God won't stop a piano

[CDRaider]

So I went a lecture about the holocaust. There were four people there who witnessed Kristallnacht and wanted to share their experiences with us.

One of the girls said that at the time people always asked here where God was. they told her that God had abandoned the Jewish people during the Holocaust but this was her response and I think it was an interesting one.

She said that God was there, hes always been there. He doesn't "let thing happen" instead he does not prevent them. She told us that God is in our lives, but if you walk under a window where someone is pushing a piano out, God isn't going to stop the piano from falling. The Nazis fell on Poland, he didn't stop them but he sure was there to help them through it.

What do you think about her response? Do you agree, dissagree?

 

[Random]

I agree. The Jews have reconcilled themselves and the events of the Holocaust to God and one cannot fail to do so in earnest.

The girl made sense.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

God also did not prevent the defeat of Germany.

 

[michel]

I agree; that is why I never think "Why didn't God save all those people who died in the recent earthquake..........."

We live our lives (IMO) free from God's meddling, because that's the whole point of life - tests, lessons and experiences. If God was to interfere, it would negate the point of our living.

 

[CDRaider]

I agree; that is why I never think "Why didn't God save all those people who died in the recent earthquake..........."

We live our lives (IMO) free from God's meddling, because that's the whole point of life - tests, lessons and experiences. If God was to interfere, it would negate the point of our living.

I agree whole heartedly. That is why when terrible things happen, I can't forget that God is there for me and loves me and will help me should I need it. I don't beleive that he is going to throw me to the wolves.

there is also a point that God can only help you if you let him so its DOUBLY important not to lost faith in him when things go bad.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

People are too "oughtistic" when it comes to god. God ought to do this or God ought not let that happen. I don't see god as being this cosmic puppet master.

 

[ckdotca]

But... in the scriptures God often smites evil people and destroys whole nations because of thier inequities. What is to say that he wouldn't do this today? (And no I'm not hinting that the holocost was a punishment for Jews, but rather about bad things in general). Does God not punish people in physical ways as he did in the scriptures? Did Jesus save us from these types of punishments?

I sure don't know the answer, but it is something to think about.

 

[sojourner]

God also did not prevent the defeat of Germany.

Nor the survival of German Jews...

 

[sojourner]

But... in the scriptures God often smites evil people and destroys whole nations because of thier inequities. What is to say that he wouldn't do this today? (And no I'm not hinting that the holocost was a punishment for Jews, but rather about bad things in general). Does God not punish people in physical ways as he did in the scriptures? Did Jesus save us from these types of punishments?

I sure don't know the answer, but it is something to think about.

We have a much different idea today about who are the "people of God," and what kind of iniquity is deserving of genocide...

 

[ayani]

God also did not prevent the defeat of Germany.

yes. and i agree very much with the OP, too.

i find it a much more strengthening, responsible approach to one's relationship with God than seeking to distance one's self from Him in light of suffering or tragedy.

this raises the question- if God does not stop suffering, does this mean that He allows it, or that He can not stop suffering? is it more reassuring to have an all-powerful God who can protect us from suffering, of an all-loving God who allows or can not prevent suffering?

 

[Wandered Off]

We live our lives (IMO) free from God's meddling, because that's the whole point of life - tests, lessons and experiences. If God was to interfere, it would negate the point of our living.

Agreed, though I take it farther than most here in thinking God isn't intervening at all. Selective intervention raises questions like the ones in the OP. For anyone interested in discussing that more unconventional line of thinking, here's a thread:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40560

 

[Mr. Hair]

She said that God was there, hes always been there. He doesn't "let thing happen" instead he does not prevent them. She told us that God is in our lives, but if you walk under a window where someone is pushing a piano out, God isn't going to stop the piano from falling. The Nazis fell on Poland, he didn't stop them but he sure was there to help them through it.

What do you think about her response? Do you agree, dissagree?

I suspect that for God to do something, God would first have to be something. It's difficult for me to say I agree or disagree with her statement, since I suspect it's largely dependent on how one views and conceptualises God.

I do, however, admire the benign spirit behind her analogy.

 

[Faint]

She said that God was there, hes always been there. He doesn't "let thing happen" instead he does not prevent them. She told us that God is in our lives, but if you walk under a window where someone is pushing a piano out, God isn't going to stop the piano from falling. The Nazis fell on Poland, he didn't stop them but he sure was there to help them through it.

What do you think about her response? Do you agree, dissagree?

Disagree. Why? Because in action is sometimes action of course. This is an old arguement: if God exists, why does he let bad things happen? Why would he ALLOW the holocaust, or the Nanking massacre, or the Rwandan genocide, or any other large or small scale tragedy? We must assume that if he is all-powerful as the theists believe, then he does indeed ALLOW such things to happen. This would be like a lifeguard just standing around poolside watching a drowning child and not moving to save him...then turning around to say "I was there to support all those people who didn't drown" or saying something like "it's not my fault the child drowned. It's because of the sins of everyone else in the pool." Lame reasoning.

Come on...this isn't astrophysics. It's very simple...either:
1) God doesn't exist.
2) God exists but he's not all-powerful/all-knowing.
3) God exists but he doesn't care about humans.
4) God exists but he only cares about some humans.
5) God wants people to suffer and thus he is not benevolent as many assume.
6) Human tragedy, war, genocide, murder, rape, child molestation, etc. are part of God's great ineffable plan and necessary for the good of humankind. In other words, he's building a postmortem Disneyland from the bones of victims. Could you honestly enjoy a themepark/heaven knowing that the cost was so much suffering? Could you trust a designer who (given infinite intelligence/power) could not conceive of a better way to build paradise?

 

[fantome profane]

We have a much different idea today about who are the "people of God," and what kind of iniquity is deserving of genocide...

Who is “we”, and what is the “different idea today”?

 

[Ulver]

Good and Evil matter not to God. That would be my line of thinking. Tragedy will happen and it's pointless to think of God's involvement. God is either within everything or outside of everything. He's not a gardener.

 

[lunamoth]

Disagree. Why? Because in action is sometimes action of course. This is an old arguement: if God exists, why does he let bad things happen? Why would he ALLOW the holocaust, or the Nanking massacre, or the Rwandan genocide, or any other large or small scale tragedy?

Why do we let bad things happen?

I don't believe in an interventionist God Who answers some prayers (based on what? right belief? right prayer? being chosen?). Sorry, such a God would be a monster.

God does help. He gave us each other.

2 c,
luna

 

[dbakerman76]

So I went a lecture about the holocaust. There were four people there who witnessed Kristallnacht and wanted to share their experiences with us.

One of the girls said that at the time people always asked here where God was. they told her that God had abandoned the Jewish people during the Holocaust but this was her response and I think it was an interesting one.

She said that God was there, hes always been there. He doesn't "let thing happen" instead he does not prevent them. She told us that God is in our lives, but if you walk under a window where someone is pushing a piano out, God isn't going to stop the piano from falling. The Nazis fell on Poland, he didn't stop them but he sure was there to help them through it.

What do you think about her response? Do you agree, dissagree?

I totally agree with her response. For me this is the God that I know and experience on a daily basis.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Come on...this isn't astrophysics. It's very simple...either:
1) God doesn't exist.
2) God exists but he's not all-powerful/all-knowing.
3) God exists but he doesn't care about humans.
4) God exists but he only cares about some humans.
5) God wants people to suffer and thus he is not benevolent as many assume.
6) Human tragedy, war, genocide, murder, rape, child molestation, etc. are part of God's great ineffable plan and necessary for the good of humankind. In other words, he's building a postmortem Disneyland from the bones of victims. Could you honestly enjoy a themepark/heaven knowing that the cost was so much suffering? Could you trust a designer who (given infinite intelligence/power) could not conceive of a better way to build paradise?

Process Theology of the Cross

 

[Ozzie]

So I went a lecture about the holocaust. There were four people there who witnessed Kristallnacht and wanted to share their experiences with us.

One of the girls said that at the time people always asked here where God was. they told her that God had abandoned the Jewish people during the Holocaust but this was her response and I think it was an interesting one.

She said that God was there, hes always been there. He doesn't "let thing happen" instead he does not prevent them. She told us that God is in our lives, but if you walk under a window where someone is pushing a piano out, God isn't going to stop the piano from falling. The Nazis fell on Poland, he didn't stop them but he sure was there to help them through it.

What do you think about her response? Do you agree, dissagree?

This idea seems to invoke God in a state of suspended animation on causation. Reponsible for effects but not causes...... God in this view would have infinite potential to act but does not when he chooses? If we are to interpret only the effects as Gods work it suffices to rule God out altogether. Contrast this with the evil in the Poland scenario which is active not potential, and causes God's effect. Ultimately this account seems to suggest that the problem of evil does not exist as a philosophical question on God's existence.

Not sure if this above makes sense but the girl's account of God's work seems circular to me.

 

[CDRaider]

You know, all my life I have always imagined God leaning down resting his head in his hands and he has the BIGGEST grin on his face watching try and debate what he is, what he does, and how he does what he does.