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God vs Satan

Trey of Diamonds

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Heneni said:
Satan did exactly what god created him to do....but he wanted to be more, and ended up less.
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So does Satan have free will or were his actions predefined? If his actions are predefined then how can he be responsible for what he does? If God created him to tempt Christ and humanity then isn't God repsonsible for the evil he spreads and therefore evil himself?
 
darkendless

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
inquirer_Jn1717 said:
What do you define as Evil? Dogma and suppression is a good start, but our lack of faithfulness does not make God Himself faithless.
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Oh no of course not, but promoting supression and rigid dogma does not reflect well upon this "loving God" of ours.
Theres also this whole praying on our knees thing, what kind of twisted being would want that?
God does not need faith, he gets all he needs from his mindless sheep, thats assuming there is an almighty God watching over us, watching us slaughter eachother whilst "sending down his love."
The whole dark vs. light arguement is flawed, why do the faithful always assume that the light will win so to speak no matter what? Is it not possible for us to sink further down the path to damnation, yes it is.
 
Tsarkoe Selo

Tsarkoe Selo

Member
Shadow Wolf said:
I think Satan is a noble, and honorable entity who deserves praise.
God, on the other hand, I find to be a terrible, very oppressive, dictator.
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Dictatorship?

I find something interesting in this.

Enlightened dictatorships do exist and produce harmony and well being through out society better then "free" democracies have. So I wouldn't consider it an insult. Violent despot yes, Dictator no.
 
M

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Satan may be your enemy, but to me, I find his character to be a source of inspiration. And while I don't desire to trace his steps exactly, I definitely want to be on his side rather than God's.
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the Lord says in Qura'an surah 36:76-77

76. Let not their speech, then, grieve thee. Verily We know what they hide as well as what they disclose.

77. Doth not man see that it is We Who created him from sperm? yet behold! he (stands forth) as an open adversary!

and The Lord says in surah 29:41

41. The parable of those who take protectors other than Allah is that of the spider, who builds (to itself) a house; but truly the flimsiest of houses is the spider's house;- if they but knew.


there is aveil on your heart prevents you from seeing the truth
please bear in mind, i don't care if you believe me or not ,but i pray for the Lord to open your heart

 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
Trey of Diamonds said:
So does Satan have free will or were his actions predefined? If his actions are predefined then how can he be responsible for what he does? If God created him to tempt Christ and humanity then isn't God repsonsible for the evil he spreads and therefore evil himself?
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Satan was created to be the 'sound engineer' in heaven, and that he was, until he realised he was so darn good at being himself, he wanted to be god.

And god made all beings with free will, so satan made the descision to go for gold, the throne of god. He's now lower than a human in terms of glory/status.
 
Heneni

Heneni

Miss Independent
Dirty Penguin said:
He ended up exactly where he supposed to be. This was God's plan before he created Satan.
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Then you will also end up exactly where you are suppose to be. Do you know where that is? Or will you one day, just do something that will cause you to end up there? Are you gods puppet?
 
R

raibeart

Member
The image of Satan was not actually created until the Roman Catholics and other religions, used the image of a Celtic diety, Cernunnos, and the Greco-Roman diety, Pan. They used these two dieties to form there image of the Devil (Satan). They taught that the devil was evil and therefore that anyone who worshiped the horned gods, were evil. The idea of the Satan was never actually introduced until centuries after Jesus. In the OT there is no actual evidence of this 'Satan'. Instead there is the 'the accuser' who is introduce in the OT. Who has many times placed certain followers to a test. (i.e. Job) It also states in Isaiah that the morning star was sent to the pit. The pit is where the wicked are sent after death until the coming of the true Messiah. There is no actual proof of torture in the pit or hell, until the NT. He was stripped of his powers and cast into the pit as any wicked ruler from Earth is. So there is no actual fighting between them, and no proof of the belief that there will be some type of fight between good and evil at the coming of the Messiah.
 
Trey of Diamonds

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
The image of Satan may have been an add on but as a character he existed. He was called the accuser and everyone seems to agree that this was who we now call Satan, or do I have that wrong?
 
R

raibeart

Member
Trey of Diamonds said:
The image of Satan may have been an add on but as a character he existed. He was called the accuser and everyone seems to agree that this was who we now call Satan, or do I have that wrong?
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To each there own belief, what I was trying to say though, was that in the Tenach it actually states that (in different words), when 'the accuser' was banished to the pit. He was stripped of his angelic powers, and was left there like all the rulers of the world. The idea of the pit (hell) in the New Testament is that of pain and suffering and vengance, and demons who feed off the dead and wicked. In the Tenach hell is merely a place for the wicked to wait judgement. Where every soul in hell is equal, including the fallen angels.
 
Trey of Diamonds

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
raibeart said:
To each there own belief, what I was trying to say though, was that in the Tenach it actually states that (in different words), when 'the accuser' was banished to the pit. He was stripped of his angelic powers, and was left there like all the rulers of the world. The idea of the pit (hell) in the New Testament is that of pain and suffering and vengance, and demons who feed off the dead and wicked. In the Tenach hell is merely a place for the wicked to wait judgement. Where every soul in hell is equal, including the fallen angels.
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Very interesting, how does it relate to the question at hand?
 
R

raibeart

Member
Trey of Diamonds said:
Very interesting, how does it relate to the question at hand?
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The question at hand is God vs. Satan, correct? Thus my previous statement instates the arguement that there is no 'battle' between them. Satan is merely an power stripped fallen angel, and therefore no longer has powers, and there for is not against G-D except for his anger toward him.

I believe it is merely temptation of the flesh, which is what causes people to turn away from G-D. Satan did not use temptation of the flesh in order to try and thwart Job from G-D, instead he used the things that G-D had blessed him with. To test his faith.

My main point is that there is no 'battle' between the two.
 
BucephalusBB

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Trey of Diamonds said:
What do you think the difference between God and Satan is? Is Satan a lesser being than God or of equal power and standing?
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If God is all that good, he would not want Satan to be evil either. So far he has not succeeded and thus God isn't strong enough for Satan.
If Satan is so evil, he would want God to join him or die. That hasn't succeeded either, so my conclusion has to be that they are both wusses :D
 
Trey of Diamonds

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Bouncing Ball said:
If God is all that good, he would not want Satan to be evil either. So far he has not succeeded and thus God isn't strong enough for Satan.
If Satan is so evil, he would want God to join him or die. That hasn't succeeded either, so my conclusion has to be that they are both wusses :D
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Nice use of deductive reasoning. :bow:
 
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