Grappling with Christianity.

[DavidFirth]

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm certainly a man of contradictions. I confuse myself. It might have to do with my Borderline Personality Disorder traits. One of the traits of it is not knowing who you are, as in your values. I often feel confused over what my core values are. I also have an addictive personality. There's a lot of mental health issues factoring in this.

You're humble and your honest. God likes those qualities in a man.

 

[SomeRandom]

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm certainly a man of contradictions. I confuse myself. It might have to do with my Borderline Personality Disorder traits. One of the traits of it is not knowing who you are, as in your values. I often feel confused over what my core values are. I also have an addictive personality. There's a lot of mental health issues factoring in this.

We all have many contradictions within ourselves. Isn't that just humanity?

My own upbringing was quite contradictory (Dharmic beliefs mixed with a Catholic "understanding" of sin. Made for a confusing understanding of morality, since the so called understanding was filtered though an "Eastern lens" and was at best an awful translation.) For context, my family, at least my mother's generation, is sort of a mixture of Catholicism and Hinduism. I find it funny when others point out how unconventional it is, because it's clear from their reaction that it never really occurs to them.
So if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure you would be welcomed with open arms in my family of "interesting" Catholics.

So the ground I stand on, religious/identity/race etc, not exactly a solid one. Nor is my core values entirely "pure" for lack of a better word.

I'm sure God understands this plight.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We all have many contradictions within ourselves. Isn't that just humanity?

My own upbringing was quite contradictory (Dharmic beliefs mixed with a Catholic "understanding" of sin. Made for a confusing understanding of morality, since the so called understanding was filtered though an "Eastern lens" and was at best an awful translation.) For context, my family, at least my mother's generation, is sort of a mixture of Catholicism and Hinduism. I find it funny when others point out how unconventional it is, because it's clear from their reaction that it never really occurs to them.
So if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure you would be welcomed with open arms in my family of "interesting" Catholics.

So the ground I stand on, religious/identity/race etc, not exactly a solid one. Nor is my core values entirely "pure" for lack of a better word.

I'm sure God understands this plight.

Thanks. Haha. My family is all over the place, too. There's a lot of religious and ethnic diversity. I wasn't really raised much of anything. My mom and I both converted to Catholicism...and it was my idea.

Along with that, my life has been full of chaos. Not much stability at all. I'm fighting to find some in my life. I believe this is a step in the right direction. I hope it is.

 

[Flame]

I hope you find where you belong Saint! I know I'm still looking for my place.

 

[Mindmaster]

So I've decided to return to Christianity - or grapple with it once again, as it were. I have to start over with it since It's been years since I was truly devout. I feel like a baby Christian, which is wondrous yet scary. I'm not sure where this road will lead.

I don't know if I will return to the Catholic Church. I do believe that the Sacraments are eternally binding - an unreliable indelible mark on the soul and lean towards the Catholic Church being the one true Church.

However, I do wonder about my chances at finding a home in it by feeling welcomed. I'm a transsexual and that's very misunderstood. I could be committing sacrilege by taking Communion. That's a scary thought. I certmainly don't want to do that. I feel that I can't possibly detransition, either. I'm too far down the road for that. I just can't be a woman, psychologically. So this leaves me in quite the quandary.

I would have to leave behind many other sinful things I've polluted my mind and heart with, as well. That will also be quite the challenge. I will need to become truly born again.

God help me.

Whatever path you take, I hope you find your happy place. While I do no feel Jehovah or Jesus exist, I see other values to being involved with organized religions. For example, I find no problem with Christian morality if you are actually doing as the Bible states. If you are playing by the Christian rules (seeking redemption) then I don't see where being a transsexual or gay is a problem, you did not ask to be what you are. Does this line up with what the church authorities state? No... But, they are not Jesus or God, just men and women. The Bible has plenty of instances of forgiveness, so long as one seeks it, and any argument for the persecution of such individuals is unfounded. The earnest seeking forgiveness bit is the most important part, at least as far as I understand.

Even before my becoming a Satanist (I do not see myself in opposition to Christianity in any way, other than on a logical/historical basis! ), I was pretty perplexed by the intolerance of some humans in our plethora of individuals and concluded that even in the worst of cases god made them, if he exists, so it's his fault. If you are gay or transgendered you did not pick these things per Se, and the events of your life and your biological tendencies lead you there.

It's more concerning to me that you bounce around in various areas, and it leaves me to think that you see these things in a rather syncretic way maybe? I don't know, I'm confused here, but maybe you can expand. Christianity is pretty clear on the fact that all other gods are demons, or something. It seems like these polarities cannot be resolved in a healthy way, hence my concern.

I am sure you will figure it out, but realize it is OK to just be "nothing" where no adequate answer exists.

 

[rocala]

Hi SF, I am sad to read of the turmoil that is your inner life at the moment. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and often feel that if we met, that I would like you very much.

The trans aspect is beyond my experience but I can relate somewhat to the spiritual part of the problem.

Right now you are living on the edge (an expression we permaculture fans use a lot). This is the place where things happen. It is where opposites crash into each other and alliances are formed. It is the dialectic, it is the battlefield. Ultimately it is where just about everything worth having started off.

One day when you have found a better place, and I am sure you will, you may consider your present location in a different light. The place perhaps where the final you, the real you was made.

Good luck in your journey SF.

 

[Jumi]

You've had a challenging life and you've agonized over these issues, I think you are better equipped to understand your core values than many modern people. The fact is that you know that they exist and that they conflict with group values is the cause of your confusion. You're closer than you think to finding the balance with them and one way is to accept that. Others can help by accepting you. It's often good here on RF but it's best if you find others in whatever Church or group you will find yourself in.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Please write me a quick response to this post so I remember tomorrow, please. I got this age thingy going.

Sasquatch.

 

[metis]

Please write me a quick response to this post so I remember tomorrow, please. I got this age thingy going.

Sasquatch.

That works, so thanks!

OK, as brief as I'm going to try and keep this, I still will have to use probably 2 or 3 posts, largely because I have a tendency to hit the wrong button at times, thus wiping out a post. So, please bear with me.

Back in 1964, I fell in love with about the nicest person I have ever met in my life when doing my undergrad work. Cindy, who was and is an Italian Catholic woman, was so absolutely compassionate and fair that I thought I was going with a saint. Even though I was brought up Protestant, I went with her to mass several times and was impressed with the service. I took two Catholic theology classes back to back, was impressed, but not enough to convert. She dropped me after five months, largely because I treated her like a saint and not like a woman.

Two years later, chance brought us back together again, and this time is was very different as we both fell in love with each other. However, there was another woman in my life that I had fallen in love with, and her name was and is "Josie", who also happened to be a very devout Italian Catholic. Just to be clear, I didn't pick these two because they were Catholic or because they were Italian-- it just sorta worked out that way, largely because they had similar personalities, especially when it came to compassion and fairness.

As I was very confused how this was going to work out, Mother Nature decided for me as I accidentally got Josie pregnant. We got married and celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last March, and she's be best wife I could ever have imagined. Anyhow, I had to break up with Cindy, which broke both her and my heart in doing so.

But here's where the "fun" begins.

[continued next post]

 

[metis]

A year and a half ago, I was at 11 o'clock mass with my wife on Palm Sunday at our church near Detroit, and about 10 minutes into the service I felt that Cindy was praying at the same time. I thought this was sort of a weird thought that just popped into my head, so I didn't pay much attention to it. But about 15 minutes later, the same thought hit me like gangbusters, feeling that she was praying at an 11 o'clock mass at a Catholic church near where she lives downriver from Detroit. I had tears in my eyes-- it was so strong and real, but I didn't know how to take it.

When I got home, I Googled her and found out that there's a Catholic church almost walking distance from where she lives, and it has an 11 o'clock service. Going through the website, I saw that her husband was scheduled as a eucharistic minister at that same exact service on Palm Sunday. Coincidence? Maybe.

This kept happening periodically over the next two months, but then we moved to our place up here in the U.P., and it suddenly stopped. Why? I didn't know. Nothing in May. Nothing in June. Nothing in July. Nothing in the first week of August.

But on the second weekend in August, we went to a different Catholic church, and about midway through the service, BAM! it happens again. Whaaaaaa? I looked at my watch, and it was two minutes before 11 as mass at this church started at 10:30 (remember Cindy's church starts at 11:00). At the other church up here whereas nothing happened, its mass started at 9:30, therefore there was no overlap with Cindy's church. Again, this kept happening, but not every Sunday-- maybe about 1/3 of the time.

I couldn't imagine whatever could account for this since there simply is no way that coincidence could ever explain it. ESP? "Spiritual connection"? I never believed in any of that.

But there's more.

[continued & finished next post]

 

[metis]

I have long considered Gandhi to be my main spiritual mentor, and one of his teachings was that if you have reoccurring feelings that you should do something, first evaluate to make certain it's moral, and if it is, do it!

I had a very strong feeling to visit the church that Cindy and I went to mass together 50+ years ago, so I told my wife what I wanted to do in terms of revisiting the campus and going to that church. She knows about Cindy and how much she affected my life that also led to Josie, so she said fine, and I went this last April there and was able to make it in time for the 11:30 mass.

I didn't know what to expect. Nor did I know what my reaction would be being there. Would I get over-emotional? melancholy? neither? No idea.

But not only was the building different (larger and much more cheerful), but the whole atmosphere was different with people talking and in good spirits, with lots of involvement during the service itself. It was so uplifting, and I loved it. It showed me that change is inevitable but often good, which parallels my life with Cindy first and Josie shortly thereafter. As much as I loved and still love Cindy, Josie was and is a better match for me. These two beautiful Catholic Italian women have led me to this juncture in my life. I was right to begin with-- they are saints.

I had been planning leaving my synagogue because of logistics (too long a drive and my night vision is terrible at 72 years of age), so I decided to reconnect with my wife's church, although I never stopped attending there anyway (there's no synagogue near where I live). It's such a warm feeling being there and now being active even though I have not converted back because I don't accept most of the dogma. The teachings of love, compassion, and justice, yes; all the other dogma, no. But I'm comfortable with that and have been getting increasingly involved there, and the priest accepts my situation and feels good about where I'm at. I don't participate in the service, so I use it to listen, learn, and meditate-- and that works for me.

ESP? Maybe. However, now I think it's more of a "spiritual connection" that I have with both Josie and Cindy. But don't ask me to explain it because I have no clue as to why me and how this actually works.

There's more to this, but at least you now get the basic idea of what's happened to me and why.

Weird, eh?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Whatever path you take, I hope you find your happy place. While I do no feel Jehovah or Jesus exist, I see other values to being involved with organized religions. For example, I find no problem with Christian morality if you are actually doing as the Bible states. If you are playing by the Christian rules (seeking redemption) then I don't see where being a transsexual or gay is a problem, you did not ask to be what you are. Does this line up with what the church authorities state? No... But, they are not Jesus or God, just men and women. The Bible has plenty of instances of forgiveness, so long as one seeks it, and any argument for the persecution of such individuals is unfounded. The earnest seeking forgiveness bit is the most important part, at least as far as I understand.

Even before my becoming a Satanist (I do not see myself in opposition to Christianity in any way, other than on a logical/historical basis! ), I was pretty perplexed by the intolerance of some humans in our plethora of individuals and concluded that even in the worst of cases god made them, if he exists, so it's his fault. If you are gay or transgendered you did not pick these things per Se, and the events of your life and your biological tendencies lead you there.

It's more concerning to me that you bounce around in various areas, and it leaves me to think that you see these things in a rather syncretic way maybe? I don't know, I'm confused here, but maybe you can expand. Christianity is pretty clear on the fact that all other gods are demons, or something. It seems like these polarities cannot be resolved in a healthy way, hence my concern.

I am sure you will figure it out, but realize it is OK to just be "nothing" where no adequate answer exists.

I don't know how I feel about the other gods being demons idea. That seems pretty severe and I'm not going to act like I have the knowledge to proclaim that. I'll just say that I don't know. Maybe they're nature spirits or some such.

The polarities in me do need to be resolved. Even my username is a contradiction. Lol. I do know that I've gone too far one way lately and feel sunk into a mire. So I need to pull myself out of that, with God's help. I do desire a close relationship with God. I miss that. It used to make me so happy.

I'm not happy about the things I've done and I feel ashamed of myself. I think that maybe I was gravitating towards religions that I was interpreting as having lax morals to give myself a licence to act any sort of way. For a person with my issues, that's not too healthy. I think I need structure and rules in order to function, I'm discovering. It helps me keep from falling into my usual nihilism.

 

[Milton Platt]

So I've decided to return to Christianity - or grapple with it once again, as it were. I have to start over with it since It's been years since I was truly devout. I feel like a baby Christian, which is wondrous yet scary. I'm not sure where this road will lead.

I don't know if I will return to the Catholic Church. I do believe that the Sacraments are eternally binding - an unreliable indelible mark on the soul and lean towards the Catholic Church being the one true Church.

However, I do wonder about my chances at finding a home in it by feeling welcomed. I'm a transsexual and that's very misunderstood. I could be committing sacrilege by taking Communion. That's a scary thought. I certmainly don't want to do that. I feel that I can't possibly detransition, either. I'm too far down the road for that. I just can't be a woman, psychologically. So this leaves me in quite the quandary.

I would have to leave behind many other sinful things I've polluted my mind and heart with, as well. That will also be quite the challenge. I will need to become truly born again.

God help me.

Why do you wish to do this instead of resort to reason?

 

[Rival]

Why do you wish to do this instead of resort to reason?

What the f*ck?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why do you wish to do this instead of resort to reason?

Faith and reason are complimentary.

 

[Milton Platt]

Faith and reason are complimentary.

Nope. Faith is believing without sufficient evidence. Reason is using available evidence to draw a logical conclusion. Faith at it's essence equals gullibility.

 

[Milton Platt]

What the f*ck?

Isn't it more reasonable to look for available evidence and reason from that? I do not understand your comment.

 

[DavidFirth]

Nope. Faith is believing without sufficient evidence. Reason is using available evidence to draw a logical conclusion. Faith at it's essence equals gullibility.

Wrong. Real faith is based on sufficient evidence. You're confusing faith with blind faith.

You have plenty of faith, too. You have a lot of faith in your atheism because there is no way you can even logically prove no God exists.

 

[Milton Platt]

Wrong. Real faith is based on sufficient evidence. You're confusing faith with blind faith.

You have plenty of faith, too. You have a lot of faith in your atheism because there is no way you can even logically prove no God exists.

Atheism does not require proof or faith that a god does not exist. Theists are claiming one does...atheists are just saying you have not meet a sufficient burden of proof for such a claim. Feel free to do so at any time.

I do not understand the difference between blind faith and faith, since faith does not require evidence. Please elaborate. While you are at it, name something you cannot believe based upon faith alone.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nope. Faith is believing without sufficient evidence. Reason is using available evidence to draw a logical conclusion. Faith at it's essence equals gullibility.

I was saying that faith in God and using reason go together quite fine. I honestly don't care what you have to say. This is my journal and I don't need rude comments on it. Feel free to make your exit.