God's Attitude Toward Homosexuality

[Subduction Zone]

Totally agreed.

(Still staying big picture here)
I do believe that there is a God out there. God is the apex of goodness. He asks us to do good things and not to do bad things. His ways are good.

Conversely, other ways are less than the apex of goodness and involve some aspect which is harmful (to various degrees of course).

Make sense? I'm know you don't believe there is a God, so I don't expect you to agree with me. Just asking if I make sense?

The problem is that the God of the Old Testament is far from being "the apex of goodness". One cannot simply assume that God is good. Or that he is moral. There may be a God out there, but it is rather apparent that it is not the God of the Bible.

 

[Jane.Doe]

The problem is that the God of the Old Testament is far from being "the apex of goodness". One cannot simply assume that God is good. Or that he is moral. There may be a God out there, but it is rather apparent that it is not the God of the Bible.

I'm all for investigation.

Upon my many years of investigation, I do conclude that there is a God and He is the apex of mortality. Now, my understanding of the OT and rest of theology is different than yours- that's already been established. I'm happy to explain my investigation process and results more thoroughly if you'd like.

Of course I respect your conclusions as well (simply because they are an extension of you), even though I don't agree with them.

 

[Skwim]

Let's take a closer look at what you said

You said --->(According to many Christians god doesn't condemn romantic attraction or sexual attraction between members of the same sex; however, physically acting on that attraction is a huge No-no, even an abomination worthy of the death penalty)

Had you notice you said according to many Christians.
I would have to ask those Christians to show in the bible where it actually will say what their saying.

Because there is no where in the bible that will support those Christians claims.

When an issue is between the affirmative case, e.g. "There is X" and the negative case,, e. g. "There is not X," the burden of "proof" lies with the person making the affirmative case, which in this case would be you. You contend the Bible says god does condemn romantic attraction or sexual attraction between members of the same sex, so it's up to you to show where he does.

.

 

[Skwim]

Remembering Him includes partaking of the emblems of His sacrifice which is a renewal of the covenant we made at baptism.

Ah ha!

.​

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm all for investigation.

Upon my many years of investigation, I do conclude that there is a God and He is the apex of mortality. Now, my understanding of the OT and rest of theology is different than yours- that's already been established. I'm happy to explain my investigation process and results more thoroughly if you'd like.

Of course I respect your conclusions as well (simply because they are an extension of you), even though I don't agree with them.

I would like to hear how you investigated. Too often people do not investigate but only confirm their own prejudices. Me too at times.

 

[Faithofchristian]

When an issue is between the affirmative case, e.g. "There is X" and the negative case,, e. g. "There is not X," the burden of "proof" lies with the person making the affirmative case, which in this case would be you. You contend the Bible says god does condemn romantic attraction or sexual attraction between members of the same sex, so it's up to you to show where he does.

.

Nope, if you had read my post properly you would seen that I never said anything about homosexals.
But upon reading your post #243.
And going back your post #1.

That's when I notice that I misunderstood you.

But I do want to thank you for bringing that to my attention.
As I couldn't figure out at first, what you were talking about, all because I knew
I didn't say anything about homosexuals.

But now that you brought it to my attention, God does not approve of man laying with man, as he would a woman.

So now the burden of proof lays with you, to show where God ever approved of homosexuality.

 

[Jane.Doe]

I would like to hear how you investigated. Too often people do not investigate but only confirm their own prejudices. Me too at times.

Oh this is a BIG subject. Any particular part you're interested in, or just the overview?

 

[columbus]

So now the burden of proof lays with you, to show where God ever approved of homosexuality.

Google "Zeus and Ganymede".

God likes his boys.

If you think you know more about God than Plato, feel free to explain why I should believe you.
Tom

 

[Faithofchristian]

Google "Zeus and Ganymede".

God likes his boys.

If you think you know more about God than Plato, feel free to explain why I should believe you.
Tom

So you say, but it stands as is, homosexuality is abomination unto God.

Leviticus 18:22--"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13---"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"

 

[Skwim]

Nope, if you had read my post properly you would seen that I never said anything about homosexals.
But upon reading your post #243.
And going back your post #1.

That's when I notice that I misunderstood you.

But I do want to thank you for bringing that to my attention.
As I couldn't figure out at first, what you were talking about, all because I knew
I didn't say anything about homosexuals.

But now that you brought it to my attention, God does not approve of man laying with man, as he would a woman.

So now the burden of proof lays with you, to show where God ever approved of homosexuality.

The point some Christians make, and which I find justified, is that god never condemned homosexual attraction in the Bible. Just because he condemns X doesn't mean we can infer he condemns Y. In the Bible in ALL cases ONLY homosexual activity is condemned. Never the attraction to or desire for someone of the same sex.

Leviticus 18:22
‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Romans 1:26-27
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.​

And please note the definition of "homosexuality from the following five sources.

GOOGLE DICTIONARY
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty
/ˌhōməˌsekSHəˈwalədē/
noun
noun: homosexuality; plural noun: homosexualities
sexual attraction to people of one's own sex.

________________________________________

MERRIAM-WEBSTER DICTIONARY
homosexuality noun
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty | \ˌhō-mə-ˌsek-shə-ˈwa-lə-tē\
Definition of homosexuality
1 : sexual attraction or the tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex : the quality or state of being homosexual

_________________________________________

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
Homosexuality, sexual interest in and attraction to members of one’s own sex. The term gay is frequently used as a synonym for homosexual; female homosexuality is often referred to as lesbianism.

_________________________________________

OXFORD LIVING DICTIONARIES
homosexuality
Pronunciation /ˌhɒmə(ʊ)ˌsɛkʃʊəˈalɪti//ˌhəʊmə(ʊ)ˌsɛkʃʊˈalɪti/
noun
mass noun
The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex.

__________________________________________

RANDOM HOUSE WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY
homosexuality ˌhō-mə-ˌsek-shə-ˈwa-lə-tē
noun
1. Sexual attraction toward members of one's own sex
​

So, this is the sense in which I and others use the word in reference to the Biblical issue. LOOK, YEARN, AND DREAM BUT DON'T TOUCH.

.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The point some Christians make, and which I find justified, is that god never condemned homosexual attraction in the Bible. Just because he condemns X doesn't mean we can infer he condemns Y. In the Bible in ALL cases ONLY homosexual activity is condemned. Never the attraction to or desire for someone of the same sex.

Leviticus 18:22
‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Romans 1:26-27
26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men.​

And please note the definition of "homosexuality from the following five sources.

GOOGLE DICTIONARY
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty
/ˌhōməˌsekSHəˈwalədē/
noun
noun: homosexuality; plural noun: homosexualities
sexual attraction to people of one's own sex.

________________________________________

MERRIAM-WEBSTER DICTIONARY
homosexuality noun
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty | \ˌhō-mə-ˌsek-shə-ˈwa-lə-tē\
Definition of homosexuality
1 : sexual attraction or the tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex : the quality or state of being homosexual

_________________________________________

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
Homosexuality, sexual interest in and attraction to members of one’s own sex. The term gay is frequently used as a synonym for homosexual; female homosexuality is often referred to as lesbianism.

_________________________________________

OXFORD LIVING DICTIONARIES
homosexuality
Pronunciation /ˌhɒmə(ʊ)ˌsɛkʃʊəˈalɪti//ˌhəʊmə(ʊ)ˌsɛkʃʊˈalɪti/
noun
mass noun
The quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex.

__________________________________________

RANDOM HOUSE WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY
homosexuality ˌhō-mə-ˌsek-shə-ˈwa-lə-tē
noun
1. Sexual attraction toward members of one's own sex
​

So, this is the sense in which I and others use the word in reference to the Biblical issue. LOOK, YEARN, AND DREAM BUT DON'T TOUCH.

.

That's all nice and dandy, but what has that to do with God calling man that lays with man as he would a woman is abomination unto God.

Maybe instead of your going by what man will say, why don't you go by what God will say.
Seeing that you want to be the judge and jury.
If your going to judge God, at lease let God defend himself.
It seems all you want to do, is be one sided.
Throughout the bible, God will tell you exactly how he feels about homosexuality.

 

[Skwim]

That's all nice and dandy, but what has that to do with God calling man that lays with man as he would a woman is abomination unto God.

Maybe instead of your going by what man will say, why don't you go by what God will say.
Seeing that you want to be the judge and jury.
If your going to judge God, at lease let God defend himself.
It seems all you want to do, is be one sided.
Throughout the bible, God will tell you exactly how he feels about homosexuality.

Do you really not comprehend the issue, the one you, yourself, are struggling with? Or is this just an attempt to slide away from it?

The "it" being: while god condemns homosexual sex, he never condemns homosexuality, the sexual orientation and attraction to people of one's own sex. In essence, god isn't concerned that you're attracted to guys, just don't go touching pee pees with them.

However, if you honestly believe god condemns people because of their sexual orientation and attraction to those of the same sex (homosexuality), I still await your evidence.


.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Do you really not comprehend the issue, the one you, yourself, are struggling with? Or is this just an attempt to slide away from it?

The "it" being: while god condemns homosexual sex, he never condemns homosexuality, the sexual orientation and attraction to people of one's own sex. In essence, god isn't concerned that you're attracted to guys, just don't go touching pee pees with them.

However, if you honestly believe god condemns people because of their sexual orientation and attraction to those of the same sex (homosexuality), I still await your evidence.


.

I beg your pardon, when God said
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"
Leviticus 18:22.

" If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13

That's pretty much explanatory, homosexuality.
Why is it that people are found in trying to twist things around in the bible, when it's very self evidence what's being said.

Meaning homosexuality, when a man lays with another man, as he would lay with a woman, let's see what is that called,
Ho yeah, that's right, homosexuality.

It would seem that if a person going to question God, at the most give God the chance to defend himself in his word the bible.
As I never heard of trying to put down someone, without giving them the chance to see what they will say on the matter.

My advice would be, if people can not handle what God has to say about homosexuality, Then don't include God in the conversation.
For it doesn't change the out come not one bit.
But as it is, people will try to change the things, only to have an exuse for their homosexuality acts.

As it is a person can go from the book of Genesis all the way down to the book of Revelation and find just exactly what God has to say about homosexuality.

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" Revelation 22:15.

Notice ( whoremongers) this being homosexuality. That will not enter The kingdom of God.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" Revelation 22:14-15.

Knowing there are people who will not be able to handle it, all because their looking for a way out of it, So they turn to man, that will give them a way out, but that doesn't mean God is giving them a way out.

Nope not at all.So when God said that man that lays with man, as he would a woman, is abomination it stands as is.

 

[Prestor John]

Please. you are projecting again. I can help you understand your book of myths, well not that Book of Mormon. It is hard to take that obvious fraudulent work as anything more than a work of comedy.

I know for a fact that you have never read the Book of Mormon and all your understanding of the Bible comes from anti-religion sources that apply the laziest interpretations to the text.

Everything you say here just makes you look more ignorant and foolish.

 

[Prestor John]

Ah ha!

.​

How is this fact me moving the goal post?

 

[Prestor John]

Do you really not comprehend the issue, the one you, yourself, are struggling with? Or is this just an attempt to slide away from it?

The "it" being: while god condemns homosexual sex, he never condemns homosexuality, the sexual orientation and attraction to people of one's own sex. In essence, god isn't concerned that you're attracted to guys, just don't go touching pee pees with them.

However, if you honestly believe god condemns people because of their sexual orientation and attraction to those of the same sex (homosexuality), I still await your evidence.


.

This is essentially true.

We all have weaknesses in our flesh. The weakness given to some is an attraction to the same-sex.

It is possible that all of our weaknesses can eventually be overcome through faith in Christ and sincere repentance, either in this life or in the spirit world.

It is my understanding that the weakness of same-sex attraction only exists in mortality and will not persist into the spirit world.

God does not judge anyone for having any weakness. He only judges us if and when we succumb to our weaknesses.

Having a same-sex attraction does not make a person guilty of the sin of homosexuality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know for a fact that you have never read the Book of Mormon and all your understanding of the Bible comes from anti-religion sources that apply the laziest interpretations to the text.

Everything you say here just makes you look more ignorant and foolish.

Yep, never read that. But since it is widely known to be a fraudulent piece of work why would I need to read it? And no, my understanding of the Bible does not come from "anti-religion sources".

And you are projecting again. Your belief in myths and lies forces you to look ignorant and foolish. Most Christians cannot afford to understand the Bible. Understanding it refutes it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is essentially true.

We all have weaknesses in our flesh. The weakness given to some is an attraction to the same-sex.

It is possible that all of our weaknesses can eventually be overcome through faith in Christ and sincere repentance, either in this life or in the spirit world.

It is my understanding that the weakness of same-sex attraction only exists in mortality and will not persist into the spirit world.

God does not judge anyone for having any weakness. He only judges us if and when we succumb to our weaknesses.

Having a same-sex attraction does not make a person guilty of the sin of homosexuality.

That is hardly a "weakness". This is more nonsense based upon a religion of self hatred and hatred of others.

 

[Skwim]

I beg your pardon, when God said
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"
Leviticus 18:22.

" If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13

That's pretty much explanatory, homosexuality.
Why is it that people are found in trying to twist things around in the bible, when it's very self evidence what's being said.

Meaning homosexuality, when a man lays with another man, as he would lay with a woman, let's see what is that called,
Ho yeah, that's right, homosexuality.

It would seem that if a person going to question God, at the most give God the chance to defend himself in his word the bible.
As I never heard of trying to put down someone, without giving them the chance to see what they will say on the matter.

My advice would be, if people can not handle what God has to say about homosexuality, Then don't include God in the conversation.
For it doesn't change the out come not one bit.
But as it is, people will try to change the things, only to have an exuse for their homosexuality acts.

As it is a person can go from the book of Genesis all the way down to the book of Revelation and find just exactly what God has to say about homosexuality.

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" Revelation 22:15.

Notice ( whoremongers) this being homosexuality. That will not enter The kingdom of God.


"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" Revelation 22:14-15.

Knowing there are people who will not be able to handle it, all because their looking for a way out of it, So they turn to man, that will give them a way out, but that doesn't mean God is giving them a way out.

Nope not at all.So when God said that man that lays with man, as he would a woman, is abomination it stands as is.

Have a good day.

 

[Skwim]

How is this fact me moving the goal post?

First of all, it was in part made in jest.

The part not in jest comes down to a literal reading of your remark "Today we keep the Sabbath to remember that He died for us and that He rose again."

Because remembering something, a wholly mental activity, which in this case was something you said was the reason "we keep the Sabbath," does not include any physical activity, such as holding a parade, putting on a stage show, OR "partaking of the emblems of His sacrifice ."

Partaking of His sacrifice, a physical activity, is something you added, and is not implied in your "remembering something." So, adding another element into keeping the Sabbath is moving the goal posts: "In keeping the Sabbath we remember that He died for us and that He rose again, and we partake of the emblems of His sacrifice."

.​