Hamas, innocent Palestinians, and the UN

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Much is being said in the media and RF about how Palestinians are innocent, subjected to apartheid, completely subdued by Hamas, and so on.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that's all true.

Note: I edited the following question after post #4, thanks @Orbit

Why has the UN taken no actions to remove Hamas since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)

I totally believe that life in Gaza is horrible. That's it's been horrible for years. If Palestinians cannot rise up to expel Hamas, then where is the UN to help them? The UN (in this case mostly driven by the Islamic faction called OIC), has plenty of time to endlessly condemn Israel, right? How about unseating Hamas instead. If the UN is all about human rights, Gaza seems like an urgent situation, and it has been for years now.

My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

Orbit · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
Much is being said in the media and RF about how Palestinians are innocent, subjected to apartheid, completely subdued by Hamas, and so on.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that's all true.

Why has the UN stood idly by since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)

I totally believe that life in Gaza is horrible. That's it's been horrible for years. If Palestinians cannot rise up to expel Hamas, then where is the UN to help them? The UN (in this case mostly driven by the Islamic faction called OIC), has plenty of time to endlessly condemn Israel, right? How about unseating Hamas instead. If the UN is all about human rights, Gaza seems like an urgent situation, and it has been for years now.

My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

The UN has proposed several resolutions censuring Israel for human rights violations but the US has used its veto power to squash them over the years, so it's not like the UN has "stood by". Can't comment on the rest.

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Orbit said:
The UN has proposed several resolutions censuring Israel but the US has used it's veto power to squash them over the years, so it's not like the UN has "stood by". Can't comment on the rest.

Yet another example of focusing on Israel? How about they focus on Hamas?

As I recall, the OIC has 57 member nations? They are a hugely powerful block in the UN. They have launched an endless stream of UN actions against Israel. But again, how about addressing terrorist organizations like Hamas?

Orbit · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
Yet another example of focusing on Israel? How about they focus on Hamas?

I was answering the specific question you asked. You were focused on Israel. You asked:

"Why has the UN stood idly by since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)"

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Orbit said:
I was answering the specific question you asked. You were focused on Israel. You asked:

"Why has the UN stood idly by since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)"

Good catch, I amended the question in the OP, thanks!

sun rise · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
Why has the UN taken no actions to remove Hamas since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)

Since when does the UN, specifically the Security Council take action on anything very much given that Russia and China have veto powers.

icehorse said:
My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

Have you looked at the membership Organisation of Islamic Cooperation - Wikipedia

Have you read their position on the region?

Israeli–Palestinian conflict

The OIC supports a two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.[20]

The OIC has called for boycott of Israeli products in effort to pressure Israel into ending the occupation of the Palestinian territories.[21][22]

There was a meeting in Conakry, Guinea, in 2013. Secretary-General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu said that foreign ministers would discuss the possibility of cutting ties with any state that recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel or that moves its embassy to its environs.[23]

In December 2017, the extraordinary meeting held to response Donald Trump's decision on recognizing Jerusalem, resulting "Istanbul Declaration on Freedom for Al Quds."[24]

In September 2019, the OIC condemned Benjamin Netanyahu's plans to annex the eastern portion of the occupied West Bank known as the Jordan Valley.[25]

Revoltingest · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

What evidence is there that they actually intend eliminating Israel?
Rhetoric doesn't count.

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

sun rise said:
Have you read their position on the region?

Notice that NONE of the OIC's positions mention Hamas?

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Revoltingest said:
What evidences there that they actually intend eliminating Israel?
Rhetoric doesn't count.

Hamas's charter (translated) includes in its opening statements: "Its covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War)."

Orbit · Oct 14, 2023

Some info that might be relevant here. The focus is on Palestinians because they are in humanitarian crisis right now:

UN shelters in northern Gaza 'not safe anymore'

The UN relief agency operating in Gaza has said its shelters in the northern part of the territory "are not safe anymore" - calling it "unprecedented".
"This war should be no exception," UNRWA said in a statement. "Protection of civilians and civilian infrastructure including UN buildings applies to this conflict too."
It said that despite the order from Israeli authorities for Palestinians to leave for the south, many people including pregnant women, children, the elderly and those with disabilities will not be able to flee the area.
"Wars have rules," UNRWA said. "Civilians, hospitals, schools, clinics and UN premises cannot be a target."

From: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

Of course Israel has every right to target Hamas; but 1.2 million Palestinians are not the same as Hamas.

Revoltingest · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
Yet another example of focusing on Israel? How about they focus on Hamas?

As I recall, the OIC has 57 member nations? They are a hugely powerful block in the UN. They have launched an endless stream of UN actions against Israel. But again, how about addressing terrorist organizations like Hamas?

Your claim was broader than Hamas.
My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

Another question is raised....
Let's agree that it's terrible to say that Israel should cease to exist.
Is it worse that Israel opposes Palestinians ever having a country?

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Revoltingest said:
My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

(above is your accurate quoting of one of my earlier posts)

Why has the OIC never supported the removal of Hamas?

Revoltingest said:
Is it worse that Israel opposes Palestinians ever having a country?

I guess it would be about the same, but of course that's never happened. In fact, Israel GAVE Gaza to the Palestinians almost 20 years ago, correct?

icehorse · Oct 14, 2023

Orbit said:
Some info that might be relevant here. The focus is on Palestinians because they are in humanitarian crisis right now:

That's a topic for a separate thread, thanks.

sayak83 · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
Much is being said in the media and RF about how Palestinians are innocent, subjected to apartheid, completely subdued by Hamas, and so on.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that's all true.

Note: I edited the following question after post #4, thanks @Orbit

Why has the UN taken no actions to remove Hamas since Israel unilaterally exited from Gaza? (it's been almost 20 years now)

I totally believe that life in Gaza is horrible. That's it's been horrible for years. If Palestinians cannot rise up to expel Hamas, then where is the UN to help them? The UN (in this case mostly driven by the Islamic faction called OIC), has plenty of time to endlessly condemn Israel, right? How about unseating Hamas instead. If the UN is all about human rights, Gaza seems like an urgent situation, and it has been for years now.

My uncharitable suspicion is that the OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation), views Palestinians as expendable pawns in their quest to eliminate Israel.

UN can't do anything that US, China or Russia does not want to. So the correct question is
Why have not the NATO, Russia or China tried to land troops in Palestine to oust Hamas.

Orbit · Oct 14, 2023

icehorse said:
That's a topic for a separate thread, thanks.

OK, but see your thread title: