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Gospel of Thomas: "Kingdom is inside of you..."
- Thread starter gnostic
- Start date
The kingdom means "God/Father" without risking blasphemy.
The example of sky and sea implies that it isn't outside, so don't waste your time.
The answer is within us, is pretty straight talking.
If someone doesn't know, then they need to find it within them to feel maximum benefit.
Do you understanding it differently?
blackout
Violet.
"Midst"- in the central part and surrounding.
"The Kingdom (of God) is in the Midst of You"
In and around you.
Many mystics describe ultimate reality in similar or corresponding terms.
blackout
Violet.
Also...
It starts in the central part, and branches out, and up... like a seed to a tree...
It starts in the central part, and expands out, and rises... like leaven to dough...
(analogy)
You INNER Subjective (experience of) reality,
reaches out (beyond 'You') to Objectively Change what surrounds you.
The Kingdom of God is a Subjective (inside) experience of all that is in Your Midst.
(both in and out)
All of what is within and surrounding you equally.
Your entire perception and experience of the "Reality" that both surrounds, and eminates from you.
The reality that is Your Experience of Life.
It is the "Cast" your own Psyche/Spirit/Mind puts on the world.
Your experience/s of Life and Reality, effect how you interact with it,
(it=what surrounds You)
which creates objective change/s in the world around you.
This is the Magic of the Relationship between 'Spirit'/Psyche/'Word' and "World".
The magical link between the Subjective Experience, and the Objective World,
Heightned Awareness of that link, is akin to a "New eyes" experience.
This anyway, is My Own experience of the Kingdom of God In My Midst/In the Midst of Me.
(as explained/described/unpacked in biblical and non-biblical Terms/Vocabulary)
Last edited:
outhouse
Atheistically
probably not
scholars are all over the board on this
Gospel of Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Assigning a date to the Gospel of Thomas is very complex because it is difficult to know precisely to what a date is being assigned. Scholars have proposed a date as early as AD 60 or as late as AD 140, depending upon whether the Gospel of Thomas is identified with the original core of sayings, or with the author's published text, or with the Greek or Coptic texts, or with parallels in other literature.[25]
Valantasis and other scholars argue that it is difficult to date Thomas because, as a collection of logia without a narrative framework, individual sayings could have been added to it gradually over time.[26] (However, Valantasis does date Thomas to 100-110 CE, with some of the material certainly coming from the first stratum which is dated to 30-60 CE
You also have to consider 1/2 the content is known in the cannonical gospels and that could be the early source
And it is also possible that Thomas is a source for the cannonical gospels. Who really knows?
outhouse
Atheistically
no its not that early, and it would have showed up more exactly how the others copied
I made a mistake to, some scholars say thomas cant be connected to the canon.
read the link, it has quite a few different views. its interesting.
thomas is one of my favorites
gnostic
The Lost One
The kingdom means "God/Father" without risking blasphemy.
The example of sky and sea implies that it isn't outside, so don't waste your time.
The answer is within us, is pretty straight talking.
If someone doesn't know, then they need to find it within them to feel maximum benefit.
Do you understanding it differently?
I've heard some Christians say that heaven is "within a person" or in the "state of mind" before. But I am not sure what Thomas' was referring to the "kingdom is outside of you".
Pretty sure the intention of the passage is to say the kingdom is everywhere. The passage is countering the idea that kingdom is in a specific place reserved for (or by) those with limited spiritual awareness.
That the kingdom is outside of you, means everywhere you go, the kingdom is with you (or you are still in the kingdom). IMO, this is the more challenging aspect to understand on the surface, since many are sure that physical sight sees truly.
That the kingdom is inside of you, means (awareness of) Heaven is awareness, or knowledge, of your own Self. I would say from the gnostic perspective, kingdom within is fundamental understanding. It is also most logical that Creator would place reality of existence in a place that could never truly be lost to you, even while ongoing desire may be to project reality (of self) as outside / separate from inner being. Thus the last part of the passage is perhaps most interesting: "if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." Not knowing self as with kingdom, manifests misconception of being without heaven, and yet you are (or have become) that misconception, not changing reality of self / kingdom.
We are sons of God because a spirit of God lives within each of us. Thus the Kingdom is inside of you.
Villager
Active Member
'Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." Lk 17:20-21 NIV
The Pharisees envisaged a political kingdom as in the time of David, though a much greater one than that. They no doubt had the Roman occupation in mind, as an indignity as well as a major irrritant. Jesus had no political or societal ambition as such, but had in mind the personal, internal rule by God that motivated individuals who could change society by example- 'the salt of the earth'. It is interesting that he said that this rule was already present- the Pharisees already knew what they were to do, and resisted it. After the crucifixion, the kingdom of God was able to be fully appropriated because of the motivation provided by that event.
The so-called Gospel of Thomas appears to contain here an attempt to place an emphasis on external motivation, without flat contradiction of the true gospel; or to make legalism (such as ex by the circumcision party) seem more acceptable. It may have in part been inspired by Pharisaic sources, though is a very curious, if not weird jumble of genuine (copied) and garbled sayings of Jesus, along with plainly invented ones.
The Pharisees envisaged a political kingdom as in the time of David, though a much greater one than that. They no doubt had the Roman occupation in mind, as an indignity as well as a major irrritant. Jesus had no political or societal ambition as such, but had in mind the personal, internal rule by God that motivated individuals who could change society by example- 'the salt of the earth'. It is interesting that he said that this rule was already present- the Pharisees already knew what they were to do, and resisted it. After the crucifixion, the kingdom of God was able to be fully appropriated because of the motivation provided by that event.
The so-called Gospel of Thomas appears to contain here an attempt to place an emphasis on external motivation, without flat contradiction of the true gospel; or to make legalism (such as ex by the circumcision party) seem more acceptable. It may have in part been inspired by Pharisaic sources, though is a very curious, if not weird jumble of genuine (copied) and garbled sayings of Jesus, along with plainly invented ones.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Is there really a difference between "inside of you" and "outside of you"?
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
How so?