God's love and the destruction of Sodom? How is this reconciled?

[74x12]

How on earth did 200 English translators get that wrong???????

Well, I had to look it up but even in English a young male donkey is still a colt.

foal - young donkey
colt - young male donkey
filly - young female donkey

adult male donkey - jack
adult female donkey - jennet

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Well, I had to look it up but even in English a young male donkey is still a colt.

foal - young donkey
colt - young male donkey
filly - young female donkey

adult male donkey - jack
adult female donkey - jennet

What in the heck dictionary are you using??????????
A filly is a young female HORSE. I didn't have to look that up to know it, but here's the definition anyway

fil·ly
/ˈfilē/

noun
noun: filly; plural noun: fillies
a young female horse, especially one less than four years old.

 

[74x12]

What in the heck dictionary are you using??????????
A filly is a young female HORSE. I didn't have to look that up to know it, but here's the definition anyway
View attachment 49058
fil·ly
/ˈfilē/

noun
noun: filly; plural noun: fillies
a young female horse, especially one less than four years old.

Well do you own a donkey or a donkey farm? I mean come on man ... I'm trying to tell you what words donkey people use. Not that I would know but apparently they do use those words.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Well do you own a donkey or a donkey farm? I mean come on man ... I'm trying to tell you what words donkey people use. Not that I would know but apparently they do use those words.

Well, you did say you looked it up, not talked with a couple of donkey farmers and overheard this. I'm just saying I think the Holy Spirit fell asleep at the switch when Matthew was writing this.

 

[The Anointed]

Find a valid source. Apologists are almost never reliable. In fact your source refutes itself by trying to claim that the mythological Flood story happened. Why do you listen to people that call your God a liar?

Why do I listen to people that call my God a liar? For the same reason that I listen to you and to all those atheists, who condemn as liars, anyone who believes in the one true God or any gods at all for that matter: mainly to discover why they believe or disbelieve in MY God, who has neither beginning or end.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do I listen to people that call my God a liar? For the same reason that I listen to you and to all those atheists, who condemn as liars, anyone who believes in the one true God or any gods ay all for that matter: mainly to discover why they believe or disbelieve in MY God, who has neither beginning or end.

No, no, no. I never called your God a liar. Why do literalists have such a hard time understanding this? Those that read the Bible literally are calling their God a liar. This is not a hard concept to understand. If your God cannot lie then many of the stories of the Bible never happened.

 

[The Anointed]

Well, you did say you looked it up, not talked with a couple of donkey farmers and overheard this. I'm just saying I think the Holy Spirit fell asleep at the switch when Matthew was writing this.

Whoever translated the gospel of Matthew, which was originally written in Hebrew, into the Greek and much later into English, are guilty of making many errors, such as riding the donkey colt, and having Matthew saying that Isaiah said that 'virgin' would become pregnant etc, when in fact Matthew was no idiot, he would have known that it was impossible for Jesus to have ridden the 'Jenny' donkey and her colt at the same time, and he also knew that the prophet said that a 'young unmarried woman' would be with child and bear a son.

 

[The Anointed]

No, no, no. I never called your God a liar. Why do literalists have such a hard time understanding this? Those that read the Bible literally are calling their God a liar. This is not a hard concept to understand. If your God cannot lie then many of the stories of the Bible never happened.

There you go once again, proving to all that you are incapable of comprehending that which you read. Never did I say that 'YOU' called my God a liar.

What I said, was that I listen to you, 'AND' to all those atheists, who condemn as liars, anyone who believes in the one true God or any gods at all for that matter: No wonder you are so confused as to the truths that are recorded in the scriptures, You have to be able to understand was is written there to understand the truths.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Whoever translated the gospel of Matthew, which was originally written in Hebrew, into the Greek and much later into English, are guilty of making many errors, such as riding the donkey colt, and having Matthew saying that Isaiah said that 'virgin' would become pregnant etc, when in fact Matthew was no idiot, he would have known that it was impossible for Jesus to have ridden the 'Jenny' donkey and her colt at the same time, and he also knew that the prophet said that a 'young unmarried woman' would be with child and bear a son.

I agree. obviously you believe the Bible is not an inerrant document free of errors. I've always been taught that the Holy Spirit inspired the writers to write what they did free of any mistakes. I naturally assumed the inspiration of the HS extended to any translations. I mean why make sure the autographs are mistake free and then skip out when the translations are being done? Nobody reads Aramaic anymore and the autographs are lost to time. My feeling is that if the HS really wanted the life of Jesus told perfectly He'd have saved the autographs so we had a perfect source to go to when any question of interpretation arose. Thus all Christianity would be uniform.

Instead, the autographs were destroyed. The translations became a mish-mash of errors and ministrations, and roughly 35,000 different sects of Christianity emerged. Not exactly a stellar record for Christians to be proud of. This is partly why I lost my Christian faith. I came to realize God is not in control of His own faith--frankly He behaves as if He couldn't care less about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Whoever translated the gospel of Matthew, which was originally written in Hebrew, into the Greek and much later into English, are guilty of making many errors, such as riding the donkey colt, and having Matthew saying that Isaiah said that 'virgin' would become pregnant etc, when in fact Matthew was no idiot, he would have known that it was impossible for Jesus to have ridden the 'Jenny' donkey and her colt at the same time, and he also knew that the prophet said that a 'young unmarried woman' would be with child and bear a son.

What makes you think that the author of Matthew, who was not Matthew by the way, did not make a mistake? He was a Greek speaking Jew. He probably relied on the Septuagint for his botched prophesy and the Septuagint does have that error in it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There you go once again, proving to all that you are incapable of comprehending that which you read. Never did I say that 'YOU' called my God a liar.

What I said, was that I listen to you, 'AND' to all those atheists, who condemn as liars, anyone who believes in the one true God or any gods at all for that matter: No wonder you are so confused as to the truths that are recorded in the scriptures, You have to be able to understand was is written there to understand the truths.

Atheists do not tend to falsely accuse others either so either way you were wrong. You do not seem to be able to tell truth tellers from liars.

Tell me, do you believe all of the myths of the Bible?

 

[halbhh]

Once again, there is no evidence of child sacrifice among the Canaanite culture.

While in many lands and times there's all sorts of things we have texts reporting to us a history for which we do not have other evidence past the text....

It's best to be aware that child sacrifice in the area here in question isn't one of those kinds of things where there are only reports in text without any other supporting evidence.

Phoenicia:

Evidence of child sacrifice in Phoenicia (which included Carthage):
Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children | University of Oxford

 

[blü 2]

thank you for your thoughtful reply.
In Sodom it's something special, since ALL the men of that town gathered to commit rape.
To my knowledge this repeated itself only once (in the Book of Judges) and also there: the consequence was obliteration.

These things were negotiable back then ─ you'll recall the rather amusing scene Genesis 18:22-32 where Abe dickers God down from fifty to ten.

But yes, one of the reasons the bible gives for the destruction of S & G is male homosexual relations ─ that it's about being inhospitable is also a factor, and maybe the dominant factor, but I don't think it can be said to replace the homophobia altogether.

The whole thing, like just about all of Genesis, has no historical backing, of course, but it gives cultural insight.

 

[Subduction Zone]

While in many lands and times there's all sorts of things we have texts reporting to us a history for which we do not have other evidence past the text....

It's best to be aware that child sacrifice in the area here in question isn't one of those kinds of things where there are only reports in text without any other supporting evidence.

Phoenicia:

Evidence of child sacrifice in Phoenicia (which included Carthage):
Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children | University of Oxford

Once again with the Carthage claim. Why even mention Carthage. From your own article:

"The city-state of ancient Carthage was a Phoenician colony located in what is now Tunisia."

And in case you did not know Tunisia is in norther Africa. Yes it is a Mediterranean country but nowhere near Israel:

Tunisia - Wikipedia

The article that you linked does not even mention the Middle East. Now that does not mean that they did not sacrifice their children, in fact many scholars think that was a tradition of early Hebrews too.

ANE TODAY - 201712 - Child Sacrifice in Ancient Israel - American Society of Overseas Research (ASOR)

https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/21729/1/The Sacrifice of the Firstbron in the Hebrew Bible.pdf

 

[Subduction Zone]

@halbhh , abusing the rating systems is against the rules here. There was nothing funny or even false in my post. Perhaps you should do a bit of Bible study.

 

[halbhh]

Once again with the Carthage claim. Why even mention Carthage. From your own article:

"The city-state of ancient Carthage was a Phoenician colony located in what is now Tunisia."

And in case you did not know Tunisia is in norther Africa. Yes it is a Mediterranean country but nowhere near Israel:

Tunisia - Wikipedia

The article that you linked does not even mention the Middle East. Now that does not mean that they did not sacrifice their children, in fact many scholars think that was a tradition of early Hebrews too.

I've known where Tunisia is about 40 years, if that helps. And frankly I'd expect most people to know even, since it was the birthplace of the Arab spring.

Try to consider this with a bit more seriousness if you will.

If a Phoenician city (in this instance one in Tunisia) is doing child sacrifices.... then, logically, one can expect the same ships that transmit goods and culture and political power are of course spreading those throughout Phoenicia.

Culture spreads. It's part of why a people is labeled with a name, like Phoenicia: because they share a culture.

Ergo, the very strong likelihood is that of course such would be practice in more than just 1 city. After all, child sacrifice has been common throughout all the world. (Child sacrifice - Wikipedia)

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've known where Tunisia is about 40 years, if that helps. And frankly I'd expect most people to know even, since it was the birthplace of the Arab spring.

Try to consider this with a bit more seriousness if you will.

If a Phoenician city (in this instance one in Tunisia) is doing child sacrifices.... then, logically, one can expect the same ships that transmit goods and culture and political power are of course spreading those throughout Phoenicia.

Ergo, the very strong likelihood is that of course such would be practice in more than just 1 city. After all, child sacrifice has been common throughout all the world.

You should have looked for evidence of child sacrifice in early Israel. The only problem with that is it leads to the conclusion that the Bible was wrong again since the evidence supports the claim that ancient Hebrews were doing it as well. Did the Canaanites? It is quite likely that they did so as well. But since the Hebrews were more than likely guilty of the same crime it is likely that that was the reason that Canaanites were attacked is false.

 

[halbhh]

You should have looked for evidence of child sacrifice in early Israel. The only problem with that is it leads to the conclusion that the Bible was wrong again since the evidence supports the claim that ancient Hebrews were doing it as well. Did the Canaanites? It is quite likely that they did so as well. But since the Hebrews were more than likely guilty of the same crime it is likely that that was the reason that Canaanites were attacked is false.

In the scripture, Israel is instructed not to do as the Canaanites they are replacing have done.

e.g. -- Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

In the scripture Israel only keeps this commandment for a time, and then breaks it.

They begin soon enough to worship the Canaanite idols.

When Israel breaks the command not to sacrifice children to idols -- and has significant child sacrifice then happening -- God through prophets warns them of destruction if they don't turn away from it. They don't turn, and in time that destruction comes on Israel, as warned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In the scripture, Israel is instructed not to do as the Canaanites they are replacing have done.

e.g. -- Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in this way, because they practice for their gods every abomination which the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

In the scripture Israel only keeps this commandment for a time, and then breaks it.

They begin soon enough to worship the Canaanite idols.

When Israel breaks the command not to sacrifice children to idols -- and has significant child sacrifice then happening -- God through prophets warns them of destruction if they don't turn away from it. They don't turn, and in time that destruction comes on Israel, as warned.

That may be your interpretation, but it does not appear to be what actually happened.

 

[joelr]

While in many lands and times there's all sorts of things we have texts reporting to us a history for which we do not have other evidence past the text....

It's best to be aware that child sacrifice in the area here in question isn't one of those kinds of things where there are only reports in text without any other supporting evidence.

Phoenicia:

Evidence of child sacrifice in Phoenicia (which included Carthage):
Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children | University of Oxford

I said Canaanites not Carthaginians?