Godless is lack of Virtues.

[TransmutingSoul]

Not true. If they believe in Gods, go to church and commit heinous acts. They are still the Religion they claim they are. You don't get to claim who is or is not Godless, as it's not your belief. Only they can say whether or not they do.

It is their own scriptures that condemn such actions and also offer they are not of the Faith they claim, if they do not practice the required Virtues.

Would you like to explore that concept.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Your OP was slander against non-religious and non-theistic people. Equating virtue with "godliness" and vice with "godlessness" is prejudice and religious chauvinism.

The OP in no way was inferring that, that is a personal choice to see it that way.

If a person looks to the light of love it is offered in, then you will see it in another way.

Regards Tony

 

[Altfish]

They were Godless, lacking virtues.

What this OP is also exploring is how the use of names and titles, automatically prevent people from exploring what is being said.

If you read this OP correctly, or the way intended, if it is not clear, it is saying people are defined by virtues or vices, not by names and titles.

Regards Tony

Thus non-believers can be just as virtuous

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nice thread, I appreciate it

I have a nice analogy in this context

A human is an incarnation of the Divine. Hence:
A Theist is an incarnation of the Divine
An Atheist is an incarnation of the Divine

Quite some "unity in Diversity", right @TransmutingSoul?

Agree 100%

Our choices in virtue define us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You might consider that the communication glitch is on your end.

It was no glitch, it is finding predudices can indeed cloud how people read what is offered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thus non-believers can be just as virtuous

Correct, but add even more virtuous.

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

It is their own scriptures that condemn such actions and also offer they are not of the Faith they claim, if they do not practice the required Virtues.

Would you like to explore that concept.

Regards Tony

Most religious persons don't rely on scripture. Does that make then not Religious. Therefore whether they are living up to particular values is still not our call, or their scriptures call either.

Because they (script/words) can be wrong, especially in regards to morality.

Edit: Take Paganism. As a pagan I don't have Scriptures to live up to, but I am a moral.and virtuous person.

Edit 2: Scripture only confirms or denies your biases in regard to what you think morality is and how it should be enacted. It's a definition, not an question/answer.

 

[Altfish]

Correct, but add even more virtuous.

Regards Tony

Why do we need the word 'more'?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why do we need the word 'more'?

Good point, as it is not a competition, maybe just a confirmation that virtues are not the domain of only those that claim a specific faith.

In some case people that have chosen a faith can show less virtues than a person without faith.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death.

Since this is in a debate forum, would you offer a
cogent & evidenced argument for the claim that
I & my fellow heathens are "darkness and death"?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Most religious persons don't rely on scripture. Does that make then not Religious. Therefore whether they are living up to particular values is still not our call, or their scriptures call either.

Because they (script/words) can be wrong, especially in regards to morality.

Edit: Take Paganism. As a pagan I don't have Scriptures to live up to, but I am a moral.and virtuous person.

Edit 2: Scripture only confirms or denies your biases in regard to what you think morality is and how it should be enacted. It's a definition, not an question/answer.

Many will then live within the required virtues and morality defined by law in the land they live.

It all requires our submission to the greater good.

Total anarchy is on the side of darkness, freedom of choice in given just and fair boundaries, are a move towards the light.

Regards Tony

 

[Nakosis]

That is the point of the OP. It is the predudices built upon names and titles that show how we can reject the obvious.

People will even start quoting bad things faith has done, saying athiest can be better, when the OP already has offered that the lack of virtues, or in a faith sense, godless actions are possible for both people of faith and no faith.

Just as virtues actions or Godliness are a choice we can all make.

Regards Tony

So you are trying to redefine god and godless?
Probably not something an atheist can relate to.

godless has usually been used as a derogatory term.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since this is in a debate forum, would you offer a
cogent & evidenced argument for the claim that
I & my fellow heathens are "darkness and death"?

Please reread the OP, it is not offering that.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you are trying to redefine god and godless?
Probably not something an atheist can relate to.

godless has usually been used as a derogatory term.

I am not redefining, I am sharing a concept given in my faith.

That virtues are light and vices are lack of the light of virtues.

A person of faith thus equates that to Godliness and Godlessness, but they are really saying the same thing.

Regards Tony

 

[The Hammer]

I am not redefining, I am sharing a concept given in my faith.

That virtues are light and vices are lack of the light of virtues.

A person of faith thus equates that to Godliness and Godlessness, but they are really saying the same thing.

Regards Tony

I'm just going to agree to disagree.

Good day.

 

[Revoltingest]

Please reread the OP, it is not offering that.

Regards Tony

I did.
The question stands.
If it's the wrong question, you could elaborate.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Since this is in a debate forum, would you offer a
cogent & evidenced argument for the claim that
I & my fellow heathens are "darkness and death"?

I did.
The question stands.
If it's the wrong question, you could elaborate.

The OP did not offer what you have asked .

Godliness = Virtues = Light

Godless = Lack of Virtues = Lack of light.

The OP offers all humanity is defined by either of those options.

Names and titles are clouds that create predudices. In saying that Names and Titles can also be a virtue or a vice.

It all comes down to our choices in virtues, or vices.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

The OP did not offer what you have asked .

Godliness = Virtues = Light

Godless = Lack of Virtues = Lack of light.

The OP offers all humanity is defined by either of those options.

Names and titles are clouds that create predudices. In saying that Names and Titles can also be a virtue or a vice.

It all comes down to our choices in virtues, or vices.

Regards Tony

OK.
You might wanna work on being clearer.
We godless folk are a sensitive & easily
triggered bunch'o snowflakes.
At least I am.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

predudices can indeed cloud how people read what is offered.

So if half the thread agree that you are the prejudiced one, they are prejudiced. If only people were as objective as you.

The OP in no way was inferring that, that is a personal choice to see it that way.

And if they agree that your words don't mean what you think they do, they are the ones who are wrong. If only people were more literate.

In some case people that have chosen a faith can show less virtues than a person without faith.

How is that possible if godlessness is a lack of virtue? I'm godless, which incidentally, I consider a virtue, but to you, I lack virtue. I am the darkness, and forever doomed to it unless I can find a means to forget that I require evidence to believe, and become godded like you and the other virtuous people.

This is the second thread from you in recent weeks that I've seen go south from page one. You will continue to to be criticized for your bigoted views of the "godless" for as long as this thread continues, just like the last one. And your religion will take another hit for it. You want others to see it as a beautiful thing, and perhaps be drawn to it, but is that realistic given the responses you are getting here?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God is likened to the Sun, the source of light and life.

Thus Godless is the exact opposite, it is darkness and death.

So from a faith perspective, Godliness is being made alive in the light of God which is all the virtues.

In that context, a person of faith is to look for the light, from no matter where it shines, but most importantly become the light that is life itself and build lasting connections in family communities and Nations.

A person with no faith must then choose virtue over vice for their own reasons, but there is no disputing, virtues make the person and create harmony, whereas vices tear apart people, families, communities and Nations.

In that way, humanity can find a unity in its diversity.

View attachment 61678


So how do we promote virtues over vices, to an extent that war is no longer considered or tolerated?

Regards Tony

Rubbish!

I have tons of virtues (and a few faults, to boot). And I know a whole lot of God-obsessed people whose faults and lack of some virtues can be directly attributed to believing in what can't be evidenced.