Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I thought women were still barred from the highest council - The Universal House of Justice??
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- Thread starter hexler
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I thought women were still barred from the highest council - The Universal House of Justice??
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hexler
Member
I know. But I don't know why. Nevertheless, you should ask a Baháí woman how she feels in the community and in every day life. Because a woman's sight is different from a man's sight but I see only sovereign women in our community.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
The point being - no matter how "good" you claim for women - It is not true equality.
You cannot claim -
Equality of men and women.
Elimination of prejudice of all kinds.
When in reality, you obviously do not have them.
Also - I've been to many Baha'i Discussion/potlucks. I enjoy them very much.
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s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
So...yours is the argument favoring religious thinking then?
You think that view is shared by most non-fundamentalist Muslims?
That's sorta the point...but do continue...
Perhaps this is the time to shelter Mormons and those revelations from that "Smith guy"for the moment then...
I retain the hope that it may be so, but seeking out any claimed answers of "truth" or "wisdom" from religious texts (no matter how dusty or ancient) purposefully ignore and/or deny any ongoing "wisdoms" or "truths" that have come to light in say, oh I dunno...yesterday?
Why do the heathen rage?
Maybe, just maybe...superstitions and mythologies have run their course as penultimate sources of "wisdom and truth"?
Maybe, there's something more updated to philosophically muse upon?
Let's at least poll the Amish, as they have (at very least) evolved their understandings into the 19th century?
Ongoing count so far...
Zero.
Anyone else?
I humbly submit the Cult of the Grand Hat (my own personal religion, of course). In terms of your criteria;
1) "Modern" religion
I made it up during a drinking session about 10 years back. This is clearly the MOST modern of religions.
2) Equality and Fairness
All lesser beings (ie. not me) are treated in an identical manner. Progress and promotion within the cult is entirely based on competency and demonstration of usefulness...ahem...
3) Promotion of scientific research
Of course. Science is the gateway to efficiency, and what does an exalted leader want more than efficiency?
4) All basic rights are human rights regardless of borders or cultural exceptions
Abso-frigging-lutely. The Cult of the Grand Hat doesn't recognise borders, gender, socio-economic position, or basic grammatical rules. Small clarification...how basic are "basic" rights. I'm thinking education, shelter, food and freedom of speech. Freedom of speech without consequence seems a bit beyond "basic" given that it exists nowhere in the world, so I humbly submit that my policies on this matter are fine and dandy.
5) Treatment of women as thoughtful and respected equals to men
Tough, since it means I need to start thinking of men as thoughtful, but I am happy to adjust my thoughts on this level, and change my general references with regard to people from 'filthy peons' to 'my support cast'.
So...do I pass?
hexler
Member
Informed people do not believe, that there is no wisdom in pagan religions. Why ? Because what we call heathen was once a monotheistic religion. If you look on christian religion or on hindu religion you recognize lots of gods. In catholicism f.e. you have a lots of saints whom are appealed by many (superficial) people, just like gods in other religions.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
No.... native European religions are pretty clearly polytheistic from as far back as can be remembered, and that's a VERY long time.
hexler
Member
Every impulse someone sets, even a Divine impulse, after some time this impulse is destined to decadence. Of course, in the case of religion the origin of the gnawing worm of destruction is the superficial belief of the followers. But let me quote something:
Monotheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...According to Christian tradition, monotheism was the original religion of humanity but was generally lost after the fall of man. This theory was largely abandoned in the 19th century in favour of an evolutionary progression from animism via polytheism to monotheism, but by 1974 this theory was less widely held.[2] Austrian anthropologist Wilhelm Schmidt had postulated an Urmonotheismus, "original" or "primitive monotheism." in the 1910s.[9] It was objected that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam had grown up in opposition to polytheism as had Greek philosophical monotheism.[2] Furthermore, while belief in a "high god" is not universal, it is found in many parts of Africa and numerous other areas of the world.[10]...
Monotheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...According to Christian tradition, monotheism was the original religion of humanity but was generally lost after the fall of man. This theory was largely abandoned in the 19th century in favour of an evolutionary progression from animism via polytheism to monotheism, but by 1974 this theory was less widely held.[2] Austrian anthropologist Wilhelm Schmidt had postulated an Urmonotheismus, "original" or "primitive monotheism." in the 1910s.[9] It was objected that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam had grown up in opposition to polytheism as had Greek philosophical monotheism.[2] Furthermore, while belief in a "high god" is not universal, it is found in many parts of Africa and numerous other areas of the world.[10]...
Uh... that just confirms what I said. Polytheism came first, and belief in a "high god" (i.e., monotheism) is not universal. 'Sides, the presence of a "high god" isn't monotheism; Zeus still fears the Fates, Odin will eventually die.
That's not to say, however, that polytheism is the oldest. I believe that the "oldest" form of what might be described as theistic behavior was a combination of the worship of natural forces (the sun, sky, stars, moon, sea, storms, etc.), with ancestor worship, the degree of which would vary from tribe to tribe. I should note, though, that I'm not an anthropologist.
hexler
Member
Was that a Freudian wrongreading? Did the phrase not say "According to christian tradition monotheism was the original religion..." But everyone perceives what he likes.
I couldn't care less what the Christian tradition believes on the matter; it's not an authority.
Honestly, I was originally going to respond by highlighting that section and explaining that "according to the Christian tradition" is not an indication of actual history. I don't even really follow history as reflected in my own fragmented mythology.
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s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Cool...is there a secret handshake I need to know to gain entry into that most revered pub? Or is it really just about the hat?
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
hexler
Member
Let us go back to the original post, concerning the life of jewish women. How does the present situation of the women in India and neighbouring countries relate to the situation 2000 years ago? As we well can see in hinduistic religion women were protected by law.
Laws of Manu, chapter 3:
55. Women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands, and brothers-in-law, who desire (their own) welfare.
Also in Buddhism women were protected:
FOURTH STEP. RIGHT ACTION
WHAT, now, is Right Action? It is abstaining from killing;
abstaining from stealing; abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse.
There, someone avoids the killing of living beings, and abstains
from it. Without stick or sword, conscientious, full of sympathy, he
is anxious for the welfare of all living beings.
He avoids stealing, and abstains from it; what another person
possesses of goods and chattels in the village or in the wood, that he
does not take away with thievish intent.
He avoids unlawful sexual intercourse, and abstains from it. He
has no intercourse with such persons as are still under the protection
of father, mother, brother, sister or relatives, nor with married
women, nor female convicts, nor, lastly, with betrothed girls.
This is called Right Action.
Now, Right Action, let me tell you, is of two kinds: 1. Abstaining
from killing, from stealing, and from unlawful sexual intercourse-this
is called the "Mundane Right Action, which yields worldly fruits and
brings good results. But the abhorrence of the practice of this
three-fold wrong action, the abstaining, withholding, refraining
therefrom-the mind being holy, being turned away from the world, and
conjoined with the path, the holy path being pursued-: this is called
the "Ultramundane Right Action," which is not of the world, but is
ultramundane, and conjoined with the paths.
Now, in understanding wrong action as wrong, and right action as
right, one practices Right Understanding [1st step]; and in making
efforts to overcome wrong action, and to arouse right action, one
practices Right Effort [6th step]; and in overcoming wrong action
with attentive mind, and dwelling with attentive mind in possession of
right action, one practices Right Attentiveness [7th step]. Hence,
there are three things that accompany and follow upon right action,
namely: right understanding, right effort, and right attentiveness."
When I saw the news, how deplorable the situations of women in India are, immediately I got the idea "these people never accepted the laws of God and arrogantly set up their own law which means "I am the ruler"."
When God created man He gave him the body of an animal but a spirit with all the freedom to develop wherever he wants. If he follows the Divine exhortations he may become an angel, if he denies that he is only the artwork of the Divine creator he postulates: I am the sculpture that sculptured himself.
What an arrogance!
Laws of Manu, chapter 3:
55. Women must be honoured and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands, and brothers-in-law, who desire (their own) welfare.
Also in Buddhism women were protected:
FOURTH STEP. RIGHT ACTION
WHAT, now, is Right Action? It is abstaining from killing;
abstaining from stealing; abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse.
There, someone avoids the killing of living beings, and abstains
from it. Without stick or sword, conscientious, full of sympathy, he
is anxious for the welfare of all living beings.
He avoids stealing, and abstains from it; what another person
possesses of goods and chattels in the village or in the wood, that he
does not take away with thievish intent.
He avoids unlawful sexual intercourse, and abstains from it. He
has no intercourse with such persons as are still under the protection
of father, mother, brother, sister or relatives, nor with married
women, nor female convicts, nor, lastly, with betrothed girls.
This is called Right Action.
Now, Right Action, let me tell you, is of two kinds: 1. Abstaining
from killing, from stealing, and from unlawful sexual intercourse-this
is called the "Mundane Right Action, which yields worldly fruits and
brings good results. But the abhorrence of the practice of this
three-fold wrong action, the abstaining, withholding, refraining
therefrom-the mind being holy, being turned away from the world, and
conjoined with the path, the holy path being pursued-: this is called
the "Ultramundane Right Action," which is not of the world, but is
ultramundane, and conjoined with the paths.
Now, in understanding wrong action as wrong, and right action as
right, one practices Right Understanding [1st step]; and in making
efforts to overcome wrong action, and to arouse right action, one
practices Right Effort [6th step]; and in overcoming wrong action
with attentive mind, and dwelling with attentive mind in possession of
right action, one practices Right Attentiveness [7th step]. Hence,
there are three things that accompany and follow upon right action,
namely: right understanding, right effort, and right attentiveness."
When I saw the news, how deplorable the situations of women in India are, immediately I got the idea "these people never accepted the laws of God and arrogantly set up their own law which means "I am the ruler"."
When God created man He gave him the body of an animal but a spirit with all the freedom to develop wherever he wants. If he follows the Divine exhortations he may become an angel, if he denies that he is only the artwork of the Divine creator he postulates: I am the sculpture that sculptured himself.
What an arrogance!
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