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Good and Evil - Problem, or Solution?

9-18-1

Active Member
For clarity I should state I reject the Abrahamic god that serves the basis of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - along with their tentacled denominations and related histories of internal conflict(s) - which all contribute to the global conflict (in some capacity) that has been prevalent in the M/E for many, many centuries.

When one is pressed to provide an explanation of how god could be omnipotent and omnipresent yet allow evil to exist, a diligent conscience will be careful to understand and/or at least consider what "evil" actually is. That is to say, what object(s) or states of mind would constitute "evil"? A perceived problem then arises: the problem of "good" and (vs?) "evil", and whence the latter(?) if god really only be the former? And here is where our Abrahamic friends shout: Satan! Such imaginations and subsequent fear of them is the basis for control under these institutions: fear, fear and more fear. (This notion of fear I will address separately in the future.)

However, one could consider this notion: by stripping it of its dogmatically instilled polarizations which constitute the "good" and "evil" and re-framing it as a solution rather than a problem, conflicts are resolved rather than created in a traditional "good" vs. "evil" mindset/framework as adopted by the Abrahamic followers. In other words: that evil exists is not (therefor should not be treated as) a problem, but a necessary solution in order for the good to exist. This draws attention to the yang and yin - one feeding from (and into) the other but working as one Whole: where will to bestow by one is perfectly equal (mutual) to the will to receive by the other, two as One.

There is a third to these two, too, however, that third is the will: one object (either) shared (or unshared) by the two. When the two fix upon this object and equally embrace it among them, then even the three are One - this is (the majesty of) creation. These two polarities being of will to bestow and of will to receive then find physical expression in the image and likeness of (what the Hebrew books of Moses calls) Elohim - which has an image and likeness (phallus and ovum) that is both masculine and feminine being the embodiment of bestow (phallus) and reception (ovum). Therefor what one refers to as "light" and or the phenomena of electromagnetism (in secular terms) inherently contains this characteristic and/or principle within itself: hence even imaginative inventors such as Tesla is said to have stated that everything is the light. This statement is more or less true: everything is light. This is why, in order to create a universe, one must start with the principle of light itself (even if not physically manifest): that is, truth which has no defined form and is only something ever "known" - can the same, then, not be said of what one refers to as god?

However this notion is easily perverted by those who then resolve themselves to consciously playing the role of all evil and "accepting" that only good could later come from it. This is, I argue, a state of mind shared in very high (and powerful) places on the planet: especially regarding different Masonic and/or idol-based cults that convince people of such things to be true - that playing the "bad guy" is just a part of the drama because, fundamentally to these people, there is no god (which may indeed be true, therefor exploited). This is what I call demonology, and I argue plays a great role in the entire god of Abraham pantheon (ultimately: M/E conflict), including Islam as the crown of "belief"-based stupidity and yielding to sexual perversions involving young women. This sexual degeneracy is but a subtle hint of the Edenic mystery of Eve giving the fruit to Adam: that is to say, the instincts of the lower animal nature overcomes the wisdom of the higher human nature. This "fall" is thus perfectly embodied in the life story of the prophet of Islam. The correlations are all too clear, but only to those who do not adopt/adhere to his idol: that of waging war and overcoming the "unbelievers" in jihad - a passion no doubt bred in (from) Judaism with their similarly nomadic lifestyle constantly growing ever unwelcome in the eyes of those who actually had established successful states: something Israel failed to do given the various destructions of its temples.

To put this global conflict into a rhetorical framework would involve essentially a group of people (who began as Canaanites) wandered the desert as nomads envious of surrounding 'states' and their... statelyhood. It is the same kind of envy an unmanly man might have for a manly man (these of course being generally subjective). So the nomads infiltrate and undermine other states from within and essentially take it over as their own. This is essentially how Judaism spread, with Islam being a rather perverted child of it which carries in it all of the same fundamental problems that Judaism has.

These two polarities (of bestowal and reception; male and female) are present within each being despite their outward (or projected inward) physical (psychological) gender: hence how gender dysphoria occurs and is increasingly rampant (it is part of the war being waged against certain nations).

So the problem, if it can be portrayed in that way, is not only a problem, but also a solution: understanding how these two polarities (are meant to) unite as one is the solution. The "problem" is when they are not, and one only need to look at the prophet of Islam to see what happens to a man when he is overcome by sexual perversion in which he sexually objectifies women even upon first sight (hence the hijab: the hallmark symbol of the oppressive nature of Islam regarding women).

And so (this) one can only imagine an existence wherein the 'state' is always headed by a co-regency between a Matriarch (female) and Patriarch (male) who rule as one. What is interesting about this is, this is precisely what the Egyptian Akhunatun attempted to install in Egypt: this king being the historical basis for the mythical Moses. The Jews essentially used the life story of Akhunatun as a precursory model for what we now know as Moses. As such, the "construction of idols" actually begins with the Jews and hasn't stopped ever since. What Moses was/is to the Jews is what Jesus is to the Christians is what Muhammad is to the Muslims.

As one who rejects all of these faiths, owing to their all being inherently idolatrous and based in projections of vicarious messianic interventionalist deliverance out of their own self-inflicted states of oppression: such states the defacto religion 'state' exploits and takes advantage of among its adherents. This is how religion works: make people suffer themselves and adopt a "belief" under which they suffer while telling them it is the solution to their suffering. It is like being sold sugary water as bug spray to keep the bugs away - a problem is being sold as the solution to create a perpetual bind. This is exactly the fundamental deficiency of the Abrahamic faith system(s): authority is the truth in such institutions, rather than truth itself honored as the authority (as is even consisted with the fiat lux: separation of light (truth) from darkness (untruth)). This is captured in the first day of creation for a reason: the light of truth comprehends the darkness of untruth, but the darkness of untruth comprehends not the light of truth. This is another way of stating what was already stated in the gospels which, while much therein contains things which are technically 'true', the claims surrounding the texts and figures involved is highly questionable.

This is the kind of discernment lacking in the herd-mentality "belief"-based way(s) of thinking, for "belief" is the very faculty which is preyed upon by the religious institutions. And herein we circle back to the problem-solution of good and evil: "belief" can never be intrinsically good, because if "belief" is exploited by another who uses this as a form of power *for* evil, how so then can this "belief" be good? If "belief" were removed, so too would those who exploit it. And this is the problem I see humanity is going to fight WW3 over: "belief". These religious institutions are still killing people who do not "believe" as they do: in books like the Torah, the Bible, the Qur'an; in idols such as Moses, Jesus, Muhammad; and in stories like splitting a sea in two, splitting bread in two, or splitting the moon in two. There is a great deal of division sowed by these religious figures: but as with the sugary water, the adherents still "believe" there is only one god (whom they uniquely worship/serve) and they are on the side of "good" while... whoever their enemy is is on the side of "evil". When two sides oppose each other in such a way: it comes to a battle between "us believers" and "those disbelievers" - hence my allusion to the upcoming global conflict.

Let me be the first to say, then: "belief" is not a virtue. It is the very thing being suffered by the adherents of the various religions - and each idolatrous 'state' is designed to function in this way from the start. In other words: the only power these religious institutions *actually* have on this planet is proportional to the degree to which "believing" adherents continue to "believe" the lies that are the bedrock of such institutions.

How far do the Jews/Christians/Muslims or any follower of the god of Abraham really take the problem of good and evil that does not fundamentally collapse into "believer" vs. "unbeliever" - "us" vs. "them"? That is the entire basis of the god of Abraham: division. This division (as manifest in the form of "believer" vs. "unbeliever") has already costed the lives of hundreds of millions and is trending toward it happening again. Why?

Because there is no god of Abraham and humanity is quite capable on its own accord of being this stupid and pathetic - worshiping books and idols instead of evolving and overcoming problems of the past that continue to plague humanity at present. Only a degenerate could imagine war as a means of peace - likewise only such a person could only mistake peace for something on the outside: peace begins from within, and where there is understand and seeing the reality for what it is, there is a peace in mind that conquers (the sum of all) fears, including the models and versions sold by these pathetic religious institutions that exploit others as a business model.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Sooooooooooo this entire book was about what? Are you asking a question because you surely wasn’t giving a strong case concerning your topic?
 

9-18-1

Active Member
Sooooooooooo this entire book was about what? Are you asking a question because you surely wasn’t giving a strong case concerning your topic?

Lol "you surely wasn't".

The question is concerning what good and evil fundamentally reduce into from the perspective of a follower of the god of Abraham: the longstanding "believer" and "unbeliever" rendering the "us" vs. "them" attitude which almost exclusively calls upon the archetypal war between good and evil. As such "belief" is like a fertile soil or culture within which such divisions can arise, ultimately rendering any/all "belief"-based institutions destructive. That means: "belief" is essentially inseparable from evil, for it is the very soil whence evil may grow.

As a crude example, if you can convince an entire nation that there was a god-man that sacrificed himself for the sins of the world, and therefor all are eternally indebted to him, and step-in the place of Jesus (as in the case of Rome: Julius Caesar) and collect/exploit from such people, only to spread further and conquer in the name of this Jesus, "belief" then emerges as part of the problem rather than the solution. This maps precisely onto Islam: it too is "belief"-based and, like Christianity, is a problem being sold as the solution. This is backwards - as many naturally intuit regarding the nature of Islam and it being backwards. They may not be able to put into words how they derive this (if not purely sensed) but I am not one to turn down a challenge - "belief" is not a virtue. It may appear as one - like a shining angel dressed in light - but "belief" need not concern itself with truth or conscience - the ability to ask questions and attain answers leading to growth. In lieu of this, "belief" stagnates and degenerates.
 
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KingTruth

New Member
The thing about God is, he wouldn’t have ultimate power if he wasn’t good. Good is stronger than evil as right is better than wrong. So if he is Good, why hasn’t he eliminated all evil then?

Ponder far and wide.

Evil has enough power to prevent its immediate death and that’s why evil still exists. Evil will only be vanquished after receiving sufficient killer blows.

Now as a human, I think: the wages of sin is death and ALL humans die someday. This means that ALL are evil sinners! Truthful fact. Humanity is the evil that God is killing off. No wonder generations have come and gone and are now forgotten.

Prior to knowing this, it doesn’t change the fact that humans always die. Killing off evil is like cooking a meal; it’s only ready after sometime with the fire and not immediately.
 

9-18-1

Active Member
The thing about God is, he wouldn’t have ultimate power if he wasn’t good. Good is stronger than evil as right is better than wrong. So if he is Good, why hasn’t he eliminated all evil then?

I'm not sold on the assumption that good is stronger than evil: that is like saying yang is stronger than yin. This is precisely what upsets the balance of the knowledge of good and evil and people start dividing things into dualism: good and evil. The point is not that there are two, or one is stronger or weaker than the other, it is that fundamentally they are one. This is why I included the bit about light and darkness - when there is light, darkness can be comprehended. When there is good, evil can be comprehended etc.

Ponder far and wide.

Evil has enough power to prevent its immediate death and that’s why evil still exists. Evil will only be vanquished after receiving sufficient killer blows.

Now as a human, I think: the wages of sin is death and ALL humans die someday. This means that ALL are evil sinners! Truthful fact. Humanity is the evil that God is killing off. No wonder generations have come and gone and are now forgotten.

Well it depends on what one means by sin - I understand sin as dwelling in the emotions too much and neglecting the higher faculty of the mind. When someone acts out of anger, jealousy, envy etc. they are acting based on their emotions, which is what I understand as sin. Only one who has full command over the emotions can really be said to be 'peaceful' which is precisely why Islam is not a religion of actual peace: it uses the same emotional/psychological attachment devices that any idolatrous religion uses. Muslims become offended by anything/everything and are controlled in this way. This is the same kind of method the CIA uses to brainwash people and set them loose on the world.

Prior to knowing this, it doesn’t change the fact that humans always die. Killing off evil is like cooking a meal; it’s only ready after sometime with the fire and not immediately.

I find it fitting that each being is responsible for his/her own actions: it would be especially fitting if one were to die only to discover that the entire god notion is man-made and every act a person undertook in the name of such god, whichever idol they appealed to, they are personally responsible for and must suffer the same they themselves inflicted onto others. This seems like justice to me, but I can't say for certain this is how it works as I am not entirely privy to the most inner workings of creation as it relates to life.
 

Remté

Active Member
For clarity I should state I reject the Abrahamic god that serves the basis of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - along with their tentacled denominations and related histories of internal conflict(s) - which all contribute to the global conflict (in some capacity) that has been prevalent in the M/E for many, many centuries.

When one is pressed to provide an explanation of how god could be omnipotent and omnipresent yet allow evil to exist, a diligent conscience will be careful to understand and/or at least consider what "evil" actually is. That is to say, what object(s) or states of mind would constitute "evil"? A perceived problem then arises: the problem of "good" and (vs?) "evil", and whence the latter(?) if god really only be the former? And here is where our Abrahamic friends shout: Satan! Such imaginations and subsequent fear of them is the basis for control under these institutions: fear, fear and more fear. (This notion of fear I will address separately in the future.)
Someone who believes in Allah should not fear Satan or people, but only Allah. And that fear is love.

So is your point that things shouldn't be categorised simply as good or bad?
 

9-18-1

Active Member
Someone who believes in Allah should not fear Satan or people, but only Allah. And that fear is love.

The object itself doesn't matter - be it Allah or Satan (essentially both are constructed in the image and likeness of man) fear is still the basis of control.

I don't follow your notion of fear being love - this is absurd. Fear is debilitating, love is embracing. Allah has much less to do with love than fear.

The image and likeness of god often takes the form of that which one is deprived of: if one is deprived of love, god is love. If one is deprived of peace, god is a means to peace. If one feels in need to salvation, god is a savior etc. These are all projections, and Muhammad's Allah is no different. Muslims seek peace and export it into heaven because they are themselves deprived of peace. The pathology is: they deprive themselves due to their "belief" in things untrue. The same was/is true for the Jews who imagined their own savior. Muhammad fills this role in Islam as "mercy upon mankind" - a sentiment undoubtedly borrowed from Christianity. In this we find the pieces come together considering the Qur'an was derived from Christian strophic hymns.

So is your point that things shouldn't be categorised simply as good or bad?

When one labels something as objectively "good" or "evil" he/she is creating an internal polarization wholly within themselves. For example, a Muslim may default to the notion that the Jews are evil. This polarization acts as the catalyst for conflict and ultimately becomes the 'bind' over that individual. This is consistent with the Biblical notion that one who eats from the tree of knowledge of good and evil will surely manifest death - as death is the necessary consequence of such a polarization.

This polarization is precisely how people are controlled: create a central figure/idol such as Jesus/Muhammad, imbue that figure with fantastical qualities which prompts adherents to become attached. When someone is attached to something, criticizing that something provokes a reaction. This is how idol worship actually works: people who are easily triggered/offended, especially regarding religious idols. It is by virtue of the fact that Christians/Muslims take offense to criticisms of their idols (up to and including spilling blood) that reveals these are idolatrous institutions that focus not on god but on the religious figures. In this way, Islam is purely based on the sayings/doings of Muhammad and is a companion to Allah despite Muslims claiming Allah has no companions. Islam could not possibly exist without Muhammad.

As such the Muhammadans, as with any "believer" naturally generates these polarizations within themselves which serve as the catalyst for their own suffering. This is why one should not label anything as objectively good or evil: it is extreme and leads to the fundamental problem of "believer" vs. "unbeliever". Christians might think Muslims are evil and vice versa, making a conflict that will result in war/bloodshed. This war/bloodshed (death) is the same result warned against in the Edenic story.

Telling a Christian or Muslim that their god doesn't exist is like telling a child Santa does not exist - they feel betrayed and stupid for having believed it, sometimes to the point of doubling down on their beliefs and insisting they do exist. This plagues all "believers" that can not face such a reality.
 

Remté

Active Member
The object itself doesn't matter - be it Allah or Satan (essentially both are constructed in the image and likeness of man)
If you insist on being vague about characteristics.
fear is still the basis of control.
Sure but why would you only speak of fear if you want to be truthful? Fear is never alone present.
I don't follow your notion of fear being love - this is absurd.
I didn't say "fear is love" I said "that fear is love". What I essentially mean is that it is like love.
Fear is debilitating,
Not necessarily.
Allah has much less to do with love than fear.
You don't know Allah. That makes you a liar for saying so.
The image and likeness of god often takes the form of that which one is deprived of:
On a certain way that is common when it comes to the image. But that is fundamentally, I believe, because there is no image of God and man's mind is incapable of not imagining something it is thinking about. This is not harmful so long as we know the limits of our understanding.
if one is deprived of love, god is love. If one is deprived of peace, god is a means to peace. If one feels in need to salvation, god is a savior etc.
This is a mere surface. Whether people choose to say "love" or "peace" depends mostly on how they have been taught. Like if you read a long article that continually refers to war as conflict you usually begin speaking about the article using the word conflict.
These are all projections, and Muhammad's Allah is no different. Muslims seek peace and export it into heaven because they are themselves deprived of peace.
Really? The devout Muslims I know are very peaceful and at peace.
Muhammad fills this role in Islam as "mercy upon mankind" - a sentiment undoubtedly borrowed from Christianity.
Mercy in as much as he brought the revelation of God.
When one labels something as objectively "good" or "evil" he/she is creating an internal polarization wholly within themselves.
This "problem" does not originate from religion but the human mind. You write such long essays about what is good and what is bad and then you bring up this problem with that same style.
For example, a Muslim may default to the notion that the Jews are evil. This polarization acts as the catalyst for conflict and ultimately becomes the 'bind' over that individual.
Sure but people make similar bindings to themselves about anyone; fat people, doctors, alcoholics, drug addicts, police, government, criminals, Chinese, smokers, chauvinists, black people... Etc.
This polarization is precisely how people are controlled
They can be, but why precisely religion as a problem?
create a central figure/idol such as Jesus/Muhammad, imbue that figure with fantastical qualities which prompts adherents to become attached. When someone is attached to something, criticizing that something provokes a reaction.
Human beings make attachments.. To their parents, siblings, friends, foods, objects, memories, places...... And also distant people they have only heard of. Why demonize such behaviour?
 

9-18-1

Active Member
If you insist on being vague about characteristics.

The characteristics are as many as there are imaginations about such things. They are all projections - innumerable. The Hebrew word 'Satan' literally means 'expression(s) of being bound in an ongoing state'. For example, if someone believes something that is not true, and this belief acts as a bind on them, they are suffering something "Satanic". This is why Satan should not be made into a being or entity - it isn't one.

Sure but why would you only speak of fear if you want to be truthful? Fear is never alone present.

Ask Muhammad - his entire campaign relied on instilling fear in adherents as well as all opposition.

I didn't say "fear is love" I said "that fear is love". What I essentially mean is that it is like love.

Fear is not like love - at all. It would be more appropriate to say hate is like love.

Not necessarily.

It actually is - it disengages certain cognitive processes and defaults a being into a more instinctual "flight or flight" mode that is exploited. This is essentially what Muhammad exploited.

You don't know Allah. That makes you a liar for saying so.

When it is understood that Allah is made into the image and likeness of Muhammad, it is actually the Muslims that don't know Allah. By virtue of the fact that the Qur'an is nowhere near the perfect word of any god, itself being forged from Christian strophic hymns, the entire Islamic handling of Allah is inseparably tied to Muhammad and his own nature. This is why Allah condones (sex) slavery and pedophilia: because Muhammad did. This is the degeneration Muslims typically worship.

On a certain way that is common when it comes to the image. But that is fundamentally, I believe, because there is no image of God and man's mind is incapable of not imagining something it is thinking about. This is not harmful so long as we know the limits of our understanding.

I don't care what anyone "believes" - belief is not a virtue, it is a vice. What one refers to as god is the source of creation, which can (only) be comprehended from the inside out - not the outside in as with books and idols such as the Qur'an and Muhammad.

This is a mere surface. Whether people choose to say "love" or "peace" depends mostly on how they have been taught. Like if you read a long article that continually refers to war as conflict you usually begin speaking about the article using the word conflict.

It is still projection - people project what they suffer and imbue a god as being the deliverer of that.

Really? The devout Muslims I know are very peaceful and at peace.

The peaceful majority whose morals naturally transcend the degeneration of Islam are irrelevant.

Mercy in as much as he brought the revelation of God.

He forged a book and lied to people about receiving revelations. One of his scribes discovered toward the end of his life that Muhammad was making it up as he went, which he was. This scribe told the others and was subsequently killed for it. When Muhammad died, many wanted to leave Islam because it was all based on Muhammad anyways. When attempting to leave Islam, they were killed, and hence the Sunni / Shia split. He brought no revelation - only bloodshed.

This "problem" does not originate from religion but the human mind. You write such long essays about what is good and what is bad and then you bring up this problem with that same style.

Religion is a product of the human mind - projections.

Sure but people make similar bindings to themselves about anyone; fat people, doctors, alcoholics, drug addicts, police, government, criminals, Chinese, smokers, chauvinists, black people... Etc.

Not sure what point you are trying to make - regardless of the polarization type (good/evil, love/hate etc.) a bind is a bind. This is why hatred is a form of idol worship just as well as reverence for an idol. For example, people who "hate" Trump in the US are idol worshipers, along with those who revere him. Either polarization prevents one from seeing things just the way they are, as is the case with any polarization.

They can be, but why precisely religion as a problem?

Religion is all about control: control what people "believe" and/or think, how they feel and act, what they should like/accept, what they should dislike etc. This is all programmed and conditioned from the onset. Religion is designed to work on the minds of adherents in this way. The worshipers (of idols such as Jesus and Muhammad) don't understand this because they are too attached to them.

Human beings make attachments.. To their parents, siblings, friends, foods, objects, memories, places...... And also distant people they have only heard of. Why demonize such behaviour?

I'm not demonizing attachment. Idol worship is a form of attachment that is exploited by religious institutions on purpose. The leaders of the Islamic world (as with the leaders of the Catholic Church) don't themselves "believe" in the books/prophets, but only use these institutions for power. The ignorant "believers" are the ones worshiping the idols being given to them - and herein lies the problem of attachment to religious figures and/or idol worship. There is nothing wrong with having relationships with others, but a relationship with a strictly psychological image "idol" of a man that lived 1400/2000 years ago is idol worship.

If Muslims knew who the real historical Muhammad actually was, what he actually did etc. they would probably commit suicide. The idol of Muhammad that is fixed in the minds of Muhammadans is nothing like the historical Muhammad - quite the opposite. The funny story that Muslims are told regarding switching Jesus out at the last minute aptly applies to Islam: they switched the real Muhammad for a fake one over time such that all of Muhammad's perversions were flipped into virtues. This is precisely the degeneracy of Islam and what Muslims are blind to: by what? Idol worship. This is why Christianity and Islam are fundamentally both idol worship - both adopting this "believer" vs. "unbeliever" attitude and numerous wars. What is funny about all of this is idol worship is forbidden in the ten commandments, which means even an atheist technically follows such a commandments moreso than Christians and Muslims.
 

Remté

Active Member
When it is understood that Allah is made into the image and likeness of Muhammad, it is actually the Muslims that don't know Allah.
Allah and Muhammad are infinities apart. No one thinks they are alike. No one who's a good Muslims that is.
By virtue of the fact that the Qur'an is nowhere near the perfect word of any god, itself being forged from Christian strophic hymns, the entire Islamic handling of Allah is inseparably tied to Muhammad and his own nature.
You don't understand the Quran, that is all.
This is why Allah condones (sex) slavery and pedophilia: because Muhammad did. This is the degeneration Muslims typically worship.
Another one of those things you failed to understand about the Quran...
I don't care what anyone "believes"
Not very convinced.
- belief is not a virtue, it is a vice
Go on then - stop believing. Let us know how it works out.
What one refers to as god is the source of creation, which can (only) be comprehended from the inside out - not the outside in
I quite agree. So neither of us can comprehend the greatness of God.
It is still projection - people project what they suffer and imbue a god as being the deliverer of that.
That's all you can see in your blindness.
He forged a book and lied to people about receiving revelations. One of his scribes discovered toward the end of his life that Muhammad was making it up as he went, which he was.
Dare you name them?
When Muhammad died, many wanted to leave Islam because it was all based on Muhammad anyways. When attempting to leave Islam, they were killed, and hence the Sunni / Shia split. He brought no revelation - only bloodshed.
What's your source for this theory of the split? I've never heard of a different one from the..... Actual one. But I'll look it up if you give me a hint of what to search.
Religion is a product of the human mind - projections.
Projection is such a useless word when used in every paragraph..
Not sure what point you are trying to make - regardless of the polarization type (good/evil, love/hate etc.) a bind is a bind. This is why hatred is a form of idol worship
So you do admit to idol worship!
just as well as reverence for an idol. For example, people who "hate" Trump in the US are idol worshipers, along with those who revere him. Either polarization prevents one from seeing things just the way they are, as is the case with any polarization.
How are things then?
Religion is all about control: control what people "believe" and/or think, how they feel and act, what they should like/accept, what they should dislike etc. This is all programmed and conditioned from the onset.
Called society.
I'm not demonizing attachment. Idol worship is a form of attachment that is exploited by religious institutions on purpose. The leaders of the Islamic world (as with the leaders of the Catholic Church) don't themselves "believe" in the books/prophets, but only use these institutions for power. The ignorant "believers" are the ones worshiping the idols being given to them - and herein lies the problem of attachment to religious figures and/or idol worship. There is nothing wrong with having relationships with others, but a relationship with a strictly psychological image "idol" of a man that lived 1400/2000 years ago is idol worship.
What about hating such a thing as you seem to do?
If Muslims knew who the real historical Muhammad actually was, what he actually did etc. they would probably commit suicide.
The majority of Muslims as I know them are quite aware of how little is known about Muhammad - I don't believe any secrets exposed would stop them from believing and worshipping Allah as Allah is God and Muhammad is a man. He isn't supposed to be worshipped. If some do, that is their sin.
The idol of Muhammad that is fixed in the minds of Muhammadans
How do you define Muhammadans?
is nothing like the historical Muhammad -
Whom you obviously never knew.
quite the opposite. The funny story that Muslims are told regarding switching Jesus out at the last minute aptly applies to Islam: they switched the real Muhammad for a fake one over time such that all of Muhammad's perversions were flipped into virtues. This is precisely the degeneracy of Islam
Even if I did consider this as having happened I don't see what difference it would make. The importance is in that people are good. If a child is raised well by a criminal father and taught to behave virtuously and is well in life never knowing about their father being a criminal - does it diminish the fact that the child is a good person and well?
 

9-18-1

Active Member
Allah and Muhammad are infinities apart. No one thinks they are alike. No one who's a good Muslims that is.

It doesn't matter what they think - Muhammad is more protected in Islam than Allah is, because that is what Muslims are actually attached to. This is, once again, by virtue of the fact that Muhammad made Allah in his own image and likeness.

You don't understand the Quran, that is all.

I don't erroneously imbue the Qur'an as having an authority it actually does not have, if that is what you mean. The Qur'an did not come from any god, and neither did the Torah. All of these books are man-made.

Another one of those things you failed to understand about the Quran...

See above - Muslims fail to understand it is not from any god.

Not very convinced.

Go on then - stop believing. Let us know how it works out

I never believed anything to begin with. Belief is an immediate forfeiture of ones conscience and retards people into tribal mentalities worshiping idols - that is how it worked out for them.

I quite agree. So neither of us can comprehend the greatness of God.

Insofar as one can know themselves.

That's all you can see in your blindness.

I find it ironic whenever a Muhammadan calls another blind - "belief" is blind.

Dare you name them?

Abdullâh Ibn Sâd Ibn Abî Sarh

'To me it has been revealed', when naught has been revealed to him" refers to 'Abdullah Ibn Sâd Ibn Abi Sarh, who used to write for God's messenger. The verse (23:12) that says, "We created man of an extraction of clay" was revealed, and when Muhammad reached the part that says, "... thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14), 'Abdullah said, "So blessed be God the fairest of creators!" in amazement at the details of man's creation. The Prophet said, "Write it down; for thus it has been revealed." 'Abdullah doubted and said, "If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said."

He fled to Mecca and Muhammad later killed him. Muhammad killed everyone that called out his nonsense - that is what psychopath warlords do.

Another:

He converted to Islam before the conquest of Mecca and immigrated to the Prophet(P) [i.e. in Medina]. He used to record the revelation for the Prophet(P) before he apostatized and went back to Mecca. Then he told Quraysh: 'I used to orient Muhammad wherever I willed, he dictated to me "All-Powerful All-Wise" and I suggest "All Knowing All-Wise" so he would say: "Yes, it is all the same."

Muhammad was inventing the sayings as he pleased - hence Allah is made in his image and likeness. Unfortunately, Muslims (unknowingly) worship Muhammad almost to the same degree Christians worship Jesus as their own savior. It is the same savior complex: both are false and find their roots in the Judaic notion of a messiah.

What's your source for this theory of the split? I've never heard of a different one from the..... Actual one. But I'll look it up if you give me a hint of what to search.

It's not difficult to understand: the entirety of Islam was based on Muhammad. He did not even appoint a caliph - neither did he even receive instruction to write the Qur'an down. The decision to write it down in book form was made by Uthman - it is the only reason we even have a written Qur'an. When Muhammad died, many tried to leave Islam because Islam was centered around Muhammad himself. The apostasy was met with bloodshed and a tribal dispute regarding who should lead the caliphate. This war has never stopped - inside of the religion of peace. And Muslims can't see through *their* own blindness due to idol worship and "belief".

Projection is such a useless word when used in every paragraph..

It's all Islam and Muslims do, so naturally it would be a part of every paragraph. They project their own sources of suffering as coming from the outside, they project their own phobia of (criticisms of) Islam outward and imbue everyone else as having it, they project their own qualities (such as abuse of women) into the West even though the West supports the sovereignty of women etc. Islam and projection are like peas and carrots: it is the fundamental pathology of Islam, as it was with Muhammad and his infidelity.

So you do admit to idol worship!

No more than a Muhammadan - I don't even grant that Muhammad was an historical person, so hating him would be just as ludicrous as worshiping him. I therefor take a stance against all forms of idol worship, including of infidel warlord varieties.

How are things then?

Humanity has a disease: it's called Patriarchy. It is when men degrade women into objects of sexual gratification until they become a form of currency. This is how women are treated in Islam and why the hijab exists: sexually degenerated Muhammadans can't help but think of sex when they see a woman. This degeneracy is also found in Muhammad given his pedophilia and coveting of others' women. He manages to break every single one of the ten commandments actually - and this is another reason Islam actually has nothing to do with the god of Abraham even if it did exist. Islam is like the opposite of what the ten commandments entail, which are in stone (for a reason).

Called society

Slave society - Islam and slavery are another peas and carrots.

What about hating such a thing as you seem to do?The majority of Muslims as I know them are quite aware of how little is known about Muhammad - I don't believe any secrets exposed would stop them from believing and worshipping Allah as Allah is God and Muhammad is a man. He isn't supposed to be worshipped. If some do, that is their sin.

Muhammad is an idol - whether or not Muslims are aware of this is irrelevant. All Muslims are idol worshipers, but not all idol worshipers are Muslims, as there is also Jesus, and Moses for the Jews, who wasn't even a Hebrew but an Egyptian. The entire god of Abraham is rooted in falsity from the onset - designed by nomadic stateless wanderers and used to establish themselves. This is why there is really no difference between Jews and Muslims - the Muslim resents the Jew because they see a part of themselves in them, and the resentment is internal. Therefor they have to project it somewhere, and the Jew has been the scapegoat.

How do you define Muhammadans?

Anyone that adopts Muhammad as a model man - one that has taken the shahada, which is like a self-incriminating cosmic indictment against ones own self regarding the false testimony commandment. Muslims haven't even figured out that no testimony of a dead man can possibly be true. Anyone can fabricate a story (ie. make an idol) and make people "believe" it. This is why Muslims are called "believers" - they "believe" stuff. They wear the title as if its some virtue, but really it is a mark of idiocy and stunted development - back into the animal kingdom just as they claim happens to the Jews. The same is true for both: sexual degeneracy leads back to the animal kingdom.

Whom you obviously never knew.

I read just about everything available on him: though I am certainly not dumb enough to actually testify of him. If what is written of him is true, he was very obviously a psychologically ill person who suffered many complexes: one of which was misogyny and sexual degeneration (pedophilia). He was a real piece of work - cutting peoples heads off and having sex with their wives in the pools of blood. This man was sick - which is why I say, if Muslims *actually* knew who this man was, they'd probably commit suicide. He was that sick, and then some.

Even if I did consider this as having happened I don't see what difference it would make. The importance is in that people are good. If a child is raised well by a criminal father and taught to behave virtuously and is well in life never knowing about their father being a criminal - does it diminish the fact that the child is a good person and well?

I know you don't - it's okay, if you don't see how "believing" one of the worlds most psychopathic warlords was actually one of the worlds most exemplary characters is a *problem*, that will always be the obstacle: idol worship, and it is the same with any Muhammadan. Islam will continue to destroy the feminine aspect of creation and subjugate women to the point that they would rather commit suicide (which happened several times in the past) and the men will fight in wars. This is the nomadic nature intrinsic to the Semitic people in general: degrade and devalue women. I know Islam claims to teach the opposite, but Islam always teaches the opposite of what it actually is, because that is how deception works.
 
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