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Harihara?
- Thread starter Philomath
- Start date
Ashoka
श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
Namaskar,
Shaivas and some sects of Vaishnava worship Harihara (especially the Swaminarayan Vaishnavas). I guess you could say both sects would see Harihara as Supreme, because they see them both as two sides of the same coin.
I am not entirely sure how He specifically would be worship as someone's Ishta-Devata. I personally have Harihara to remind me that both Sri Vishnu and Shiva Bhagavan are the same God. I believe this is what many Vaishnavas and Shaivas who see Shiva and Vishnu as the same do.
I hope I was able to help in some way
Pranams :namaste:
Shaivas and some sects of Vaishnava worship Harihara (especially the Swaminarayan Vaishnavas). I guess you could say both sects would see Harihara as Supreme, because they see them both as two sides of the same coin.
I am not entirely sure how He specifically would be worship as someone's Ishta-Devata. I personally have Harihara to remind me that both Sri Vishnu and Shiva Bhagavan are the same God. I believe this is what many Vaishnavas and Shaivas who see Shiva and Vishnu as the same do.
I hope I was able to help in some way
Pranams :namaste:
While I'm nominally Vaishnava (Krishna = ishtadevata), I see Vishnu and Shiva as one and the same, as Shivoham said "two sides of the same coin": Shivasya hridayam Vishnur Vishnoscha hridayam Shivah ("Vishnu is the heart of Shiva and Shiva is the heart of Vishnu"). I pray to both of them. I guess you could call me "Vaishnashaiva" or "Shaivaishnava".
I found and kept this (which of course, not everyone will agree with
):
"One who says he is My devotee, but has no devotion for Mahādeva, he is not actually my devotee" says Lord Vishnu, Sri Hari.
"One who is my devotee but not a devotee of Lord Vishnu is not in reality my devotee" says Lord Haradeva, Shiva Shambhu.
I found and kept this (which of course, not everyone will agree with
):"One who says he is My devotee, but has no devotion for Mahādeva, he is not actually my devotee" says Lord Vishnu, Sri Hari.
"One who is my devotee but not a devotee of Lord Vishnu is not in reality my devotee" says Lord Haradeva, Shiva Shambhu.
I have that one.
This one is on the cover of my prayer booklet I made:
This one is on the cover of my prayer booklet I made:
I think it was a later invention in an attempt to harmonize the two sides. But I have no proof other than dates used to try to get the origin of this concept. I personally don't worship Harihara, and there is no image in our temple, but if someone else wants to, go for it. As with a lot of this sort of stuff, I just personally don't find it necessary. I take it more as a symbolic gesture that Siva and Vishnu are the same God, not as a new God different than both previous ones.
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Kalidas
Well-Known Member
I have a question yet didnt want to make another thread. So about all the gods and goddesses as far as the stories go how much of them are excepted as fact and how much are accepted as just stories? Also once one has an ishta deva do we just stop believing in the other deities? Sorry its just all a little confusing to me.
Philomath
Sadhaka
Hi Lemaster
Ishta-devata is really only a term that has any significance within the Smart lineage of Adi Shankaracharya. Members of this lineage are given five (sometimes six) deities to choose dedication to - Shiva, Visnu, Surya, Ganesha or Devi, sometimes Muragan is added. Amongst the other sampradayas the term ishta-devata doesn't really have any meaning because if you are a Gaudiya Vaishnav then you worship Krishna, if you are a member of the Lingayats (Veerashaiva) then you worship Shiva.
If you are a member of Vinayaka's sampradaya you worship Shiva as supreme and if you are a Vaishnava like Madhuri then Krishna is supreme for you, and if you are a Shakta like WannabeYogi than one of the forms of Devi (typically Durga or Kali) is supreme.
As for stories in the puranas etc - I believe many of them are parables. There is a chance that they did happen but I don't believe they happened in our reality. Probably on higher planes of existence, in my personal opinion.
Kalidas
Well-Known Member
I thought most people had a "primary deity" . I read something someone said on here earlier it said " If someone worships one they worship them all, if someone worships them all they worship none" or something similar to that end.
While most people do have a primary deity you must also consider their traditions. Within Saiva Siddhanta your primary deity is going to be Shiva. Within Gaudiya Vaishnavism it's going to be Krishna. Unaffliated Hindus will generally have a deity that they direct their devotion towards and Shaktas may choose any of the forms of the Goddess.
Also, if you ask a Shaiva 'do you worship Visnu' or a Vaishnav 'do you worship Shiva' you will generally get a negative. There are those from either tradition who will not set foot within the temples of the 'opposition's' deity.
VajraYosid
Member
Ishtha-devata is not solely a Smarta concept. Even within monotheistic-ish sects (most anyway), there are a range of forms the God takes.
I concur with Devi and Vajra as to ishta. It's a Smarta concept. But the other question, regarding myth, or history, the answer isn't so clear, as some take them very literally, while others don't, and both sides can be quite adamant about their view. For me personally, it's all metaphor.
As a Siva worshipper, I also worship Murugan, and Ganesha, because they are extensions of him, and stand on their own and are used for particular purposes, mainly help with worldly matters, and then with yoga/meditation/penance stuff. They are both within the Saiva line. Most Murugan bhaktars, for example, in Malaysia, know that Siva is God.
As far as other Gods go, like Krishna, Kali, etc. I will worship them, but not as intricately, or intimately, more just out of respect for my fellow Hindu. I think refusing to enter another sect's temple is going a bit far, yet having said that, I would have a very difficult time going to watch where animal sacrifice still occurs.
VajraYosid
Member
It seems to me you might be walking away with a premature conclusion. Harihara's form, while popular, has an obscure worship - one that is not known to me. Nonetheless mantras for Him exists, as well as more esoteric symbolism in the tantras.
Mantras generally do not exist without corresponding dhyan shlokas. I think this is a subject requiring further inquiry.
Perhaps this may be a good starting point:
Maònòdalas and Yantras in the Hindu Traditions - G. B]hnemann - Google Books
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It does seem to be obscure (emphasis is mine); I haven't come across any mantras or slokas to Harihara specifically, in my internet travels...
Lord Siva and His Worship Swami Sivananda was a proponent, as the above quote indicates.
Philomath
Sadhaka
Swami Sivananda, despite his name, was a Smarta. Look at some of the many Gurus whom he initiated and their names. Venkatesanada. Vishnudevanada, etc. So his book is not a treatise on Siva as a Saiva would write, but as a Smarta with the chosen form to be Siva. There is a substantial difference philosophically.
VajraYosid
Member
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Hinduism is still out of reach of Western converts - and, for that matter, most Indians. Why? Because only a small % of the scripture has been translated, and the oral transmissions also remain out of earshot.
The guys who really should know a lot are able to dedicate their entire waking & sleeping/dreaming life to learning the intricacies of sadhana (spiritual practice; worship). The picture of the man in your profile - a sadhu, should be one such, although unfortunately most sadhus in India now are little more than beggars or, worse - thieves and miscreants.
There are a lot of sects, a lot of cross-pollenation between them. Within each sect, there are a lot of of different methods to be known and synchronized, if one really wants to study and practice in the way it was intended to be.
To return to the subject of Harihara in light of the above, one can see how deep the undercurrents go beneath the surface. There is tremendous detail - so many mantras, so many vital concepts to charge one's practice with - such as the rishi, the shakti, the meter, and so forth of the mantra, the laws of sound & grammar as they relate to the theory of mantra which the mantrin should be aware of, the dhyana the mantra gives rise to, and its corresponding yantra. It boggles the modern mind the degree to which these yogis were able to virtualize a spiritual cosmos within themselves.
Within this bewildering array of practices, there may well be quite well defined Harihara sadhanas and particular cults dedicated to Harihara.
Here's another useful reference:
Encyclopaedia of the Śaivism - Swami Parmeshwaranand - Google Books
What, may I ask, is your interest in Harihara as ishtha-devata?
I would go so far as to say, from reading what I have from him, that Swami Sivananda was more than Smarta, to the extent that he fully accepted Jesus as a manifestation of God (not even I do ). He didn't coin the phrase Shivasya hridayam Vishnur Vishnoscha hridayam Shivah, however; I believe it is from a Purana. There was a discussion about it here a long time ago.
). He didn't coin the phrase Shivasya hridayam Vishnur Vishnoscha hridayam Shivah, however; I believe it is from a Purana. There was a discussion about it here a long time ago.VajraYosid
Member
Hm... This may be true from Southern perspective - I don't have the knowledge or experience to know, but there's considerable overlap between Northern dashanamis/smartas/shaivas.
A lot of dashanami akharas absorbed shaiva tantric practices & devotional outlooks.
Even in 'hardcore' Shaiva streams one will find a lot of acharyas with Vishnu-inspired names - or otherwise.