God wants us to love darkness and evil!

[RestlessSoul]

' "Kindly consider the question; what would your good do if evil did not exist, and what would the earth look like if shadows disappeared from it? Shadows are cast by objects and people. Here is the shadow of my sword. Trees and living beings have shadows. Do you want to skin the whole earth, tearing all the trees and living things off it, because of your fantasy of enjoying bare light? You're a fool."

"I won't argue with you, old sophist," replied Matthew Levy.

"You and I speak different languages, but the things we say don't change for all that. And so?"

"He [Yeshua] sent me. He has read the master's work," said Matthew Levi, " and asks you to take the master with you and reward him with peace. Is that hard for you to do, spirit of evil?"

"Nothing is hard for me to do," answered [the devil], "you know that very well." He paused and added: " But why don't you take him with you into the light?"

"He does not deserve the light, he deserves peace," Levy said in a sorrowful voice.'

From The Master and Margarita, by Mikhail Bulgakov.

 

[ratiocinator]

Scaffolding. Life experience is the "scaffolding" to the emerging child of God reared in an environment of potential evil and good. Its by design. You were once 5 years old, it served a purpose. So it is on such a world.

This is no excuse to god's shoddy design. If you suffered all kinds of evil and abuse as a five-year-old, then you were in a bad environment.

 

[Colt]

This is no excuse to god's shoddy design. If you suffered all kinds of evil and abuse as a five-year-old, then you were in a bad environment.

If you can run the universe better then go ahead.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The fact is humans rule.

And I disagree. It may feel like we "rule" now, but I rather suspect nature will have more of a say than we do in our future.

 

[ratiocinator]

If you can run the universe better then go ahead.

If the current universe was designed with humans in mind at all, then it appears to have been designed by a sadistic psychopath. I think it would be really simple (given omnipotence and omniscience) to design a better universe with less or no suffering. Where do I apply?

 

[RestlessSoul]

If the current universe was designed with humans in mind at all, then it appears to have been designed by a sadistic psychopath. I think it would be really simple (given omnipotence and omniscience) to design a better universe with less or no suffering. Where do I apply?

It’s not a design. It’s a constantly evolving symphony in which nothing is fixed, and in which no subjective phenomenon can be truly understood or defined; except in relation to the whole. And the whole is always beyond our understanding.

 

[Colt]

And I disagree. It may feel like we "rule" now, but I rather suspect nature will have more of a say than we do in our future.

Nature has a mind?

 

[Colt]

If the current universe was designed with humans in mind at all, then it appears to have been designed by a sadistic psychopath. I think it would be really simple (given omnipotence and omniscience) to design a better universe with less or no suffering. Where do I apply?

You don’t need to apply, you can be self employed in the management of the universe.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You don’t need to apply, you can be self employed in the management of the universe.

Tried that. I found it to be exhausting, frustrating, and utterly futile.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Nature has a mind?

Keep going.....you almost understand me....

 

[ratiocinator]

You don’t need to apply, you can be self employed in the management of the universe.

How?

 

[ratiocinator]

It’s not a design. It’s a constantly evolving symphony in which nothing is fixed, and in which no subjective phenomenon can be truly understood or defined; except in relation to the whole. And the whole is always beyond our understanding.

No idea what you're even trying to say here. A symphony generally has a composer and a conductor and the subject is whether god (if it exists) wants evil and suffering.

 

[Colt]

How?

Any ego big enough to disagree with how God runs his universe should already know how to run it better. In fact Lucifer tried that.

 

[ratiocinator]

Any ego big enough to disagree with how God runs his universe should already know how to run it better.

This is just getting silly. It's not about knowledge, it's about power. Even an idiot with any sense of compassion and empathy could imagine a better world - which is what makes your god-myth so hard to believe - what any of us lack is the ability to make a universe.

 

[thomas t]

No true Scotsman.

you misunderstood what I was saying.
I said "Christians by name committed suicide". This does not mean that I preclude them from being true Christians.
I chose a neutral term, leaving it open if they are true Christians or not. I am not the one to judge, Jesus is.

There are many horrible things committed by Christians these days, it seems.

2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’

​

This does not mean that
(1) Christians should do so
(2) even today.
You interpret (1) and (2) to be part of that passage. However they are not in there! You made them up.
Strawman.

Free will is logically incoherent except in the compatibilist sense (which would be meaningless with respect to a creator god).

I disagree.

 

[Colt]

This is just getting silly. It's not about knowledge, it's about power. Any idiot with any sense of compassion and empathy, could imagine a better world - which is what makes your god-myth so hard to believe - what any of us lack is the ability to make a universe.

Not everyone sees the world through your mind. I see it as a good world with dark patches. The future will continue to progress towards the age of light and life. The salvaged sons of God continue of from thus world to the next.

 

[ratiocinator]

This does not mean that
(1) Christians should do so
(2) even today.
You interpret (1) and (2) to be part of that passage.

No I didn't. I was just pointing out that (according to the bible) god has commanded people to commit genocide. You said "...the Bible does not command [genocide]. Nowhere in the Bible." You were simply wrong.

However they are not in there! You made them up.

I did nothing but quote a passage in the bible. How did I make anything up?

Strawman.

False.

I disagree.

Okay then, explain how anything can happen that isn't either random or entirely determined by its antecedents (or some combination of the two). And no, just asserting "free will" is a third option doesn't address the logical incoherence - you might as well just say "it's magic, innit?"

 

[ratiocinator]

Not everyone sees the world through your mind. I see it as a good world with dark patches.

Evasion (of your claim "you can be self employed in the management of the universe") noted.

Also, if you think all the suffering in the world is just "dark patches" then I'm once again amazed at how morally blind some religious people can be when it comes to the (supposed) actions of their favourite species of deity.

The future will continue to progress towards the age of light and life. The salvaged sons of God continue of from thus world to the next.

And you really think that (even if I accept it) justifies all the evil and suffering...?

 

[thomas t]

No I didn't. I was just pointing out that (according to the bible) god has commanded people to commit genocide. You said "...the Bible does not command [genocide]. Nowhere in the Bible." You were simply wrong.

no I referred to Christians.
this was my quote:

There are Christians by name who committed genocide. However, the Bible does not command it. Nowhere in the Bible.

Nowhere did God command Christians to commit genocide.

Okay then, explain how anything

no, this is not how it works. You came up with a bold claim. The onus is on you.

 

[Colt]

Evasion (of your claim "you can be self employed in the management of the universe") noted.

Also, if you think all the suffering in the world is just "dark patches" then I'm once again amazed at how morally blind some religious people can be when it comes to the (supposed) actions of their favourite species of deity.



And you really think that (even if I accept it) justifies all the evil and suffering...?

Nothing "justifies" your life, its a gift from the God that you are complaining about. You have a concept of what God should be which is at odds with how things really are. Its your God that's not existing.