool, very good, or strange it's because of Satan? What makes it so amazing things done by people aren't the choice of God?

For example?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

For example?

• Niccolò Paganini, Italian violinist, who may not have started the rumour but played along with it.
• Giuseppe Tartini, Venetian violinist and composer, who believed that his Devil's Trill Sonata was inspired by the Devil's appearance before him in a dream.
• Tommy Johnson, blues musician
• Robert Johnson, blues musician, whom legend claims to have met Satan at a crossroads and signed over his soul to play the blues and gain mastery of the guitar.
• Infernus, black metal musician; according to the Gorgoroth site, he founded the band "[a]fter making a pact with the Devil in 1992".

Deal with the Devil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also remember the outlandish powers given to demonically possessed or pacted individuals in cinema compared to the powers given to the "good guys".

 

[rusra02]

Deal with the Devil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also remember the outlandish powers given to demonically possessed or pacted individuals in cinema compared to the powers given to the "good guys".

This made me think of all the amazing things done by worshipers of Jehovah, unmatched by anything accomplished by those controlled by Satan, IMO. Just one example of hundreds: Samson's killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey.

 

[Sleeppy]

This made me think of all the amazing things done by worshipers of Jehovah, unmatched by anything accomplished by those controlled by Satan, IMO. Just one example of hundreds: Samson's killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey.

We like to exaggerate, don't we? -Especially for the wrong reasons.

The Son of Man should know himself; meekness inherits the Earth- or desolation. Is the building directly over the desolation of the Temple a symbol of meekness, or an abomination in Samson's eyes?

 

[rusra02]

We like to exaggerate, don't we? -Especially for the wrong reasons.

The Son of Man should know himself; meekness inherits the Earth- or desolation. Is the building directly over the desolation of the Temple a symbol of meekness, or an abomination in Samson's eyes?

I don't understand your comment. The account of Samson destroying a thousand Philistines is recorded in Judges 15:15. While Jehovah is the God of peace, he is not a pacifist; nor is his Son, Jesus Christ, IMO. Speaking prophetically of Jesus Christ, Psalm 110:5,6 says "Jehovah will be at your right hand; He will crush kings on the day of his anger. *He will execute judgment against the nations; He will fill the land with dead bodies. He will crush the leader of a vast land."

 

[Sleeppy]

I don't understand your comment. The account of Samson destroying a thousand Philistines is recorded in Judges 15:15. While Jehovah is the God of peace, he is not a pacifist; nor is his Son, Jesus Christ, IMO. Speaking prophetically of Jesus Christ, Psalm 110:5,6 says "Jehovah will be at your right hand; He will crush kings on the day of his anger. *He will execute judgment against the nations; He will fill the land with dead bodies. He will crush the leader of a vast land."

Did you not understand our Lord, when he instructed his fellow sons of Man, "Turn back your sword to its place; for all who did take the sword, by the sword will perish"?

This is the same Lord saying, "Do you think that I am not able now to call upon my Father, and He will place beside me more than twelve legions of messengers?" --I have no doubt the Messiah had 144,000 supporters surrounding Jerusalem, with the swords they were instructed to buy.. But, you must understand that He came to subdue sin, not murder God's creation.


Blessed are the peacemakers; these are the children of God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This made me think of all the amazing things done by worshipers of Jehovah, unmatched by anything accomplished by those controlled by Satan, IMO. Just one example of hundreds: Samson's killing a thousand Philistines with the jawbone of a donkey.

I wouldn't use a person killing a bunch of other people as an example of "great" things people have done with the help of God. Otherwise mass murderers must be highly favored by the Lord.

Why not use examples of positive things that people have been motivated to do by their faith? Like building hospitals, caring for orphans, helping the impoverished, etc. You know, the things that Christians are supposed to do.

 

[ZooGirl02]

According to my beliefs, Christianity is about paying debts. When Adam and Eve committed the Original Sin, they caused a huge debt. We all inherit Original Sin when we are conceived. Only Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary were without Original Sin in my beliefs. Also, every time someone sins, they accumulate debt. Therefore, Jesus Christ had to come and pay the price for our debt both past and future. Nevertheless, those who die in a state of mortal sin will go to Hell in my beliefs. That is because they did not accept Jesus Christ's payment of their debts. They may have accepted it once or twice but then they chose to accumulate more debt by committing mortal sins and then failed to let Jesus pay that debt off by repenting. Anyway, I may be wrong about this but this is my beliefs.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

According to my beliefs, Christianity is about paying debts.

And where does Jesus say that in the Bible? I haven't recalled any theologians, saints or popes saying any such thing, either. I thought Jesus said the first and second greatest commandments is loving God and your neighbor.

 

[ZooGirl02]

And where does Jesus say that in the Bible? I haven't recalled any theologians, saints or popes saying any such thing, either. I thought Jesus said the first and second greatest commandments is loving God and your neighbor.

Well, it doesn't really say that. But by debt, I mean that Jesus paid off the punishment for our sin. These are the closest Bible verses I can get to what I am trying to say:

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
(1 Peter 2:24 RSV-CE)

My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2 RSV-CE)