God's opposition to homosexual behavior. Why?

[BilliardsBall]

I never denied that. I'm arguing against your claim that all gay people are gay because they were abused. I took issue with your citation because you used it in that context, when in reality all it really said was personal taste (which is NOT sexual orientation) is affected by imprinting. Which is fair enough. But even the text itself stressed that it is not evidence that sexual orientation is the same thing and that further studies need to take place in its conclusion.
I am still willing to give you time to bring up relevant studies to back up your claim. I think I'm being more than fair here.

I understand. You want to me to provide relevant studies that:

1. Environment/raising children may be key in determining someone's sexual orientation
2. Being molested as a child may be key in determining later patterns of sexual behavior
3. Homosexuality has something to do with curiosity re: the same sex after a same sex parent is absent or distant

After I provide these studies, would you like studies on 2+3=5 and the sky looks blue?

 

[MansFriend]

Could you elaborate on what you're talking about here?

I went into more detail elsewhere, but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which all of the Torah based religions adhere to in one way or another, are associated with a particular manner of governance. Yahweh is a tribal deity with a patriarchal based governmental society. It's aim is to maximize individual autonomy by laying all of the typical functions of government upon the family structure. This does away with the need for property taxes, income taxes, etc. because there isn't a centralized government that needs to generate revenue to function. Therefore, under Yahweh's system of governance, it is vitally important that the mechanisms by which families are able to function are running in tip-top shape. If the family falls into a disoriented and confused state, then the society's mode of governance also falls into a chaotic state. Homosexuality is very disruptive to this manner of governance.

Homosexuality today isn't a big deal at all because we have a large centralized government that has enslaved all of the citizenry. Family is really becoming less and less important and will continue to be less important the more government takes over every aspect of people's every day lives. Homosexuality goes hand-in-hand with "big government" where everyone is enslaved because it is now about domination. The citizenry becomes more and more dominated as they become more and more dependent upon the central government. Homosexuality is the mode of sexuality for those who favor this. They get free health care to cope with all of the noxious diseases they contract because typically people in this mode of sexuality have several partners or their partners tend to change more frequently than the more patriarchal minded society.

 

[MansFriend]

You are missing my point that we have greater knowledge about human sexuality than they did thousands of years ago, just like we have greater knowledge of every other subject. That is what I am saying. I have no idea where you get the impression that I said homosexuality was unknown to them. Of course it was. It's been a part of all cultures, past and present. What I said is that the Bible really doesn't have much to say about LGBT people. There's a handful of verses out of tens of thousands and they aren't as clear as you like to pretend. And then there are some examples of what would be an LGBT person being presented positively, like the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts. So despite what the bigots like to say - no, the Bible does not definitively declare that being LGBT (that includes being transgender, by the way) or homosexual sex acts are inherently sinful at all times. The Bible doesn't say anything about loving, consensual, monogamous gay relationships. Even if the issue is anal sex, you can express intimacy in other ways. The early Christians would've prized the state of virginity and celibacy above any sort of sexuality - married or not, heterosexual or homosexual - in the first place, so this modern Christian idolatry of hetero marriage, baby making, child rearing and "family values" is a big joke and totally against what Jesus and St. Paul taught.

I have no idea what that last paragraph is supposed to mean. What society is homosexuality "aberrant" and "disruptive" to? What "manner of living" is homosexuality "utterly incompatible with"? What, a homophobic society? Well, yeah. Who cares.

I think it's pretty clear your thinking and my thinking are worlds apart.
Your understanding of the Bible is very different than mine is.
If I had more time I'd make an effort to do some space travel, so to speak, but you don't sound like someone who is searching and I'm not the least bit desperate to attempt to convince someone of something they are disinterested in sincerely exploring.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think it's pretty clear your thinking and my thinking are worlds apart.
Your understanding of the Bible is very different than mine is.
If I had more time I'd make an effort to do some space travel, so to speak, but you don't sound like someone who is searching and I'm not the least bit desperate to attempt to convince someone of something they are disinterested in sincerely exploring.

No, I'm not interested in conversion to your rather bizarre and extremely sexist Mormon fundamentalism, so you would be wasting your time trying that with me.

 

[MansFriend]

No, I'm not interested in conversion to your rather bizarre and extremely sexist Mormon fundamentalism, so you would be wasting your time trying that with me.

Of course you aren't, but you are interested in coaxing those who are in this covenant to contort it into something it was never intended to be.
How about suggesting to Lucifer to stop being a wanna-be loser pretend God by usurping and taking that which never was, and never will be, his.
He can just go ahead and start up from fresh his own religion instead of being like the demonic spirits that hijack that which isn't theirs.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Of course you aren't, but you are interested in coaxing those who are in this covenant to contort it into something it was never intended to be.
How about suggesting to Lucifer to stop being a wanna-be loser pretend God by usurping and taking that which never was, and never will be, his.
He can just go ahead and start up from fresh his own religion instead of being like the demonic spirits that hijack that which isn't theirs.

I'm not interested in what your weird paranoid little anti-government cult in the boonies does. I'm only interested in discussions with sane people.

 

[MansFriend]

I'm quite objective about both sides of this divide.
I'm interested in, and understand, both sides of it.

By your own admission, you are only interested in pushing your personal preferences while being willfully ignorant of the other side's perspective.

I appreciate the compliment that you felt the need to personally denigrate me by impugning my sanity. Coming from you, that's a good indication.

 

[MansFriend]

I'm not interested in what your weird paranoid little anti-government cult in the boonies does. I'm only interested in discussions with sane people.

Oh, by the way, I'm the least bit anti-government.
As I said, there are a variety of approaches to government.
Some enslave the masses and others attempt to liberate the masses.
What one views as enslavement and what one views as liberation is what's up for debate here.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm quite objective about both sides of this divide.
I'm interested in, and understand, both sides of it.

By your own admission, you are only interested in pushing your personal preferences while being willfully ignorant of the other side's perspective.

I appreciate the compliment that you felt the need to personally denigrate me by impugning my sanity. Coming from you, that's a good indication.

I understand your perspective. I just reject it. You oppose homosexuality because you have some patriarchal tribalism system of government in mind where everyone follows strict gender roles and there's no deviation from that. I think that is ludicrous and offensive. I see no reason to treat that viewpoint as acceptable. It sounds like something from a far-right militia cult.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're also not doing yourself any favors by insinuating that I'm in cahoots with Satan. That's not exactly a rational line of thinking.

 

[MansFriend]

I understand your perspective. I just reject it. You oppose homosexuality because you have some patriarchal tribalism system of government in mind where everyone follows strict gender roles and there's no deviation from that. I think that is ludicrous and offensive. I see no reason to treat that viewpoint as acceptable. It sounds like something from a far-right militia cult.

You summed it up so well: "I see no reason...."
You are correct. You are blind to many things.
You also revealed earlier why that is so.
You admit yourself, you have utter disinterest in understanding.
These two conditions go hand-in-hand.
And, you call me the one whose sanity should be questioned?

 

[MansFriend]

You're also not doing yourself any favors by insinuating that I'm in cahoots with Satan. That's not exactly a rational line of thinking.

I don't recall saying you are in cahoots with Satan.
I did imply you are in cahoots with Lucifer, but those are different entities to me.
Lucifer doesn't really realize he is just being used as a pawn by Satan.
He truly and sincerely believes he is the "good guy" until he finds out he was deceived and was wrong.
Then, instead of being humble enough to admit it, he just gets pissed and angry. Then he becomes a Satan.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You summed it up so well: "I see no reason...."
You are correct. You are blind to many things.
You also revealed earlier why that is so.
You admit yourself, you have utter disinterest in understanding.
These two conditions go hand-in-hand.
And, you call me the one whose sanity should be questioned?

Dude, I reject your views. Get over it. It's not like I've never heard of Mormon fundamentalism before.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't recall saying you are in cahoots with Satan.
I did imply you are in cahoots with Lucifer, but those are different entities to me.
Lucifer doesn't really realize he is just being used as a pawn by Satan.
He truly and sincerely believes he is the "good guy" until he finds out he was deceived and was wrong.
Then, instead of being humble enough to admit it, he just gets pissed and angry. Then he becomes a Satan.

That's nice. Lol.

 

[MansFriend]

Dude, I reject your views. Get over it. It's not like I've never heard of Mormon fundamentalism before.

Nothing to get over. I already told you I am not attached to whether or not you believe anything I say. Truth cuts its own path.
Also, I reject the vast majority of what passes for Mormon Fundamentalism.

Think of the FLDS as the dead body of Abel that keeps coming up from the ground because the earth refuses to receive Abel's dead body in burial. This is what the apocrypha says happens with Abel's dead body, and that is what is happening right now as the new foundation for the new world is being laid. Lucifer-Cain is currently having his moments of glory and he thinks he is going to have success in usurping the Kingdom from the Father, but the Father has some hidden surprises for Lucifer-Cain.

Don't get me wrong... Lucifer-Cain will get a dominion, and it will be over the vast majority of humanity and it will be a long-standing major world power for centuries to come, but it won't be the Father's Kingdom. It will be his own kingdom that the Father allows him to have so that all those who reject the Father's Kingdom will have a place to go. What Lucifer-Cain will come to understand and accept is that his bounds are set and limited and those who are true and faithful to the Father's Kingdom are sanctified and untouchable by Lucifer-Cain. The two world-powers will come to terms and coexist.

 

[SomeRandom]

I understand. You want to me to provide relevant studies that:

1. Environment/raising children may be key in determining someone's sexual orientation
2. Being molested as a child may be key in determining later patterns of sexual behavior
3. Homosexuality has something to do with curiosity re: the same sex after a same sex parent is absent or distant

After I provide these studies, would you like studies on 2+3=5 and the sky looks blue?

Artificially saying something is true does not make it true. Try again.
This is a debate, if one wishes to make a specific claim, then one should put their money where their mouth is and provide evidence. It's called debate etiquette.

I agree with number one. 2 ehhh yeah maybe. 3...Lol wut? Freud much? That hypothesis is older than my grandfather. Probably a bit outdated in today's academia, but you know what? Prove me wrong.

If this is so very obviously true then why are you so resistant to put up evidence? It should be easy as ABC to provide studies to back your claims, if they're as true as you seem to make them out to be. So why the rebellion? Are you not that confident or are you afraid of peoples' biases or dissecting any study you cite or????
If they are from a neutral academic respectable source then I'm sure no one will take issue with them. Only focus on what they say specifically.

 

[SomeRandom]

I went into more detail elsewhere, but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which all of the Torah based religions adhere to in one way or another, are associated with a particular manner of governance. Yahweh is a tribal deity with a patriarchal based governmental society. It's aim is to maximize individual autonomy by laying all of the typical functions of government upon the family structure. This does away with the need for property taxes, income taxes, etc. because there isn't a centralized government that needs to generate revenue to function. Therefore, under Yahweh's system of governance, it is vitally important that the mechanisms by which families are able to function are running in tip-top shape. If the family falls into a disoriented and confused state, then the society's mode of governance also falls into a chaotic state. Homosexuality is very disruptive to this manner of governance.

Homosexuality today isn't a big deal at all because we have a large centralized government that has enslaved all of the citizenry. Family is really becoming less and less important and will continue to be less important the more government takes over every aspect of people's every day lives. Homosexuality goes hand-in-hand with "big government" where everyone is enslaved because it is now about domination. The citizenry becomes more and more dominated as they become more and more dependent upon the central government. Homosexuality is the mode of sexuality for those who favor this. They get free health care to cope with all of the noxious diseases they contract because typically people in this mode of sexuality have several partners or their partners tend to change more frequently than the more patriarchal minded society.

So homosexuality is akin to big brother?
Uhh what?
Sexual promiscuity is not synonymous with gay people. There are sex addicts though. I'm not sure on the stats, but I'm willing to bet a lot of heterosexual people fit into that camp.
I think there's treatment for that available.

I'm not sure I can comment on your health care, where I live it's not really done by sexual orientation though. And we're reasonably pro equality for gay people. Well actually most seem more apathetic than supportive but still, SSM did get through finally. So.
And gay people have families. Not all people are so cold as to shun them just for being gay (speaking generally of course. But if you really wanna go through that route of broken families, many so called Christians break apart their own families without any help from anyone. Just saying.) A family is more than mere sexual orientation. If yours can be broken by the existence of gay people then it's not particularly strong to begin with in my view.

If you want to claim an Orwellian nightmare is upon you, I don't know if homosexuality is really the most solid evidence per se.
I don't even know if that's solid enough evidence of a potential Brave New World.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

especially as true science always agrees with the Bible.

The Bible says a rabbit chews its cud, so obviously there are going to be disagreements between "true science" and the Bible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yahweh is a tribal deity

Yeah. And we don't live in a tribal model of society anymore. And Jesus never taught this "me and my own" sort of classic liberal/libertarian sort of thing, but rather communal living and reliance upon each other.

You admit yourself, you have utter disinterest in understanding.

Disinterest describes an state of being impartial, having no stake in the outcome of an issue. A judge is disinterested towards the defendant and plaintiff, and uninterested in what they had for breakfast.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Artificially saying something is true does not make it true. Try again.
This is a debate, if one wishes to make a specific claim, then one should put their money where their mouth is and provide evidence. It's called debate etiquette.

I agree with number one. 2 ehhh yeah maybe. 3...Lol wut? Freud much? That hypothesis is older than my grandfather. Probably a bit outdated in today's academia, but you know what? Prove me wrong.

If this is so very obviously true then why are you so resistant to put up evidence? It should be easy as ABC to provide studies to back your claims, if they're as true as you seem to make them out to be. So why the rebellion? Are you not that confident or are you afraid of peoples' biases or dissecting any study you cite or????
If they are from a neutral academic respectable source then I'm sure no one will take issue with them. Only focus on what they say specifically.

I believe you and I both know that in academia, numerous theories have been proposed to explain the development of homosexuality, but there is so far no universally accepted account of the origins of a homosexual sexual orientation.

However, I can tell you I've heard from a secular psychologist who counseled 300 gay men, 298 of them had either same sex molestation or a broken father relationship or both. That's an over 99% correlation. Since that time, every gay person I've encountered has answered in the affirmative when questioned. My eyes were opened and it changed my response to and ministry to homosexuals. Broken persons!