Gods 10 commandments

[GawdAweful]

But you must also explain Paul's words at Romans chpt 2 and chpt 7 quoted earlier. There seems little doubt he was including the Ten Commandments as belonging to 'the law' which we have been discharged from, or died to, releasing us from the 'written code' that included the words 'Thou shalt not covet'.

 

[Andywel]

NO


Are they really gods commandments?

Because Egypt and Mesopotamia both had these same commandments much earlier then Israelites.

Pl. tell me where I can find the same commandments you mention above. I am very interested.

 

[WALL]

When speaking of 'the law' the Jews had been instructed in, Paul included parts of the 'Ten Commandments'

17 But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the law and boast of your relation to God 18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed in the law, 19 and if you are sure that you are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- 21 you then who teach others, will you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
Romans 2:17-23

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

I agree with Peter. Pauls writings are not easy to understand. Lets 1st use common sense. Who would like to see you break the 10 commandments? Jesus or satan? Whats Paul say about that in Romans 2?

Romans 2:13 (KJV)
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The 10 commandments are brought up in Romans 2 because there were Jews who rested in the law, thinking the law was to save them. Paul pointed out that they broke the 10 commandments and by the keeping of the law they would not be saved. Its in all Pauls writings....We are saved by grace, a free gift apart from how well we keep the law. But again, what was the main discussion about in Romans 2?

Romans 2:25-29 (KJV)
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Yup. Once again its circumcision.

Another thing. Your not alone in accusing Paul of preaching against Gods law. It was being done during his lifetime

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Paul set them straight

 

[WALL]

I have a question. Weve seen all these discussions about circumsicion in the NT. There everywhere. The whole book of Galatians is a discussion about it. Yet nowhere do you find a discussion about changing one of Gods 10 commandments. The Sabbath. Whys that?

 

[WALL]

4 Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit. 7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet, if it had not been for the law, I should not have known sin. I should not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

The key is in verse 6

ROMANS 7 [6] But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

As we can see in above scriptures we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk only in the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, thou shalt not commit adultery: [28] But i say unto you, that WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY with her already in his heart.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life).

 

[WALL]

The Christians were actually givin many warnings about the bad guys and what they would do. The warnings are all around the new testament.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

Watch out for these roaring lions!

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

Beware of false these prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that “the many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES were there from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

Well, I found all these warnings from the new testament in one scripture. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word. Its a Day of the Lord scripture. When Jesus returns.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings

 

[sojourner]

Surely there is clear differentiation

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

In the old testament we can see that the law AND the ten commandments are separate. And means and.

1 COR.7 [18] Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.[19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

In above scripture we find that even though circumcision was nailed to the cross, we are still to be keeping Gods ten commandments

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Jesus himself separates the law of Moses and the 10 commandments. He clearly separates the sabbath day {4th commandment} on which no work is to be done and the law of circumcision being done on the sabbath so as the law of Moses be not broken.

Proof-texting is no excuse for bad exegesis.

 

[sojourner]

2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.

I agree with Peter. Pauls writings are not easy to understand. Lets 1st use common sense. Who would like to see you break the 10 commandments? Jesus or satan? Whats Paul say about that in Romans 2?

Romans 2:13 (KJV)
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The 10 commandments are brought up in Romans 2 because there were Jews who rested in the law, thinking the law was to save them. Paul pointed out that they broke the 10 commandments and by the keeping of the law they would not be saved. Its in all Pauls writings....We are saved by grace, a free gift apart from how well we keep the law. But again, what was the main discussion about in Romans 2?

Romans 2:25-29 (KJV)
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Yup. Once again its circumcision.

Another thing. Your not alone in accusing Paul of preaching against Gods law. It was being done during his lifetime

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Paul set them straight

<Ahem> You, of course, realize that Paul didn't write Acts.

 

[WALL]

<Ahem> You, of course, realize that Paul didn't write Acts.

You do realize Paul spoke those words in the book of Acts

 

[sojourner]

You do realize Paul spoke those words in the book of Acts

No. Paul is quoted as speaking them. But the concept is clearly that of the writer of Luke-Acts.

 

[WALL]

No. Paul is quoted as speaking them.

Yup. That's what i said

 

[sojourner]

Yup. That's what i said

Nope. Here's what you said:

Paul spoke those words

There's a difference.

 

[WALL]

<Ahem> You, of course, realize that Paul didn't write Acts.

Never said he wrote Acts. He did however write Ephesians.

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture was one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 and if you were to go look at all the wonderful promises of this covenant, should you take hold of it, you’d be amazed sojourner.

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company

 

[johnb21]

Must we "observe" to keep the 10 commandments {including the Sabbath} in order to be saved to the kingdom?

God gave Moses the 10 Commandments on Sinai after the Exodus from Egypt. The Hebrews (Jehovah's chosen people) were then given the commandments by Moses to be strictly adhered to, providing guidance every step of the way to how God wanted us to be, now and future. By following these commandements we not only assure our salvation but live God's way and not Satan's. We cannot cherrypick which ones we will follow. Following all the commandments brings reward, disregarding those we do not like does not.
It matters not which choice we make, after all its our life here and future, and our salvation.
JohnB

 

[CMike]

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

That passages in last week's Torah portion.

It states clearly that the laws regarding sabbath will be forever.

 

[metis]

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

On which day do you observe the Sabbath, and please explain how you do observe it?

 

[johnb21]

On which day do you observe the Sabbath, and please explain how you do observe it?

Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. In Christianity, both those who observe the seventh day as Sabbath and those who observe the first day as Sabbath consider themselves "Sabbatarian" and regard Sabbath as "Lord's Day"
I personally observe the Sabbath by not doing any servile work, which means gardening, Diy, &c. I keep the Sabbath Holy; and do not recognise Sunday which is Roman sun worship. I find it quite easy because I am retired now, but when I had a young family, and a mortgage, and bills to pay, it would have been more difficult, alas I was in my own business.
See Genesis 2: 2-3.
JohnB

 

[Levite]

Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. In Christianity, both those who observe the seventh day as Sabbath and those who observe the first day as Sabbath consider themselves "Sabbatarian" and regard Sabbath as "Lord's Day"
I personally observe the Sabbath by not doing any servile work, which means gardening, Diy, &c. I keep the Sabbath Holy; and do not recognise Sunday which is Roman sun worship. I find it quite easy because I am retired now, but when I had a young family, and a mortgage, and bills to pay, it would have been more difficult, alas I was in my own business.
See Genesis 2: 2-3.
JohnB

How interesting. I had no idea that Christians ever did this, with the exception of Seventh Day Adventists.

 

[metis]

Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. In Christianity, both those who observe the seventh day as Sabbath and those who observe the first day as Sabbath consider themselves "Sabbatarian" and regard Sabbath as "Lord's Day"

Except the Sabbath and the "Lord's Day" are two different days of the week, the latter being used in the early church to refer to Sunday because of Jesus supposedly being resurrected on that day. "Sabbath" is "Shabbat" in Hebrew, and as you correctly state above, it refers to sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. For the early Christians, the "Lord's Day" on Sunday was when the "agape meal" was eaten in community with each other, and this even shows up in the Didache, which was written around 100 c.e.

I personally observe the Sabbath by not doing any servile work, which means gardening, Diy, &c. I keep the Sabbath Holy; and do not recognise Sunday which is Roman sun worship. I find it quite easy because I am retired now, but when I had a young family, and a mortgage, and bills to pay, it would have been more difficult, alas I was in my own business.
See Genesis 2: 2-3.
JohnB

There are quite a few do's and don't's designated by Torah/Tanakh for Shabbat, so you might check this out: Judaism 101: Shabbat

If you're a gentile, you are not bound by the Sabbath Laws, but I congratulate you on doing so because I really do believe we need a day of rest, especially in today's hectic world.

 

[suzy smith]

I thought observance of the Sabbath was dying out now. It has in the U.K.