Guns, Guns, Guns...

[Cooky]

Digressing from guns a moment, if freedom is your goal then we can presume you've been a supporter of gay marriage, bodily autonomy, and cannabis legalization?

Of course I am. Especially the latter... I'm a hippie, bro. I remember the Jesus Christ doses like it was yesterday.

 

[PureX]

Safety isn't my goal. Freedom is.

(I also like the thrill of danger)

What about the safety of others? Or don't their lives matter?

When does "freedom" just become selfishness?

 

[Stevicus]

Would you feel safer living under strict gun control laws?
Or
Do you feel safer armed knowing your neighbor is armed as well?

Why?

I realize I'm likely to get the same responses from the same people, however for myself, as I get older, I'm starting to feel it might be safer with fewer guns about.

Although whilst doing some searching I came across an article talking about a recent increase in gun crime in the UK. If gun crime does/continues to increase, would that change your mind about feeling safe?

I live in an open carry state. I've never been shot, and I feel safe most of the time.

 

[Shaul]

I think the Israeli model is better.

 

[PureX]

I live in an open carry state. I've never been shot, and I feel safe most of the time.

But it's not all about you. What about all those other people who have been shot because some idiot had easy access to guns?

 

[Stevicus]

But it's not all about you. What about all those other people who have been shot because some idiot had easy access to guns?

I'm sorry for those who have been shot, but the question was asking whether people feel safe on an individual basis.

 

[PureX]

I'm sorry for those who have been shot, but the question was asking whether people feel safe on an individual basis.

Obviously, if people felt safe, they wouldn't feel the need for all these guns in the first place! But the more guns there are, and the more idiots get hold of them, the less save we all feel, and the less safe we all are. It's a problem that feeds itself. More guns are not making us feel any safer, nor are they making us actually any safer. Yet the idiots among us just keep buying more and more of them, imagining that more guns will somehow make them safe. It's become the insanity of an addiction.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Considering I'm far more likely to perish from the fast moving thousand pound objects of death we somehow thought were a good idea to use for basic transportation, I'm really not concerned about guns.

The US's firearm death rate (39,773 per year) is actually higher than its motor vehicle traffic death rate (38,659 per year).

FastStats

That being said, the US's rate of motor vehicle fatalities is alarmingly high, so quite a bit is being done to reduce it:

Vision Zero Communities

Since the two causes of death are very similar in terms of magnitude, it would make sense to do as much about firearm deaths as is being done about motor vehicle deaths.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Considering I'm far more likely to perish from the fast moving thousand pound objects of death we somehow thought were a good idea to use for basic transportation, I'm really not concerned about guns.

How do you feel about masks?

 

[Stevicus]

Obviously, if people felt safe, they wouldn't feel the need for all these guns in the first place! But the more guns there are, and the more idiots get hold of them, the less save we all feel, and the less safe we all are. It's a problem that feeds itself. More guns are not making us feel any safer, nor are they making us actually any safer. Yet the idiots among us just keep buying more and more of them, imagining that more guns will somehow make them safe. It's become the insanity of an addiction.

It's not a problem which just appeared overnight. There's a long history, coupled with the history of firearms itself. Our frontier heritage created a mythos of the lone settler in the wilderness needing weapons to fight off whatever dangers he or his family may face. There may be wild animals, bandits, or outlaws to face - without any sheriff or police close enough to handle it.

Since the outlaws had guns, the good people also needed guns to defend themselves - or at least, that became the common perception.

In more modern times, people have become influenced by stories of urban decay, street crime, organized crime, corrupt/incompetent law enforcement agencies, along with general notions that "it's just not safe out there." Movies like Death Wish put in people's heads the notion that the police are pretty much useless and that the only way someone can survive is if they deal with the criminals on their own terms.

Some people have stockpiled entire arsenals because they think there's going to be some major upheaval or zombie apocalypse or something like that.

I don't think it's a matter of the guns themselves, but more a matter of what people think and feel, what they fear, and what have been the major influences in life which shaped their worldview.

What overrides all of this is that firearms exist all over the place. Someone invented gunpowder, and over time, the technology to build and improve these kinds of weapons developed into what we have today. The genie has already left the bottle. Even in places where people are starving and living in destitution, somehow they manage to acquire weapons to fight in civil wars and insurrections - because the world has many willing suppliers.

In other words, the same mindset exists at the highest levels of power, where we're preparing for the worst and believing that there is danger all around.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not a problem which just appeared overnight. There's a long history, coupled with the history of firearms itself. Our frontier heritage created a mythos of the lone settler in the wilderness needing weapons to fight off whatever dangers he or his family may face. There may be wild animals, bandits, or outlaws to face - without any sheriff or police close enough to handle it.

Since the outlaws had guns, the good people also needed guns to defend themselves - or at least, that became the common perception.

I think that's still the perception.

IMO, a lot of the US still sees itself as a "frontier people"... but how do you demonstrate that you're frontier people when you have no frontier? You double down on ideological purity (warped as it may be) and insist on living according to that.

Back in the day, frontiersmen didn't need to do anything to prove that they were frontiersmen; they lived on the frontier, so it was obvious... and because of that, having to check their guns when they came into town wasn't seen as a threat to their identity.

In more modern times, people have become influenced by stories of urban decay, street crime, organized crime, corrupt/incompetent law enforcement agencies, along with general notions that "it's just not safe out there." Movies like Death Wish put in people's heads the notion that the police are pretty much useless and that the only way someone can survive is if they deal with the criminals on their own terms.

Some people have stockpiled entire arsenals because they think there's going to be some major upheaval or zombie apocalypse or something like that.

And when the big crisis finally came, it turned out that what it called for was being considerate and prudent, and taking reasonable steps to safeguard people's health.

Suddenly all the people who stockpiled weapons based on a fantasy that a national crisis would mean they'd be able to kill with impunity were pissed.

 

[PureX]

It's not a problem which just appeared overnight. There's a long history, coupled with the history of firearms itself. Our frontier heritage created a mythos of the lone settler in the wilderness needing weapons to fight off whatever dangers he or his family may face. There may be wild animals, bandits, or outlaws to face - without any sheriff or police close enough to handle it.

Since the outlaws had guns, the good people also needed guns to defend themselves - or at least, that became the common perception.

In more modern times, people have become influenced by stories of urban decay, street crime, organized crime, corrupt/incompetent law enforcement agencies, along with general notions that "it's just not safe out there." Movies like Death Wish put in people's heads the notion that the police are pretty much useless and that the only way someone can survive is if they deal with the criminals on their own terms.

Some people have stockpiled entire arsenals because they think there's going to be some major upheaval or zombie apocalypse or something like that.

I don't think it's a matter of the guns themselves, but more a matter of what people think and feel, what they fear, and what have been the major influences in life which shaped their worldview.

What overrides all of this is that firearms exist all over the place. Someone invented gunpowder, and over time, the technology to build and improve these kinds of weapons developed into what we have today. The genie has already left the bottle. Even in places where people are starving and living in destitution, somehow they manage to acquire weapons to fight in civil wars and insurrections - because the world has many willing suppliers.

In other words, the same mindset exists at the highest levels of power, where we're preparing for the worst and believing that there is danger all around.

Yes, it's an addiction. The more guns we have, the more we think we need, because too many idiots have guns. Yet WE are the idiots that keep buying more and more of them even though the more of them there are, the less safe we become.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Would you feel safer living under strict gun control laws?
Or
Do you feel safer armed knowing your neighbor is armed as well?

Why?

I realize I'm likely to get the same responses from the same people, however for myself, as I get older, I'm starting to feel it might be safer with fewer guns about.

Although whilst doing some searching I came across an article talking about a recent increase in gun crime in the UK. If gun crime does/continues to increase, would that change your mind about feeling safe?

Its such a complicated issue when comparing the two countries. I don't personally feel super unsafe because of the guns and own a gun myself. As a woman living alone having a gun gives me some sense of security. Though I know the statistics. But the underlying cause of crime is economics. I think the US is sooooo engrained in gun culture that there will never be a UK solution to gun control here. Its our 2nd amendment. Not saying any of our rights are more important than the others but if we were making a list and making gun ownership be the SECOND thing you write down means its pretty high up there.

So I voted other because to make America safer would be economic reform rather than gun reform. If our federal government woke up after a solid night of smoking crack and decided to ban all guns immediately half of our population would probably incite violence that would make WWII look like a schoolhouse squabble.

 

[PureX]

The U.S. doesn't need or want a "U.K. solution to gun control". It's far too late for that, now, anyway. But we do need to get some control of all these guns and gun violence, and we already have a very good model for doing that. And that's the system we use to control motor vehicle ownership and use. And that's how we should be going about it.

But first, we have to get past the INSANITY that currently involves gun ownership and use at the moment. We're like a bunch of drunks who think another drink will somehow cure us of our excessive drinking. And this insanity HAS TO STOP.

 

[Twilight Hue]

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The U.S. doesn't need or want a "U.K. solution to gun control".

The US is ~328 million people. It doesn't have one unified opinion on any issue, including what sort of gun laws it wants for itself.

 

[PureX]

The US is ~328 million people. It doesn't have one unified opinion on any issue, including what sort of gun laws it wants for itself.

We aren't going to be able to discuss all 328 million opinions on the subject, though. So I think it might be reasonable in this instance to select the most commonly held.