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God's Trinity
- Thread starter serioja7
- Start date
Shermana
Heretic
It is a spurious doctrine invented in the 2nd century that none of the Disciples or earliest Church Fathers would have had any idea about that involves distorted use and abuse of the grammar of the texts and interpolated verses like 1 John 5:7, and reliant on invented grammar concepts like "Colwell's rule", it is Polytheistic to Orthodox Jews (and rightfully so), and is otherwise an abomination, and in most respects, most Trinitarians use what is actually Modalistic/Sabellian terms to define their belief in what is really just a form of Modalism.
The general concensus of the doctrine is that it is impossible for the human mind to understand, therefore basically dubbing it illogical. It also involves completely rewriting concepts like "Monotheism" and doing away with the idea that the Israelites believed in beings called "gods", and ignoring the anarthrous use of the word "Theos" which means "a god", in both the gospels as well as "Church Father" writings like that of Iraneus and Origen where it is clear that they meant to say "a god" but the Trinitaiian translators render it as "God" as if such grammar does not matter. Without the Trinity, 99% of all so-called "Christian" "churches" would lose their spinal cord and crumble apart. Thus, it is in their vested interest to support this ancient distortion of the scripture. It should also be in the interest of all those against Western so-called "Christianity" to recognize this.
There, explained.
The general concensus of the doctrine is that it is impossible for the human mind to understand, therefore basically dubbing it illogical. It also involves completely rewriting concepts like "Monotheism" and doing away with the idea that the Israelites believed in beings called "gods", and ignoring the anarthrous use of the word "Theos" which means "a god", in both the gospels as well as "Church Father" writings like that of Iraneus and Origen where it is clear that they meant to say "a god" but the Trinitaiian translators render it as "God" as if such grammar does not matter. Without the Trinity, 99% of all so-called "Christian" "churches" would lose their spinal cord and crumble apart. Thus, it is in their vested interest to support this ancient distortion of the scripture. It should also be in the interest of all those against Western so-called "Christianity" to recognize this.
There, explained.
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sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I embrace the Trinity from two theological aspects.
One, it's an expression of community. God's very nature is communal, with love as the "common ground."
Two, it expresses God as both transcendent and immanent, spiritual, as well as physical, universal, as well as particular.
I agree with Shermana in one respect: The details are mostly smoke-filled, coffee-house crap.
One, it's an expression of community. God's very nature is communal, with love as the "common ground."
Two, it expresses God as both transcendent and immanent, spiritual, as well as physical, universal, as well as particular.
I agree with Shermana in one respect: The details are mostly smoke-filled, coffee-house crap.
outhouse
Atheistically
LOL 
yes jews think it perverted their deity
some christians cannot grasp it.
I look at it for the histroy its left behind. Judgement was made to quit bickering over divinity by a roman emporer. a forced judgement was made for duality.
the early church didnt know what to do with polytheism so the trinity was put in place
yes jews think it perverted their deity
some christians cannot grasp it.
I look at it for the histroy its left behind. Judgement was made to quit bickering over divinity by a roman emporer. a forced judgement was made for duality.
the early church didnt know what to do with polytheism so the trinity was put in place
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You keep talking about duality. I don't know what you're talking about there with respect to the Trinity. What do you mean by "duality?"LOL
yes jews think it perverted their deity
some christians cannot grasp it.
I look at it for the histroy its left behind. Judgement was made to quit bickering over divinity by a roman emporer. a forced judgement was made for duality.
the early church didnt know what to do with polytheism so the trinity was put in place
outhouse
Atheistically
read the Nicean creed, you will see what im talking about
it just deals with the father and son as being one in the same substance, it has nothing to do with a ghost
Bob Dixon
>implying
D-MITCH777
Member
Does this help?
Yes: Great!
No: Read Shermana's post.
Although of Christians claim they believe what your picture says, deep down I don't think they do. Most the time when they say God they mean God the Father, and speak of Christ as something separate.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Hmmm...
That's not the way I understand it.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I don't think the concept really needs to be that hard. We can start with the Holy Spirit (this is not a ghost). It is actually the spirit of holiness, or the spirit of God. It is much like the breath of God (spirit and breath come from the same word). So it is part of God.
Jesus is seen as the incarnation of God. It is God, but just in human form. One can think of it like an avatar of God.
Really then, we kind of get into the idea of monism, which is one God, with many different forms.
Jesus is seen as the incarnation of God. It is God, but just in human form. One can think of it like an avatar of God.
Really then, we kind of get into the idea of monism, which is one God, with many different forms.
outhouse
Atheistically
Skwim
Veteran Member
Yeah, it's a clever diagram alright, but, of course, doesn't explain it at all. And while I can go along with Shermana's post, I'm more interested in how trinitarians explain it.
Does this help?
Yes: Great!
No: Read Shermana's post.
outhouse
Atheistically
it should be noted that these people viewed ones concious as spirit.
this spirit element was viewed as gods thoughts
when they went to the ghost in the NT, they evolved the spirit concept to now having a whole different definition. We went from thought to another being.
Shermana
Heretic
How is Jesus as the incarnation of G-d any different than Modalism or what Oneness Pentacostals believe? Why would an Avatar call G-d His Father in the first place? Why would He say "Let me return to you" if He was just an incarnation and not a separate soul? Why would Jesus not know the day or hour if He was an incarnation? Clearly, if he has a separate mind and knowledge base, He's not an incarnation but an entirely separate mind/soul.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
No. What translation are you even using? Or source?
Looking at the Greek in the NT, it says spirit. It is the Holy Spirit in the NT as well. It doesn't change from the OT to the NT.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Why does it have to be different from Modalism? I did say that it was more like Monism: one God many forms. Seems pretty much like Modalism then. And I see no problem with that.
As for an Avatar calling God his Father, because it is a term of endearment. They still would be different from that God.
And why would he want to return to God? Because he was separate from God.
Also, just because one composes the whole, it does not mean it is the whole. God limits God's self all of the time. Why wouldn't God limit an incarnation?
Student of X
Paradigm Shifter
I've been filled with the Holy Spirit and let me tell you, it's something you can't understand until it happens to you. Like water filling a sponge...like heat filling an iron rod white hot. It's one way of experiencing Divinity.
Then there is the way of experiencing Divinity as an 'other'. Many times this is mistaken for "UFO" or "alien" incidents. I've encountered Divinity in this mode as well, and so Jacques Vallee would categorize me as a "UFO contactee". Many mystics throughout history have been.
Then there is the way of ego-death. Uniting with God beyond identity, beyond thought, beyond time & space, beyond the subject/object dichotomy. Unfathomable, until it happens to you. I know because this too has happened to me.
Three basic ways of experiencing Divinity = Trinity.
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Shermana
Heretic
Because the Classical Trinity is vastly different than Modalism, which was labeled as a heresy because it clashed with traditional interpretation. If you say that the Trinity is ultimately modalism, you would be essentially doing a similar sledge hammer blow to the foundation of Western churches' understanding of the concept as my altogether dismissal of the concept. I appreciate you agreeing ultimately that the Trinity concept is in itself just a type of "Modalism", I wish more Trinitarians would agree with your conclusion. It would do a great job in making it an easier target.
Just a term of endearment? How about the fact that the Father was considered to be the actual father himself as the one who conceived with Mary to produce Yashua in the first place? If Jesus is "Different from that god", then that leaves you with two situations: You either agree that Jesus was in fact a different spiritual being as the JWs and other groups believe, that the Logos was a separate being altogether, perhaps even the incarnation of the first-created "angel" and thus "a god", separate altogether from the Father and not His incarnation, or you'd be saying there are two separate Most High gods, which is defacto Polytheism, take your pick.
Well that just basically agrees with my position and shoots down the idea that He was an incarnation, doesn't it?
God limits G-d's self all the time? Feel free to elaborate and provide scriptural examples.