oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
We've actually got autopoops here, in Kent, England, UK. Yes!
They don't look as smart as that other auto-hero, but if you don't pick up your doggy-doo, you get 'autopooped' with a £100 poopy-ticket.
True. Honest.
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Gospels’ Errors: There is no son of God or Trinity.
- Thread starter Repox
- Start date
They don't look as smart as that other auto-hero, but if you don't pick up your doggy-doo, you get 'autopooped' with a £100 poopy-ticket.
True. Honest.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Witness?
Matthew copied Mark, Quelle, another etc in order to write his gospel. And you think he was a witness?
Luke was a doctor, so a Judean Levite, probably? And he copied everything! Witness?
John didn't even know what happened-when, and just chucked a bunch of anecdotes into his book, 70-80 years after J's crucifixion. Witness?
But yes, Mark may have been a partial witness, and Cephas's memory-cache.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Witness?
Matthew copied Mark, Quelle, another etc in order to write his gospel. And you think he was a witness?
Luke was a doctor, so a Judean Levite, probably? And he copied everything! Witness?
John didn't even know what happened-when, and just chucked a bunch of anecdotes into his book, 70-80 years after J's crucifixion. Witness?
But yes, Mark may have been a partial witness, and Cephas's memory-cache.
Opinion noted
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Fair enough, but if you sat on a jury, and a witness's statement was proved to have been copied from another witness, you would note that as well, I guess.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
DavidFirth, If i may add something to what you said. Which you are right about.
Let's go back at the time of Christ Jesus, We have many people outside of the
12 disciples who followed Jesus also.
It's only human nature that when people are face with certain death, They will give up the lie to save themselves, rather than hold on to the lie.
If you were to ask people, would they be willing to die, just to maintain a lie? Knowing it was just a lie?
How many people do you believe would be willing to do that?
Hardly anyone.
Ok, Now back to all those people who followed Christ Jesus, Either they died just to Maintain a lie or they died for the Truth?
As we have discovered, you would hardly find anyone who would be willing enough to die just to maintain a lie. Knowingly it's a lie.
All those christians that died whether by crucifixion by the Romans or died in the Romans Coliseum by wild animals.
They would not give up the Truth which they held even to the point of death.
So what we have is to say, millions of people who have died for Truth or they died for a lie.
And it is Noted that many Christians had their lives taken in the Romans Coliseum or by crucifixion by the Romans, All because they would not Rican on the Truth they held.
Even disciple Peter was crucified upside down, because he, himself would not Rican on the truth which he held.
And what about disciple John was exiled on the island which is called Patmos.
This being the same John who wrote the book of Revelation.
Not even John would Rican on the truth which he held.
So many people gave their lives, so we to day, can stand on the truth, which they all gave their lives for.
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DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Well, I'll worry about that if/when it happens. I'm not going to play the "What would you do?" game with you. The truth is that none of us knows what we would do without all of the details of each case, each one of them is unique.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Ah...true.
Each gospel has its own collection of reports, incidents and anecdotes. These probably accumulated over time and from various directions, I expect, and they are of great value to me because they build the historical evidence for me.
But I just think that Mark was a partial witness of the four compilers of the story.
If a person has faith about the gospels, that is great. I only tend to argue strongly with HJ researchers about our various findings.
Repox
Truth Seeker
Thanks for the reply. I think opinion should be supported with facts. I have supported my opinions with scriptural evidence. I must admit to having an advantage. I have had revelations about God, heaven, Satan, paradise and God's purpose for the universe. Knowing how most people feel about revelations, especially when they contradict their beliefs, I refrain from r
OT scripture about seeing God refers to God's spiritual body, not his human body (Jesus). Most of my controversial ideas derive from a series of revelations I had a few years ago. I don't discuss them because of ensuing conflict. They do not conform to traditional religious ideas. I have researched what I know, and there is factual support. As an example, I learned from my revelations paradise happened during the dinosaur era. Researching it, the story fits with what science has discovered about the sudden demise of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures. Then, I decided to research my revelations about God being Jesus. I dug into lost, and recently found, gospel manuscripts. It turns out early authors claimed Jesus was a wise or sage man, not then son of God. Why did Jesus movement leaders change the identity of Jesus? Then, doing some Bible research, I find no references for the son of God in the OT. If Jesus was the son of God, why didn't the OT Lord mention it to His chosen people? Anyway, I understand why you hold onto your Christian beliefs, they are very appealing, especially in relationship to salvation. According to Christian theology, if there is no son of God, there is no salvation. It is an important topic.
Here are some comments about Jesus and heaven.
When God came into the world as Jesus His followers rejected him. He spoke about His commandments and about the "kingdom of heaven." Humans really don't approve of God. They keep making up standards for Him, but God refuses to comply.
There is no Christian heaven, Jewish heaven, or any other religious heaven. There is just heaven with God and His angels. There is only one color; it is glittering white light streaming from the two Gods in a sphere. Around the two Gods, there are twelve fluffy white angels resembling cotton balls, and, beyond the two Gods in a sphere, there is bright white light extending in all directions. Whereas, in the universe, there is matter and energy composed of small particles (molecules, atoms and quarks), in heaven, there are brilliant white sparks of holy light. In heaven, physical laws do not apply. Heaven, like God, is eternal with no beginning or ending.
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Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
If you do not accept the NT, that is your problem, not mine. Clear scriptures in the OT shows that God has a son as given to you. Proverbs cannot be refuted.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .
Matthew 16:16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Here in Exodus it is clearly said that if we see God then we die; this means that God can show himself to us so that we see him. Since we die when doing it, he doesn't show himself.Matthew 16:16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Ex 33:17-23, And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in my sight, and I know thee by name. 18And he said, Show me, I pray thee, thy glory. 19 . . . 20And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.
If you reject Proverbs, you show yourself to reject clear scripture:"Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name?"
This cannot be anyone but God! None but God establishes the ends of the earth.
ps 2:
1 Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against Jehovah, and against his anointed, saying , 3 Let us break their bonds asunder, And cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens will laugh: The Lord will have them in derision. 5 Then will he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure: 6 Yet I have set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
So, your claim that God doesn't have a son is contradicted by scripture OT and NT.
Again, I do not care what others believe, I just provided you with what you said you didn't think existed in the OT. If you still hold to your claim, that is fine with me. Sin is forgiven by means of Jesus and baptism into him:
About Messiah, we read:
10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing by repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus, and
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promise? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing by repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus, and
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promise? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing by repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus, and
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promise? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promisex? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promisex? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promisex? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promisex? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promises? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promises? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, there are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promises? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?
Repox
Truth Seeker
You use NT scripture when I have disputed those gospels. They were written 45 to 60 years after Jesus was murdered by men who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus. They made up romantic stories to promote a new religion.
You keep making the same mistake, you take things out of context and then pretend there are different meanings for those verses, different than what the author intended. As an example, In Psalm 1:7 the verse is about the author of the verse claiming himself to be the son. It is obvious if you read the entire chapter. The verse says, "He said to me, "you are my son." It is about the author of the verse. You have not presented one literal interpretation in the OT for the son of God.
As for the verses you have posted about the Messiah, they are about the plight of Israel and as they have suffered for the sins of humankind. Jews are surrogates for humankind, as their plight is manifested, so will they suffer. As for Psalm 2, I already covered this verse with you. Remember, I stated, RE: Psalms 2:6,7. It is “obvious,” it is about the author of the verse, he is the son.. “He said to me, You are my Son, today I have become your Father.” (Psalm 2:7). It would be best if you found other verses. Evidently, you can do nothing but repeat the same verses with "figurative interpretations."
As I have stated, NT gospel scripture is inauthentic, it represents strong biases of Jesus movement leaders, who were not eyewitnesses to Jesus.
There is no verse in the OT where the Lord God says he has a son. You are taking meanings out of context as I have demonstrated. If there is no son of God, there is no Christianity. So be it. Why would God lie to His chosen people by giving them His Commandments and then guide them on their paths with false promises? Why would God lie and then give them Israel as He promised?