Happy Jews, Unhappy Christians ?

[CMike]

So it is the sought after ideal of a Jew as defined by Torah. That I can partially comprehend.

I don't understand the question or statement?

 

[thau]

In The Broken Road, the young Patrick Liegh Fermor, walking in 1934 to Constantinople along the Danube in Rumania, had a conversation with a old Jewish innkeeper, 'Domnul David', comparing the Christian and Jewish religions and the older man said;
"I'll tell you the great advantage of our religion over yours: nobody can practice Christianity properly and lead an ordinary life. You Christians, unless you are saints, are always falling short of what you should be; you are never in the right for a second, always guilty, always miserable, always, try as you might, in disgrace. But the Jewish religion is made for human beings, there are a few easy rules we mustn't break, that's all.
We can practice our religion faultlessly, and still live like ordinary humans. It's easy to be a good Jew, impossible to be a good Christian. But Christians are no more virtuous than Jews are they - about the same? - So what's the odds? And the result? We are happy in our religion, you are all miserable, that's all. We've lots of other troubles but not religion".
Do you think he had a point?

Well, perhaps. But perhaps we have different goals?

The goal for a Christian is heaven not temporal happiness.

Anyway, I have no complaint with the Jews or their religion. I admire them.

But I might point out their own holy book does tell us this: “The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.” Ecclesiastes 7:4

I like that.

 

[CMike]

The goal of a Jew is to get closer to G-D.

 

[CMike]

But I might point out their own holy book does tell us this: “The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.” Ecclesiastes 7:4

.

How so?

Here is a little explanation on it, Rashi.

The heart of the wise is in a house of mourning: Their thought is about the day of death.

whereas the heart of the fools is in a house of joy: They do not quake because of the day of death, and their hearts are as sound as a palace.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't understand the question or statement?

It only came up because I was demonstrating how I didn't know what a Chasid was. Rosen posted a link, and that was what I got from it. "So it is the sought after ideal of a Jew as defined by Torah. That I can partially comprehend."

 

[CMike]

I understand...sort of.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I understand...sort of.

Probably I should be more careful not to make jokes in serious threads. The joke was on me though. I think to really understand what 'Chasid' means there are probably a lot of things to understand. I don't really expect to get it from reading a page.

 

[thau]

How so?

Here is a little explanation on it, Rashi.

The heart of the wise is in a house of mourning: Their thought is about the day of death.

whereas the heart of the fools is in a house of joy: They do not quake because of the day of death, and their hearts are as sound as a palace.

Well that strikes me as a little too generous for the standing of a "fool" but I will not contend with it.

Clearly, the lessons are far more in depth and meaningful in the scriptures than just what one passage can relate.

I would like to think the wise are in a house of mourning not because of their contemplation on their own mortality, or even on their own fate, but on the state of affairs of mankind in general.

Many Jewish diverse interpretations on the need to think of the afterlife (or not), or even if there is one, but I stand with those who believe G-d will not abandon them once they pass. It makes the most sense in light of everything else.

Having said that, Ecclesiastes is also where we get the phrase of "eat, drink and be merry" from. And what that refers to more aligns with your comments. It is the Lord essentially telling his faithful to partake in such measures because life is mostly a struggle and a worry, and if we focus too much on that every day we will drive ourselves into a great sadness.

 

[Sariel]

I agree but it also depends on the type of Christian environment one grows up. I grew up in a Catholic community and really enjoyed my time growing up with them. I still abstain from meat on Friday during Lent even though I don't even identify as Catholic anymore. Contrast that with the time I spent at a Calvinist church. It felt like a had a dark cloud of pessimistic misanthropy.
Judaism felt much more liberating for me for a few reasons. A more optimistic view of the human condition, focus on this life and not heaven, no "believe X dogma or eternal damnation".
Although to be fair both have their own strengths and weaknesses. If I were to sum much of my stronger feelings on both:
Christianity: I like the "Universal" aspect, but ultimately much of its doctrines come off as too pessimistic and problematic in a big way for me.
Judaism: Makes more sense in terms of doctrines, but unless you're circumcised, you're basically doomed to be "other son" God doesn't care much for.
Kind of a sour way to put it, but maybe I'm just in a sour mode right now.

 

[fiat lux]

I think the old Rumanian Jew had a point. I have given up alcohol for lent and with only a week gone, 40 days (and nights!) seems a very long time - why does it need it be so hard ? Ramadan is tough for Muslims, particularly as it is now falling in the height of Summer, but they have at least only got to make it through the day to sunset for food and a (non-alcoholic) drink.
Most Jews like an alcoholic drink, but they just seem to get on and enjoy it in moderation. I remember hearing a retired judge saying that during 20 years at the bench he had never had one single Jew brought before him for being drunk and disorderly. Interesting!

 

[Flankerl]

but unless you're circumcised, you're basically doomed to be "other son" God doesn't care much for.

Yeah uhm no.

 

[Brickjectivity]

never had one single Jew brought before him for being drunk and disorderly.

How did he know who was or wasn't Jewish?