GoJ versus GoL

[dfnj]

I believe that there are two fundamental archetypal forces at play in the world. The first one is the God of Judgment (GoJ). GoJ perceives everything in stark binary terms, such as "good" and "evil," "right" and "wrong," and "you are either with us" or "you are against us." This judgmental perspective leads to conflicts, the initiation of wars, and widespread unhappiness. GoJ continually assigns labels to people based on their judgments, and once you're labeled, you're regarded as subhuman, leading to a lack of any moral consideration in how you're treated.

Conversely, there is the God of Love (GoL). GoL embraces us, accepts us, and loves us unconditionally, regardless of our imperfections, failures, and poor choices.

So, the question is: which of these two forces is prevailing? Regrettably, it seems to me that currently, GoJ is the dominant force in the world. I would argue that a significant portion of the population has little interest, desire, or capacity to embrace forgiveness.

I brace myself for all the GoJ comments people have in response to my post. And I look forward to any GoL comments people may have, if any.

 

[Quintessence]

As a polytheist I recognize a great deal more gods than you do, but that notwithstanding? I don't know how I would even begin to properly quantify the present state of human cultures worldwide to answer the question you're asking. Not just because of the complexity of gathering such data at such a vast scale, but because these two ways of thinking are also not mutually exclusive of one another.

 

[PureX]

I believe that there are two fundamental archetypal forces at play in the world. The first one is the God of Judgment (GoJ). GoJ perceives everything in stark binary terms, such as "good" and "evil," "right" and "wrong," and "you are either with us" or "you are against us." This judgmental perspective leads to conflicts, the initiation of wars, and widespread unhappiness. GoJ continually assigns labels to people based on their judgments, and once you're labeled, you're regarded as subhuman, leading to a lack of any moral consideration in how you're treated.

Conversely, there is the God of Love (GoL). GoL embraces us, accepts us, and loves us unconditionally, regardless of our imperfections, failures, and poor choices.

So, the question is: which of these two forces is prevailing? Regrettably, it seems to me that currently, GoJ is the dominant force in the world. I would argue that a significant portion of the population has little interest, desire, or capacity to embrace forgiveness.

I brace myself for all the GoJ comments people have in response to my post. And I look forward to any GoL comments people may have, if any.

The very first story in the Bible talks of mankind's first and most profound 'sin'. And it is the sin of presumed judgment. The sin of presuming unto ourselves the right and ability to judge good and evil in all creation as if we were the creator-gods, ourselves. But we aren't, and we don't possess the wisdom nor the right to pass such judgments. And as a result of this false presumption, we drove ourselves to toil and labor and struggle all our lives at trying to make the world conform to our own selfish ideas of what is "good" and what is "evil" in it. (Mostly based on whatever we think is good for us, or bad for us.) While everything we saw we deemed "fallen short" because it doesn't exist to serve us fully and exclusively, and to our satisfaction. So we've toiled and labored endlessly trying to "fix" the "broken" world, and each other, accordingly.

That was the result of our compulsion to pass judgement as if we were gods. And it is STILL our lot to this day.

Eventually, in that same book of stories, a "savior" comes along and offers us the way out ... the way of love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. And he promises that if we will choose that path, we will be healed and saved from ourselves. But so far few of us have managed to recognize this message and this promise, and to take it to heart. So we are still trying to fix a broken world what was never broken to begin with. It was only we that had fallen, and become broken. Fallen into the trap of unnecessary judgmentalism, and broken in out spirit as a result.

 

[dybmh]

I prefer to consider it in terms of a spectrum. If GoJ is on one end of a spectrum and GoL is on the other end of the spectrum, then towards the middle is are also GoM and GoF, God of Mercy and God of Fairness.

 

[dfnj]

The very first story in the Bible talks of mankind's first and most profound 'sin'. And it is the sin of presumed judgment. The sin of presuming unto ourselves the right and ability to judge good and evil in all creation as if we were the creator-gods, ourselves. But we aren't, and we don't possess the wisdom nor the right to pass such judgments. And as a result of this false presumption, we drove ourselves to toil and labor and struggle all our lives at trying to make the world conform to our own selfish ideas of what is "good" and what is "evil" in it. (Mostly based on whatever we think is good for us, or bad for us.) While everything we saw we deemed "fallen short" because it doesn't exist to serve us fully and exclusively, and to our satisfaction. So we've toiled and labored endlessly trying to "fix" the "broken" world, and each other, accordingly.

That was the result of our compulsion to pass judgement as if we were gods. And it is STILL our lot to this day.

Eventually, in that same book of stories, a "savior" comes along and offers us the way out ... the way of love, and forgiveness, and kindness, and generosity. And he promises that if we will choose that path, we will be healed and saved from ourselves. But so far few of us have managed to recognize this message and this promise, and to take it to heart. So we are still trying to fix a broken world what was never broken to begin with. It was only we that had fallen, and become broken. Fallen into the trap of unnecessary judgmentalism, and broken in out spirit as a result.

I would think man's greatest sin would be pretending to speak for God or to know the mind of God. This is no different if someone was claiming to BE God. I think this would be the height of human hubris. Passing judgment on other people is very close to pretending to be God.

 

[dfnj]

As a polytheist I recognize a great deal more gods than you do, but that notwithstanding? I don't know how I would even begin to properly quantify the present state of human cultures worldwide to answer the question you're asking. Not just because of the complexity of gathering such data at such a vast scale, but because these two ways of thinking are also not mutually exclusive of one another.

How are they NOT mutually exclusive. When you judge someone, you are comparing them to what exactly? People have limitations. A God of Love on the other hand, accepts people exactly the way they are no matter what. You could argue our Omnipotent God of Love is a bit selfish and evil because such a God has the capacity to ease people's suffering but chooses not to do so. I would argue, this is because our omnipotent God of Love is always dropping the ball when it comes to stopping unnecessary evil in favor of His long-term plan. You could go as far to say all evil is necessary evil. But if we admire and value of the God of Love, we would be less judgmental of the people in our universe.

 

[osgart]

The confusion is with the many forms of judgment there are, both good, and bad. Sometimes it's necessary to judge someone before you can help them.

I think you might be referring to GoC. GoC is the God of condemnation. The GoL is a God of sound judgment, and thus capable of Love.

Prejudging is a form of bad judgment.

 

[PureX]

I would think man's greatest sin would be pretending to speak for God or to know the mind of God. This is no different if someone was claiming to BE God. I think this would be the height of human hubris. Passing judgment on other people is very close to pretending to be God.

According to th story, that is pretty much what mankind was doing.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe that there are two fundamental archetypal forces at play in the world. The first one is the God of Judgment (GoJ). GoJ perceives everything in stark binary terms, such as "good" and "evil," "right" and "wrong," and "you are either with us" or "you are against us." This judgmental perspective leads to conflicts, the initiation of wars, and widespread unhappiness. GoJ continually assigns labels to people based on their judgments, and once you're labeled, you're regarded as subhuman, leading to a lack of any moral consideration in how you're treated.

Conversely, there is the God of Love (GoL). GoL embraces us, accepts us, and loves us unconditionally, regardless of our imperfections, failures, and poor choices.

So, the question is: which of these two forces is prevailing? Regrettably, it seems to me that currently, GoJ is the dominant force in the world. I would argue that a significant portion of the population has little interest, desire, or capacity to embrace forgiveness.

I brace myself for all the GoJ comments people have in response to my post. And I look forward to any GoL comments people may have, if any.

" two fundamental archetypal forces at play in the world. The first one is the God of Judgment (GoJ) "
" there is (the second one) the God of Love (GoL). GoL embraces us, accepts us, and loves us unconditionally "

Is the above "one's belief " supported by the Scientific Method or the Religious Method or by No-Method, please, right??

Regards

 

[Link]

I believe that there are two fundamental archetypal forces at play in the world. The first one is the God of Judgment (GoJ). GoJ perceives everything in stark binary terms, such as "good" and "evil," "right" and "wrong," and "you are either with us" or "you are against us." This judgmental perspective leads to conflicts, the initiation of wars, and widespread unhappiness. GoJ continually assigns labels to people based on their judgments, and once you're labeled, you're regarded as subhuman, leading to a lack of any moral consideration in how you're treated.

Conversely, there is the God of Love (GoL). GoL embraces us, accepts us, and loves us unconditionally, regardless of our imperfections, failures, and poor choices.

So, the question is: which of these two forces is prevailing? Regrettably, it seems to me that currently, GoJ is the dominant force in the world. I would argue that a significant portion of the population has little interest, desire, or capacity to embrace forgiveness.

I brace myself for all the GoJ comments people have in response to my post. And I look forward to any GoL comments people may have, if any.

I posted this to someone else:


أَفَنَجْعَلُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ كَالْمُجْرِمِينَ | Shall We treat those who submit [to Us] as [We treat] the guilty? | Al-Qalam : 35
مَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ | What is the matter with you? How do you judge! | Al-Qalam : 36
أَمْ لَكُمْ كِتَابٌ فِيهِ تَدْرُسُونَ | Or do you possess a scripture in which you read | Al-Qalam : 37
إِنَّ لَكُمْ فِيهِ لَمَا تَخَيَّرُونَ | that you shall have in it that which you choose? | Al-Qalam : 38
أَمْ لَكُمْ أَيْمَانٌ عَلَيْنَا بَالِغَةٌ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ ۙ إِنَّ لَكُمْ لَمَا تَحْكُمُونَ | Or do you a pledge binding on Us until the Day of Resurrection, that you shall indeed have what you judge? | Al-Qalam : 39
سَلْهُمْ أَيُّهُمْ بِذَٰلِكَ زَعِيمٌ | Ask them, which of them will aver that! | Al-Qalam : 40


To me the logic here makes sense. If God was going to treat all the same with unconditional, and no punishment nor reward, he would reveal that which you are choosing now to believe (that God will treat all his creation with unconditional love).

But with no proof from God in a book, then it holds no ground. It's just your viewpoint, a limited one, not from the perspective of the absolute knowing perfect judge.

If it was that God would treat all equal, then, he could reveal that. There would be no intimidation in this case. And this where every religion but Islam fails. Every religion does not emphasize on proof while Quran emphasizes on proof and that humans ought to seek proof for what they attribute to God and proof for whoever speaks on behalf of God.

 

[Link]

I would argue that a significant portion of the population has little interest, desire, or capacity to embrace forgiveness.

My experience is that oppressor countries or rich well off countries have people who like the concept of unconditional love. The oppressed do not and you will not find many among them who embrace this. Let's see who's God is real. I would say to know, you can just assert without proof or seek God and rely on God to explain and reveal who he is.

 

[Link]

Another thing is what is love, we can break it down to four aspects:

Relationship
Valuing
Adoration
Emotion



The first aspect is something like a mother and her son. They have a relationship aspect.
The second aspect is seeing positive or negative value in a person's actions or states.
Adoration is about the beauty and greatness in that person.
Emotion is how we feel inside about it.

Depending on the variance of these, there will be different type of love. I would say hate conversely happens.

Neglected of a relationship right
Evaluating but negatively
Despising the ugly nature or vile or disgrace of a person
Emotion inside does not feel good but it's the other side of love.

These are two ways. Usually, love and hate get mixed to some degree, because most people combine good and evil actions, traits, relationships.

What comes down to both of these is they are just insight to the reality. When applied to positive we call it love. When applied to negative we call it hate.

Judgment is both love and hate. True. But if you love all equally, are you loving things according to their true value? And if things get value, can they go below zero (negative value).

I would say positive treasures that are beautiful can not be equated with negative trash that are ugly.

Darkness and light are not the same.

You can add a fifth aspect "attachment" to love. And "detachment" for hate. Or it can be side-effect for love and hate.

 

[PureX]

I think that when we put the GoL ideology into action we nearly always gain positive results. While when we act on the GoJ ideology, we will very often will gain negative results. And we could consider this "scientific evidence" as it is testable and repeatable.

 

[Quintessence]

How are they NOT mutually exclusive.

You don't understand how a human - and especially humanity collectively which is what you are talking about in the opening post - can both make value judgements and also practice acceptance? Really? I have never known a single human being who doesn't practice both of these at various points and in various situations - I'd argue it is impossible for a human to not do both of these types of assessment (judging and accepting).

When you judge someone, you are comparing them to what exactly?

Compare the human to whatever. Compare-contrast is just about the bread and butter of human cognition in general and we do it constantly to various things in various instances.

 

[Link]

I think that when we put the GoL ideology into action we nearly always gain positive results.

Where is the evidence of this?

 

[Link]

While when we act on the GoJ ideology, we will very often will gain negative results.

I think all human rights gained has been gained by protest and resistance. Almost none of it ever given solely by benevolence of those in power. If you asked oppressed who demand such rights in the past, whether there is a hell or not, they surely almost all believe in hell.

 

[Link]

I believe GoL creates apathy towards injustice and pacifies resistance to oppression. I believe GoJ creates more resolve and resolution to be good and a sense of duty to help others.