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Got a Visit Today by a JW

Abram

Abraham
Super Universe said:
Some call it 'wasser', others 'agua', still others know it as 'water' but is it not the same?

Some religions drip a few drops on the head during baptism while others completely dip your body beneath the water but I ask you, do you think God differentiates between the two?

You think God prefers one religion to another? You think God wants you to perform rituals?

Just have faith in God and choose to sin no more. That's all.
Thats it? Just stop sinning. Oh man, all these years I've spent wasting praying to Jesus every morning and night to clean me of my sinfull ways. "I choose not to sin no more" I hope this works.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
I'm glad you found a light hearted view of my post. Certianly more important that just saying the words is the moral decision to never again commit sin.

And I did not say or intend that you were wasting your time praying to Jesus but I would like to ask "Did you think that was enough?" Prayer without ever deciding to sin no more.

Lets see, if I become a Catholic then I can sin, then on Sundays confess my sins, say some 'hail mary's' and pay a fine and I am absolved to go out and commit the sin again.

Make that moral decision and stick to it.
 

Abram

Abraham
Super Universe said:
I'm glad you found a light hearted view of my post. Certianly more important that just saying the words is the moral decision to never again commit sin.

And I did not say or intend that you were wasting your time praying to Jesus but I would like to ask "Did you think that was enough?" Prayer without ever deciding to sin no more.

Lets see, if I become a Catholic then I can sin, then on Sundays confess my sins, say some 'hail mary's' and pay a fine and I am absolved to go out and commit the sin again.

Make that moral decision and stick to it.
We're dead to sin, we will sin and we can't stop. Got that trait from great grandpa Adam.

You got to give the JW's credit for their commitment.
 

may

Well-Known Member
cardero said:


What it has actually turned out to be is a promotion of their beliefs with a disinterest in my beliefs. It is a close-minded discussion with no consideration about any other beliefs but their own beliefs.

/QUOTE] yes you are right ,it would be a promotion of their beliefs , the aim is to tell others about the established kingdom in the heavens daniel 2;44 and how it will bring peace to the earth , and the bible is a book of prophecy for our day . if as you say they have done their part by pointing to that and invited you to the kingdom hall to learn more about this kingdom inline with bible prophecy . for me, i find that if a person is not interested in finding out more about the kingdom it is best to move on and find the ones who do want to know more. after all that is the reason they go door to door it is to point others to the promises in the bible . so if you have told them that you are happy in your own religion they will move on . but it does not mean that they have cast you off it is just that they are moving on to tell others the goodnews if a person really does want to know more ,Jehovah will nodoubt direct them back in one way or the other ,they are doing the Lords work after all
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. ..matthew 24;14

 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Abram said:
We're dead to sin, we will sin and we can't stop. Got that trait from great grandpa Adam. QUOTE]

Abram: We can stop. It is simply a matter of choice. Nothing forces you to commit adultery, to steal from others, to lie, to harm and destroy. You are given a tiny piece of God called a conscience to help you find the right way but it will become quiet if you ignore it enough.

We blame Satan but that gives him way too much credit. Sin is a lack of moral character. You choose sin for selfish reasons.

What use does God have for a selfish being?

None.

 

robtex

Veteran Member
MOD POST:

I am seeing lot of sarcasm on the thread which isn't a bad thing but I can tell this thread is going to be more tender than most. If I could ask a favor of the posters on this thread. Before you hit the reply button can you please re-read what you typed and if it has personal attacks or attacks the JW religion can you please edit it before hitting reply or not reply with that post.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
May writes: yes you are right ,it would be a promotion of their beliefs , the aim is to tell others about the established kingdom in the heavens.


But does this promotion of beliefs come with the disrespect and inconsideration of other people’s beliefs? Does the hope and promise of Jehovah’s kingdom entail the trampling over of another person’s belief system?



May writes: for me, i find that if a person is not interested in finding out more about the kingdom it is best to move on and find the ones who do want to know more. so if you have told them that you are happy in your own religion they will move on .


I understand that time is short but before you can instill a new belief system into a person you have to disarm the old one? Are JW’s really prepared to go that distance with the homeowner?

I am interested in their beliefs but what am I going to do with all the other beliefs that I have accumulated that have gone unresolved? What aspects of my relationship with GOD can I bring with me into the JW’s understanding?



One of the most exciting and challenging aspects for JW’s to determine in the door to door ministry is what or who they are going to be encountering on the other side of the door. How has the householder interpreted their Bible? Does the householder utilize their Bible in their daily lives? Does the householder’s Bible even resemble the ones that JW’s carry? What do they actually know about the homeowner and how they have acquired their beliefs? I think these are delicate components to consider.
 

may

Well-Known Member
cardero said:
But does this promotion of beliefs come with the disrespect and inconsideration of other people’s beliefs? Does the hope and promise of Jehovah’s kingdom entail the trampling over of another person’s belief system?





I understand that time is short but before you can instill a new belief system into a person you have to disarm the old one? Are JW’s really prepared to go that distance with the homeowner?

I am interested in their beliefs but what am I going to do with all the other beliefs that I have accumulated that have gone unresolved? What aspects of my relationship with GOD can I bring with me into the JW’s understanding?



One of the most exciting and challenging aspects for JW’s to determine in the door to door ministry is what or who they are going to be encountering on the other side of the door. How has the householder interpreted their Bible? Does the householder utilize their Bible in their daily lives? Does the householder’s Bible even resemble the ones that JW’s carry? What do they actually know about the homeowner and how they have acquired their beliefs? I think these are delicate components to consider.
when Jesus sent his early followers out they went out to people who had a belief in God , first the jews then men and women of the nations and they had different belief systems . but after hearing the good news they put those beliefs aside it is the same today , JW are from all diffarent religions of the world they have come out of them . but this only happens if they want to do this . noone becomes a JW if they dont want to . JW only tell others what the bible says, we are not calling round to have a go at them about their religion. we dont go round to the houses to learn about other religions we only go to tell others the good news , we are not there to learn we are there to make disciples if a person wants to
Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. matthew 28;19-20............ but only if they want to be taught. if a person wants to go the whole way and learn more Jehovah will always provide spiritual food
We are living in important times, since the Scriptures promise that ‘in the final part of the days [in which we are living] many peoples will be instructed about Jehovah’s ways.’ (Isaiah 2:2, 3)



 

cardero

Citizen Mod
May writes: when Jesus sent his early followers out they went out to people who had a belief in God , first the jews then men and women of the nations and they had different belief systems . but after hearing the good news they put those beliefs aside it is the same today , JW are from all diffarent religions of the world they have come out of them . but this only happens if they want to do this . noone becomes a JW if they dont want to . JW only tell others what the bible says, we are not calling round to have a go at them about their religion. we dont go round to the houses to learn about other religions we only go to tell others the good news , we are not there to learn we are there to make disciples if a person wants to


May, it almost sounds as if you are presuming that the Jehovah Witness’ have acquired divine Truth. The only thing that I have experienced so far with the Jehovah Witnesses’ is an over abundance of faith, pride and like you mentioned previously, hope. Do I really want to participate in yet another religion that promotes faith and hope or should I put my attention towards the teachings of a GOD that expresses trust and operates on truth? Did not the apostle Peter write to his new church in Thessalonians to “Prove all things and to hold fast which is good”? 1 John 4:1-3 says to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate from God” (Rom 12:2, Gal 6:4). I do not believe that the Witnesses have done a fair assessment of testing my expressions and there seems to be no valid evidence (yet) that they have judicially tried their own. May, I just want to admit that the Witnesses that have been visiting me have been very pleasant. It is not their conduct that comes into question but their knowledge and the accuracy of their understandings. You can probably understand my hesitation because in this day and age people have to be on the alert. In Matthew 24:14, the Bible “warns of false prophets that will rise and give great signs.”
 

jazzalta

Member
cardero said:
. In Matthew 24:14, the Bible “warns of false prophets that will rise and give great signs.”
That would be my concern regarding criticism of JW religion. They are on record as predicting things that haven't come true. Does that not make them false prophets?
 

may

Well-Known Member
cardero said:
May, it almost sounds as if you are presuming that the Jehovah Witness’ have acquired divine Truth. The only thing that I have experienced so far with the Jehovah Witnesses’ is an over abundance of faith, pride and like you mentioned previously, hope. Do I really want to participate in yet another religion that promotes faith and hope or should I put my attention towards the teachings of a GOD that expresses trust and operates on truth? Did not the apostle Peter write to his new church in Thessalonians to “Prove all things and to hold fast which is good”? 1 John 4:1-3 says to “test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate from God” (Rom 12:2, Gal 6:4). I do not believe that the Witnesses have done a fair assessment of testing my expressions and there seems to be no valid evidence (yet) that they have judicially tried their own. May, I just want to admit that the Witnesses that have been visiting me have been very pleasant. It is not their conduct that comes into question but their knowledge and the accuracy of their understandings. You can probably understand my hesitation because in this day and age people have to be on the alert. In Matthew 24:14, the Bible “warns of false prophets that will rise and give great signs.”
tell me, do you think that people who are unlettered and ordinary (acts 4;13) would go from door to door if they did not think they had found the truth, if i did not have the truth there is no way i could go year in and year out from door to door ,it is because we do believe we have found the truth that we do it. it would be easier not to do it, but we do believe we are doing the Lords work ,if we didnt believe it was the truth what would be the point of it all . not sure what you mean by saying that you have only found them to be full of pride , pride in what? if you mean pride in their beliefs then i would think that would be a good thing , faith and hope is all part and parcel of being a christian along with love . and it is only because of love for their neighbour and love for their Godthat they speak about this wonderful hope for the future and yes they do believe it is the truth . Jesus said in matthew 24;14 that a world wide witness work will be going on in the time of the end ,and the bible always comes true ,and it is our belief that we are accomplishing that work on a world wide scale . it is all happening in these last days.
The proud person would be taking the way most beneficial or profitable for him, but he is leaving God out of account ,i think what JW are doing is putting God in the picture and leaving themselves out of the picture , They are bringing to the fore Gods purpose for the earth and promoting that , not promoting themselves, in fact instead of knocking doors they could be doing selfish things to benefit themselves. but they are not . so yes we do believe we have found the truth , and its great to know that we are helping our God to acomplish his purpose . if others see this as a negative then that is their problem not ours .

If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, 32 and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free John 8;32

 

cardero

Citizen Mod
May writes: tell me, do you think that people who are unlettered and ordinary (acts 4;13) would go from door to door if they did not think they had found the truth, if i did not have the truth there is no way i could go year in and year out from door to door ,it is because we do believe we have found the truth that we do it.

it would be easier not to do it, but we do believe we are doing the Lords work ,if we didnt believe it was the truth what would be the point of it all . not sure what you mean by saying that you have only found them to be full of pride , pride in what?


NOTE: Keep in mind these are not accusations or judgments but just my observations.

The individuals that visit with me constantly refer to the organization and the importance of their publications and the emphasis they place on their unified conduct. They seem to forget and disregard that there are other organizations (religious and non-religious) that are doing some of the same things. They also maintain an air of superiority because of their position or association within the organization that tries to make me feel uncomfortable or inferior (because I am not part of their organization or do not yet share their belief in the importance of the Bible) which I am sure is not their intention but this behavior hinders the qualities of humbleness and humility and also detracts from the reasoning process of drawing logical conclusions and completing the process to understanding (for example, since the organization says something is true it is beyond questioning and therefore must be correct).

After learning how many hours were spent in the field going door to door and comparing that to the amount of Bible studies they had actually acquired, I suggested that this time might be better focused on being in places and aiding people who were actually in need. I offered ideas like working in shelters, going to support groups for people who are abused and are abusing themselves. Visiting the elderly and the sick, basically trying to find places where their help could be appreciated and their purpose could be shown by example. They explained that they did offer themselves this way and proceeded to list all the examples of the ways they extended themselves to their fellow brothers and sisters. When I asked them if there were any other people outside of their religion that they could help they explained that this was what the door to door work was for. I let the matter drop.



May writes: if you mean pride in their beliefs then i would think that would be a good thing , faith and hope is all part and parcel of being a christian along with love . and it is only because of love for their neighbour and love for their Godthat they speak about this wonderful hope for the future and yes they do believe it is the truth . Jesus said in matthew 24;14 that a world wide witness work will be going on in the time of the end ,and the bible always comes true ,and it is our belief that we are accomplishing that work on a world wide scale . it is all happening in these last days.


This may just be a case of an organization self-fulfilling a prophecy. In other words, the prophecy is written with the anticipation of an organization eventually capitalizing on it. This kind of prophecy rarely impresses me. As jazzalta has recently brought to my attention (see post #40) this could very well work against an established organization if they are not careful. I also have my reservations of an organzation that professes a Supreme Being's truth about an earthly kingdom but has not entrusted them with the exact time and date when this promise is to be fulfilled.
Indeed one of the first things I tried to impress upon my guests was that faith and hope cannot culminate into truth and if you have the truth, what exactly do you need faith and hope for? I do not think that they appreciated the wisdom of these words.

 

may

Well-Known Member
cardero said:
[ I do not think that they appreciated the wisdom of these words.

maybe they appreciated the wisdom of the bible more
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first

 

cardero

Citizen Mod
may said:
maybe they appreciated the wisdom of the bible more
(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first
John 8:32 ...and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.”
 

may

Well-Known Member
cardero said:
John 8:32 ...and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.”
yes i like this verse it says it all , learning the truth about Jesus and his place in Gods purpose will set us free.
We have been liberated

Knowledge that imperfect human governments will soon be replaced by God’s righteous Kingdom frees us from hopelessness. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:10) yes knowledge about Gods purpose for the earth certainly sets us free . nolonger do i say why? why? why? to the problems that go on in the world . the accurate knowledge of the bible and how Jesus plays a very big part in Gods purpose sets us free. we know why.

 
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