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Guns- Your Thoughts

Fat Old Sun

Active Member
Druidus said:
I've never used a gun. I doubt I ever will. But that's besides the point. Three years of martial arts, and I can hold my own against people who are larger than me. No problem, take it from me. Judo is especially useful as a method of defeating those who are larger than you. ;) Seriously, think about it, where are these criminals going to get guns, if there happen to be no guns available to the public? Sure, they could probably get one somehow, but's it a hell of a lot harder, and more expensive. Most criminals aren't professional enough to do that. Most muggings/robberies are done by amateurs who bought a gun exactly for that purpose. It's harder to mug if you have no gun. Simple as that. I advocate, perhaps, a stun gun, that shoots those electrical "doo-hickeys", which would create a current of sufficient voltage to render the person unconscious. No fuss, no muss. And you don't have to use a gun, or rub the blood out of the carpet. ;)
There is always someone who can take you down. Take it from me, spending much of my youth in some of Detroit's worst neighborhoods made a few things very clear.

Never assume that you are such a bad a$$ that you can take anybody.

A 3/4" piece of steel pipe and a brief scanvenger hunt in almost anyone's garage will give you all you need to fire a 12 ga shotgun shell. Zip guns are cheap and easy to make.

I'm a lot harder to mug when I have a gun.
 

½ Sane

"I'm a mess"
At a very young age I was allowed to go on hunting trips with my dad and other relatives. They taught me a great respect for firearms. I think I owned my first .22 at the age of 13. I moved up to shotguns and higher powered rifles as I grew older.

After we moved from the farm to Orlando my dad gave all of his guns away. Years went by before I bought my first pistol The Colt MK IV. I’d go to the gun range every chance I got to shoot it. I had custom work done on it and know it like the back of my hand.

A few more years went by and I asked my dad if he wanted to go to the range with me. We both took turns at targets and after his first clip the old guy was shooting better then I was. He surprised me with a 7 round rapid fire. I guess once it’s in your blood you never lose the touch.

I hope I never have to use any of them in self defense but if it came down to it I would not hesitate and the two shot rule would apply. I keep the gun and clip separate and the clips loaded with Glazer Safety Slugs. It’s a +P round designed to do one thing and one thing only. Incapacitate.
 

Quoth The Raven

Half Arsed Muse
Druidus said:
I've never used a gun. I doubt I ever will. But that's besides the point. Three years of martial arts, and I can hold my own against people who are larger than me. No problem, take it from me. Judo is especially useful as a method of defeating those who are larger than you. ;) Seriously, think about it, where are these criminals going to get guns, if there happen to be no guns available to the public? Sure, they could probably get one somehow, but's it a hell of a lot harder, and more expensive. Most criminals aren't professional enough to do that. Most muggings/robberies are done by amateurs who bought a gun exactly for that purpose. It's harder to mug if you have no gun. Simple as that. I advocate, perhaps, a stun gun, that shoots those electrical "doo-hickeys", which would create a current of sufficient voltage to render the person unconscious. No fuss, no muss. And you don't have to use a gun, or rub the blood out of the carpet. ;)
Where the hell do they get the heroin, that we can't just pop into the milkbar and buy?
And with all due respect to your 3 years of martial arts, I know a 4ft tall 85 year old Japanese man that could kick your arse in 3 seconds flat. But that is beside the point. Many people have no martial arts training, or just enough to be overconfident that they can hold their own against all comers.
By the way, my other half - who taught martial arts for many years - said,'It's great that you've stuck at it for three years, but you still can't block a bullet.'
 

kreeden

Virus of the Mind
Fat Old Sun said:
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns have.
:biglaugh: Sorry , that really isn't funny . But it is a good point . { and being as morbid as I am , I can't stop laughing }

Guns are just a tool . And like any tool , can be misused .
 

anders

Well-Known Member
michel said:
Hi Dr. Nosophorus,

This is a difficult one for me; I live in the U.K where guns are 'frowned upon'. Here even the police are very reluctant to carry guns; of course, lately, because of the threat of terrorism the 'Armed response units' have been greatly increased. It has always been a policy here that to relax the attitude of 'no guns' would bring about more use of weapons in burglaries, fights, and generally any acts of agression.

Whilst I respect your interest in guns, here, you would only be allowed to keep them if the firing mechanisms were disabled. True, we have problems with children taking knives into schools; the fear is that they would be replaced by guns if owning them were to be legalized.

It is difficult to discuss a subject such as this one when we don't live in the same country. I cannot see guns being 'legalized' in the U.K; it is just a matter of our culture.:)
Pretty much the same situation as in Sweden, which makes our percentage of deaths by shooting w-a-y less than in the USofA. Any burglars etc. will not expect to be facing firearms, and so they won't "have" to carry firearms themselves (which would be costly and difficult, as acquiring and owning firearms is heavily controlled and regulated). Besides, meeting burglars, robbers or the like are not events that I regard as possibilities. Only one (1) person of my acquaintance has during my 61 years of life ever encountered such a thing, and that was in Stockholm, not here in the but 2nd largest town of Sweden.
 
I disagree completely with the use of guns as a means of defence. In my opinion guns are one of those inventions that should never have been..well...invented. Unfortunately, the world has taken to guns so much that the chances of them ever disappearing is probably not at all.
 

Dr. Nosophoros

Active Member
I disagree completely with the use of guns as a means of defence. In my opinion guns are one of those inventions that should never have been..well...invented. Unfortunately, the world has taken to guns so much that the chances of them ever disappearing is probably not at all.
The same could have been said of the first rock, club, knife, spear, sword, bow and arrow, etc. It is in our nature to be brutal but we also have the capacity to be kind, it's not the weapon, it's person that uses them.

More people are killed with other instuments, knives, hands, feet, basball bats, etc. every year than by guns.

Drinking and driving has consistently killed thousands more per year in the U.S. than has gun crime, not to mention injuries. Maybe the car or alcohol should not have been invented- or is it the individual that drinks and get's behind the wheel? Those devices are also used responsibly by the majority who use them legally.
 

Fluffy

A fool
More people are killed with other instuments, knives, hands, feet, basball bats, etc. every year than by guns.

Drinking and driving has consistently killed thousands more per year in the U.S. than has gun crime, not to mention injuries. Maybe the car or alcohol should not have been invented- or is it the individual that drinks and get's behind the wheel? Those devices are also used responsibly by the majority who use them legally.
Yet you never hear all of those stories about guns saving fluffy kittens from trees. Guns are designed to kill and they have no other use other than threatening to kill someone which is just as bad. The fact that other things are used to kill people just demeans those objects, it doesn't make guns look better.
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
By no means do I think I am a "bad a$$". I merely know that I can hold my own against the average "thug" in hand-to-hand combat. Three years is not a long time, and yes, it only covers the basics, but I can fight against those bigger than me and not get hurt. In principle, it's nice to say that guns are beneficial to society, because they can help people defend themselves, but in practice, it causes a large number of gun related deaths. Canada, with it's gun resticting laws, has a lower gun related death ratio than the U.S., per capita. Of course, perhaps we're just to polite to kill :p.

;)
 

Dr. Nosophoros

Active Member
Yet you never hear all of those stories about guns saving fluffy kittens from trees.
So you have heard of cars, baseball bats, drunks, or drunk drivers saving fluffy kittens from trees? O.K.- I will give you the drunks, but just a few, I am sure someone that was drunk did so at one time or another. You also don't hear much (or anything) about crimes that were prevented because the attacker thought that someone was armed or found out the potential victim was armed, whether they had to shoot or not- but they are out there. Criminals are looking for an easy target, not someone that might be able to fight back. You also don't hear much about the millions of legally owned firearms that have millions of rounds shot through them every year without incident.

Guns are designed to kill and they have no other use other than threatening to kill someone which is just as bad. The fact that other things are used to kill people just demeans those objects, it doesn't make guns look better.

I have owned/shot guns for about 22 years ( minusing military service) and have never killed or threatened to kill anyone with them and I have shot thousands of rounds. If you consider the ammount of guns per capita in the U.S., if killing was their only purpose, our death rate by them should be in the millions every year.

No, it doesn't make them look better, but it underlines the fact that you don't need a gun to kill people and that you can take an ordinary everyday item and do it just as efficiently. You can walk into any toy store and buy a baseball bat at any age with no restriction, yet this is one of the most common non-gun weapons to kill someone, knives can be bought at most hardware and department stores they are second in line.

Canada, with it's gun resticting laws, has a lower gun related death ratio than the U.S., per capita. Of course, perhaps we're just to polite to kill
and you do so through the loss of personal liberty and freedom whether you would have killed someone with them or not, you forfeit your rights.
If you are a law abiding citizen that would not harm someone with one, then you have let the small group of people that would, scare you into giving up your right to own one if you wanted to Or maybe you believe that giving up some personal liberty is for the greater good, I see no greater good than the cause of personal liberty, and that comes with responsiblity.

I feel we don't need a government(s) to let us know what is good for us or not, what we need is responsibility for the self and responsibility for actions, if an individual cannot handle that then yes, they should forfeit those rights, but for those that can handle them responsibly, let them do as they please.
 

No*s

Captain Obvious
Dr. Nosophoros said:
you do so through the loss of personal liberty and freedom whether you would have killed someone with them or not, you forfeit your rights.
If you are a law abiding citizen that would not harm someone with one, then you have let the small group of people that would, scare you into giving up your right to own one if you wanted to Or maybe you believe that giving up some personal liberty is for the greater good, I see no greater good than the cause of personal liberty, and that comes with responsiblity.

I feel we don't need a government(s) to let us know what is good for us or not, what we need is responsibility for the self and responsibility for actions, if an individual cannot handle that then yes, they should forfeit those rights, but for those that can handle them responsibly, let them do as they please.

Dr. No,

You just keep earning frubals :).

<cliche quote>"Those who would give up their liberty for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."</cliche quote>.

There are certain points, like guns, where I trust the common man, and we have been quite capable of self-regulation in the past. We can do so some more.

No*s -- who has fired many, many guns, owns a few swords, and will likely buy some more guns in the future just to exercise the liberty (if I ever get the spare cash lol).
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
You misunderstand me. We have restrictive laws. Not "no guns". I think it would be better if no guns existed, but they do, so there should be limitations on who can own a gun. No one with a criminal record and no one who hasn't passed a training course.
 

Fluffy

A fool
So you have heard of cars, baseball bats, drunks, or drunk drivers saving fluffy kittens from trees? O.K.- I will give you the drunks, but just a few, I am sure someone that was drunk did so at one time or another. You also don't hear much (or anything) about crimes that were prevented because the attacker thought that someone was armed or found out the potential victim was armed, whether they had to shoot or not- but they are out there. Criminals are looking for an easy target, not someone that might be able to fight back. You also don't hear much about the millions of legally owned firearms that have millions of rounds shot through them every year without incident.
Lol yeah okay agreed. But all those other objects serve other purposes. None of them, other than SOME knives, are designed to kill. Therefore you do hear about these objects serving useful purposes whilst you never hear the same about a gun.

I have owned/shot guns for about 22 years ( minusing military service) and have never killed or threatened to kill anyone with them and I have shot thousands of rounds. If you consider the ammount of guns per capita in the U.S., if killing was their only purpose, our death rate by them should be in the millions every year.
When I said that they were designed to kill, I meant ALL forms of life, not just humans. Now I'm a vegetarian and so I don't agree with guns used for killing anything, including, but not exclusively, humans. If you factored in all of the gun related deaths per year then I am certain you will find the figures in the millions. I am also quite willing to believe that there are people out there, like you, who will use such a weapon responsibly. However, I think that it is just as easy for someone else to get their hands on a gun who uses it less responsibly and the only way to get around this would be to put into effect a complete ban since a screening method is impractible and unreliable.

I just feel that guns are unecessary objects. I recognise that you have not used a gun to kill or threaten to kill someone but you do not offer an alternative motive for owning a gun. I would be interesting in knowing what your reasons were. Collecting I can understand... but then I don't understand buying ammunition to go with a collection nor the shooting of these weapons.

and you do so through the loss of personal liberty and freedom whether you would have killed someone with them or not, you forfeit your rights.
If you are a law abiding citizen that would not harm someone with one, then you have let the small group of people that would, scare you into giving up your right to own one if you wanted to Or maybe you believe that giving up some personal liberty is for the greater good, I see no greater good than the cause of personal liberty, and that comes with responsiblity.
I can understand your want to protect your personal liberties. To what extent should you be allowed to do something then? What about owning explosives? Surely if you are a law abiding citizen then you won't abuse said explosives and it is better to be given the right to own them than to allow a minority of society take that liberty away from you? What about personal nuclear weapons? Surely these are no different from guns or any other type of weapons other than the scale? Yet a lost life is a lost life whether it is 1 or 1000. Is it anymore right to take the risk of 1 other persons life than 1000 other peoples lives?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Guns to me are an issue of personal responcibility. I have never fired a gun, but I want to learn someday. The US is a bit gun obsessed but I blame US history in part for that.
I think we should do more to educate our population on gun ownership and responcibility and do more to keep track of what guns go where and with whom.
We keep better track of our cars than we do our guns.:tsk:

wa:do
 

Fluffy

A fool
Guns to me are an issue of personal responcibility. I have never fired a gun, but I want to learn someday. The US is a bit gun obsessed but I blame US history in part for that.
I think we should do more to educate our population on gun ownership and responcibility and do more to keep track of what guns go where and with whom.
We keep better track of our cars than we do our guns.:tsk:
This is DEFINITELY a step in the right direction.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
Personally, I am a little leery of people with a fascination for automatic weapons, missile launchers, tanks... I suspect that they have issues with power and or male virility.
I think Lilthu's comment is right on here. Everytime I see a debate about gun control, how people feel about guns ect ect..there is always guys talking smack chests puffed out linking it to their masculinty and in some ways to their virility. It is important to note this because it seems the two....macho madness and guns are inseperable to a large degree. Not saying woman don't have an interest in firearms and all gun owners get overcome with macho madness when interacting with their guns..but I am noting that many men do in fact have testostrone attacks when handling firearms even if it is suttle and almost all of them link it, to some degree to their masuclinty.

Having said that, any decision that is made by society about firearms should address the two, machoism and guns as interconnected.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
if the purpose of having the second ammendment was so that the people could form malitias and fight a future unjust govenment then banning any sort of wepon takes away from that. Not that I want my neighbor having a tank, but from a purely "libratarian" viewpoint, what chance do the people have against the government if the right to bare arms is limited?
If and this I grant you is a big if, the time came for a new revolution against tyrany here at home the people wouldn't stand a chance.

Just one argument I have heard, and to a degree agree with. (though on a limited degree)

wa:do
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
For those of us who have used a firearm on another human being...... I can tell you that they serve no good.... an instrument of death like that should never be something used as a "hobby".... but that's just my opinion.
 

No*s

Captain Obvious
SOGFPP said:
For those of us who have used a firearm on another human being...... I can tell you that they serve no good.... an instrument of death like that should never be something used as a "hobby".... but that's just my opinion.

I can't say I understand, but I can say that it's an experience I never want.

Thanks for the post.
 
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