gods vs super aliens

[logician]

In Kubrick's movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" based upon Clarke's monumental novel, super-intelligent aliens more or less "guide" the evolution of mankind. The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".
Could our own evolution progress under the right cricumstances to the point we felt we had "god-like" abilities? Is it possible there are super-intelligent aliens out there right now that had a hand in our evolution, but are hiding in the background?

Any thoughts?

 

[Breathe]

The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".

A god would be created out of nothing, or born from another God or something like that, as opposed to evolution - or in the case of a Supreme Deity, always there or the First Cause?

Is it possible there are super-intelligent aliens out there right now that had a hand in our evolution, but are hiding in the background?

It's possible, but then again, so are mermaids and unicorns and the loch ness monster.

 

[ChristineES]

Star Trek dealt with that in Who Mourns for Adonais. Kirk and crew run into Apollo, who wants them to go back to herding goats. Kirk obviously knew that he was not a god and some alien.

 

[logician]

1. A god would be created out of nothing, or born from another God or something like that, as opposed to evolution - or in the case of a Supreme Deity, always there or the First Cause?

2. It's possible, but then again, so are mermaids and unicorns and the loch ness monster.

1. How can "something" come from "nothing". Matter and energy have always existed according to some cosmological models, so no creator god was needed.

2. That argument can also be applied to gods.

 

[Breathe]

1. How can "something" come from "nothing". Matter and energy have always existed according to some cosmological models, so no creator god was needed.

That is the ultimate question. However, narrowly speaking there are many who say that a Supreme Creator Deity is outside of the boundaries of time and space and thus they are non existent to said being. For a true being to be considered as a SCD in this sense, one would expect it to be the First Cause (so either the only thing that was never formed from energy or matter in any way shape or form, or the first thing from them.

I notice you said "according to some cosmological models". That means some cosmological models also don't agree with it. - you also say "so no creator God was needed" - those are bold words, I trust you can back them up.

2. That argument can also be applied to gods.

:clap Well observed, and in most cases it's probably true. However, that's not what we were talking about, was it?

 

[3.14]

gods wouldn't need to phone home

 

[logician]

:clap Well observed, and in most cases it's probably true. However, that's not what we were talking about, was it?

Actually the main thread question was:

"The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".

IMHO god concepts and super-intelligent aliens may be indistiguishable, in that each could be seen as capable of "performing miracles", and possibly "creating life".

 

[rojse]

A god would be created out of nothing, or born from another God or something like that, as opposed to evolution - or in the case of a Supreme Deity, always there or the First Cause?

Now, how would we know that this super-powerful alien did not always exist, if they did not tell us?

 

[Breathe]

Actually the main thread question was:

"The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".

IMHO god concepts and super-intelligent aliens may be indistiguishable, in that each could be seen as capable of "performing miracles", and possibly "creating life".

It depends on what the concept is. Certainly, many ideas of deities, especially polytheistic ones overlap with aliens. I'm of the belief that Mayan and Egyptian gods were aliens - but when it comes to monotheistic movements they're less likely to be alien origin due to the arguments proposed by them by early followers which have become mainstream - whether or not they are mentioned in scriptures, or even have any form of scripture (e.g., Deism, Pantheism, Panentheism etc), and such concepts such as Hindu Brahman and Bhagvan are harder to consider as aliens without a lot of bending.

Yet something like a magic man in in a sky boat who wields thunder in his staff is much easier to claim as an alien.

 

[Breathe]

Now, how would we know that this super-powerful alien did not always exist, if they did not tell us?

You'd have to take his word.

Then wouldn't it be a god if it always existed?
I understand where you're coming from, although if an alien was created by nothing (except maybe fathered like the polytheistic gods) then it would be easier to consider them as a god as opposed to an alien.

At a guess, aliens would born, reproduce and die, and would have evolved. A god wouldn't have evolved?

 

[BucephalusBB]

Now, how would we know that this super-powerful alien did not always exist, if they did not tell us?

We don't. But somehow we want to see a god as something beyond our understanding. Aliens on the other hand, are mostly seen as creatures that work within our realm with our rules.

And once the media projected aliens as the grey/green bigheaded humanlike creatures, most people can no longer think of them in a different way. Not by default at least.

 

[cardero]

In Kubrick's movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" based upon Clarke's monumental novel, super-intelligent aliens more or less "guide" the evolution of mankind. The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".
Could our own evolution progress under the right cricumstances to the point we felt we had "god-like" abilities? Is it possible there are super-intelligent aliens out there right now that had a hand in our evolution, but are hiding in the background?

Any thoughts?

I'm thinking that this thread would be better served in the paranormal section or I should be presenting my paranormal threads in the religious section with you as a "ghost-poster".

logican writes: "The question here is, how can one distinguish between a "god" and a "super-intelligent alien".

I would have to take a cue from ChristineES and position another StarTrek reference in which Kirk asks the important question "What does God need with a starship?" and then I would quickly reference some scriptures from the Bible to support my point.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I would have to take a cue from ChristineES and position another StarTrek reference in which Kirk asks the important question "What does God need with a starship?" and then I would quickly reference some scriptures from the Bible to support my point.

This depends on your God. And mostly the attributes you gave to God. If you need God only to explain life, death and souls or something, then they could be in need for a ship.

Allpowerfull on the contrair, needs no ship.

Then again, In a popular story here on earth God was in need of a human to do his job. Also useless.

 

[cardero]

This depends on your God. And mostly the attributes you gave to God. If you need God only to explain life, death and souls or something, then they could be in need for a ship.

Allpowerfull on the contrair, needs no ship.

Then again, In a popular story here on earth God was in need of a human to do his job. Also useless.

If we are thinking of the same popular story, this God also required a starship.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/574835-post45.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/579333-post62.html

(but please, don't get me started).

 

[logician]

The question is, of course, how you define your god concept vs how you define a super intelligent alien. Panthesistic god concepts would have no real counterparts to aliens, however, personal, or "entity" gods might.

 

[cardero]

The question is, of course, how you define your god concept vs how you define a super intelligent alien. Panthesistic god concepts would have no real counterparts to aliens, however, personal, or "entity" gods might.

This list has been compiled from my research into the paranormal as well as my understanding with GOD.



“..then you’re probably dealing with alien beings.”

If a being who claims to be God asks you to sacrifice a bovine and do specific (or freaky) things with its innards….

If a being who claims to be God gets you pregnant and sends His only begotten son for you to babysit….

If a being who claims to be God appears before you and says he has chosen you to correct or start a belief movement because He hasn’t the time or patience to deal with everything and everyone…..

If you are between the ages of 4-12 years and you come across the appearance of a "major religious figure" who imparts an important revelation that must be delivered to a religious authority or the world then you are probably dealing with (bored or lazy) alien beings.

If you come across any being who claims to be God and this Being demonstrates amazing feats of power to impress you…….

If a being claiming to be God asks you to kill your son, another human being, a whole nation or yourself……

If a being claiming to be God sends His angels down for the specific purpose of having sex with your daughters…..

If a being claiming to be God offers to give and tell you all the Truth of the Universe but this understanding needs to be translated, interpreted, is incomplete, vague or doled out like "snausages"....

 

[Humanistheart]

The question is, of course, how you define your god concept vs how you define a super intelligent alien.

I would tend to agree. And it also depends on what criteria your basing that definition on. For example, in the bible Elijah's said to be carried off in a chariot of fire. One could argue that this was a space craft, rocketing across the sky. The idea that a god created the world or the universe is only backed by the scriptures in the tradition of that god. This only works if you indeed belief the god to exist, that the scripture is affirmed by said god, and that the god is actually truthful. If an alien claimed to be god almighty and demonstraghted an aswome dsiplay of force or some 'miracle' using his technology it would be the same effect as anything found in ancient scriptures. But it wouldn't make it true. Even if god's exist they could lie to make themselves seem more powerful or better than they are.

So depending on the technology possesed by said aliens I can't think of any real differences that we as humans could perceive between aliens or gods. At least not ones that couldn't creatively be explained away.

 

[zenzero]

Friend logician,

gods vs super aliens

god is a concept to denote *universal energy* and this universal energy includes the energy of all forms and no-forms which will also include any *super-aliens* one may imagine.
Logically the query itself is illogical. [ joking]
Love & rgds

 

[rojse]

You'd have to take his word.

Then wouldn't it be a god if it always existed?
I understand where you're coming from, although if an alien was created by nothing (except maybe fathered like the polytheistic gods) then it would be easier to consider them as a god as opposed to an alien.

At a guess, aliens would born, reproduce and die, and would have evolved. A god wouldn't have evolved?

No, there seemed to be an argument that God is God because he always existed. How do we know this? God told them, and he told the people who wrote the book.

As for the last part, we are talking about far-future aliens here. Who says they even reproduce? Perhaps they might use cloning machines. They might be immortal, or disembodied energy (just like 2010: Odyssey Two - because the thread has already referenced 2001) or something equally outlandish.

 

[rojse]

The question is, of course, how you define your god concept vs how you define a super intelligent alien. Panthesistic god concepts would have no real counterparts to aliens, however, personal, or "entity" gods might.

Since most people seem to believe, and seem to want to believe, in a personal entity who intervenes to help them, I don't see pantheism being a large problem.