God wants everyone to be saved

[Truthseeker]

The concept of being saved comes from Christianity. If you are a Christian you believe you need to be saved from the original sin of Adam and Eve and you are saved by the cross sacrifice of Jesus. How those two things got linked I don't know.

It comes from how St. Augustine interpreted Paul the Apostle in the early part of the 5th century. At least that's how it appears to me. I'm no scholar.

 

[Truthseeker]

The intention of our heart is a product of our nature and nurture in my view Tony, thus only an unjust God would give us a certain nature and environment to nurture us then judge us for it in my view.

Sure, understandable. My personal opinion is that our free will is limited, and if nature and nurture bend us in a bad way, if we strive to improve ourselves, that is all God wants. Can't prove that with Baha'i Writings at this time for people who would be convinced by such. It just seems logical to me.

 

[Truthseeker]

After reading the Bible without the rose-colored glasses of my Christian indoctrination, I not only view God as an abusive father but also as a sadistic and psychopathic monster who delights in inflicting pain and torturing people, as well as in causing chaos and disasters in order to inflict pain and kill people. If hell exists, then I'd consider God to be the ideal offender to go there forever and rot.

The abuses you suffered naturally affect how you see this. You rejection of God perhaps reflects your rejection of people who indoctrinated you while abusing you. I'm not condemning you for this, just making an observation.

 

[danieldemol]

The passages you've shared emphasize the idea of God's universal love and desire for the salvation of all

If an omnipotent God desired salvation of all there is nothing that could prevent everyone getting saved in my view.

 

[Mr. Ed]

All of this is speculation having no solid proof outside of your beliefs, what you read and what you have heard.

 

[ppp]

Why should it be a default? It would not be worth anything if it did not require some effort.

Neither of those sentences are responsive. I didn't ask about how something is valued. I asked why everyone is not saved by default.

The default setting is non-belief and then if people 'want' to be saved, they can download the extra software programs that are needed to be saved.

One cannot want to be saved when one does not believe there is anything to be saved from.

 

[ppp]

Unrecognizable to you since you reason so differently than me.

Again. You are confused. Logical reasoning is a defined process. If you are doing something different, then you are not reasoning logically. You are just doing whatever it is that you are doing then trying to coopt the term to legitimize your own processes. This is the same thing that creationists do with science.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The abuses you suffered naturally affect how you see this. You rejection of God perhaps reflects your rejection of people who indoctrinated you while abusing you. I'm not condemning you for this, just making an observation.

I'd think that you're probably right if it weren't for the fact that I know other former Christians who shared the same perspective on God as me, and none of them experienced what I did while growing up. They were all indoctrinated in Christianity while growing up, as I was, and also raised in church, as I was.

 

[ppp]

The abuses you suffered naturally affect how you see this. You rejection of God perhaps reflects your rejection of people who indoctrinated you while abusing you. I'm not condemning you for this, just making an observation.

People who suffer from abuse are not rationally compromised just because of that abuse. Please stop using emotions as fuel for circumstantial ad hominem attacks.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

People who suffer from abuse are not rationally compromised just because of that abuse. Please stop using emotions as fuel for circumstantial ad hominem attacks.

I've interacted with @Truthseeker before, so I don't think that he was trying to belittle me or be disrespectful about my past. I think he was being sincere.

 

[Trailblazer]

If an omnipotent God desired salvation of all there is nothing that could prevent everyone getting saved in my view.

That is correct. God does want salvation for all, but some people prevent that from happening by rejecting God and His Manifestations.
God could make that happen for all but God doesn't want 'forced' salvation. God wants everyone to use their free will to choose salvation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Neither of those sentences are responsive. I didn't ask about how something is valued. I asked why everyone is not saved by default.

I just answered that in another post.
Saved is not the default setting because God wants humans to choose their own setting.

God wants salvation for all, but some humans prevent that from happening by rejecting God and His Manifestations.
God could make that happen for all but God doesn't want 'forced' salvation. God wants everyone to use their free will to choose salvation.

One cannot want to be saved when one does not believe there is anything to be saved from.

Why would a nonbeliever believe there is anything to be saved from? They wouldn't unless they believed what believers say, and if they believed what believers say then they would be believers.

No, one cannot want to be saved unless they want to know God and be near to God.
There isn't anything to be saved from except not knowing God and not being near to God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Logical reasoning is a defined process.

Define it then.

 

[ppp]

I've interacted with @Truthseeker before, so I don't think that he was trying to belittle me or be disrespectful about my past. I think he was being sincere.

It's the dimissal of the ability to competently evaluate the facts because a person has emotions. It's a casual and irresponsible bludgen routinely weilded against any type of perceived vulnerability in mental state. Sincerity does not factor in.

 

[ppp]

I just answered that in another post.
Saved is not the default setting because God wants humans to choose their own setting.

God wants salvation for all, but some humans prevent that from happening by rejecting God and His Manifestations.
God could make that happen for all but God doesn't want 'forced' salvation. God wants everyone to use their free will to choose salvation.

Why would a nonbeliever believe there is anything to be saved from? They wouldn't unless they believed what believers say, and if they believed what believers say then they would be believers.

No, one cannot want to be saved unless they want to know God and be near to God.
There isn't anything to be saved from except not knowing God and not being near to God.

You are simply describing the internal function of the system. I am asking what justifies the existence of the system at all. You say that God wants everyone to know him. What justifies the system by which he attempts to fulfill his wants?

 

[ppp]

Define it then.

Don't try to give me busy work.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's the dimissal of the ability to competently evaluate the facts because a person has emotions. It's a casual and irresponsible bludgen routinely weilded against any type of perceived vulnerability in mental state. Sincerity does not factor in.

That is about as clear as mud. Can you translate that into plain English?

 

[Trailblazer]

You are simply describing the internal function of the system. I am asking what justifies the existence of the system at all. You say that God wants everyone to know him. What justifies the system by which he attempts to fulfill his wants?

That is easy to answer. God's system of fulfilling His wants doesn't need to be justified by anyone except God.
Here is why:

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

 

[ppp]

That is about as clear as mud. Can you translate that into plain English?

Perhaps. But I am not going to flail about blindly trying to guess what you do or don't understand. Where you understanding of the topic leaves off. Give me something cogent to work with.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It's the dimissal of the ability to competently evaluate the facts because a person has emotions. It's a casual and irresponsible bludgen routinely weilded against any type of perceived vulnerability in mental state. Sincerity does not factor in.

Well, since his post was directed at me and not you, I'll decide how I interpret what he said.