Harris mentions democracy as the biggest national security threat.

[metis]

Ballots are supposed to be secret as to how we may vote so why in the world would anyone recommend our names be on the ballot?

BTW, my wife and I have voted on absentee ballots for roughly 20 years now, but in order to do that we had to be registered here in Michigan.

 

[Twilight Hue]

But that doesn't provide identification, and doesn't prove that the vote is legit.

So would you be fine if voters just checked their name off a list at the ballot box without needing to show ID?
That would be about the same level of security required of absentee ballots.

Its still foolproof by which no person can cast two votes in the same name.

If so, it then can be reported there was a fraudulent vote cast by the person who's name is printed on the ballot.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ballots are supposed to be secret as to how we may vote so why in the world would anyone recommend our names be on the ballot?

BTW, my wife and I have voted on absentee ballots for roughly 20 years now, but in order to do that we had to be registered here in Michigan.

You have to sign in at the polls with your name and political affiliation. It's no different with a blank absentee ballot pre printed with your name and sent to the voter to fill it out, seal it, and send it to back.

 

[Kooky]

Its still foolproof by which no person can cast two votes in the same name.

If so, it then can be reported there was a fraudulent vote cast by the person who's name is printed on the ballot.

Then you agree that mandatory IDs are not necessary to prevent election fraud?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Then you agree that mandatory IDs are not necessary to prevent election fraud?

No. I think you need mandatory ID. Citizens only.

Especially when you have existing political interests that support foreign intervention and integration in our elections. It becomes even more essential than ever.

 

[Kooky]

No. I think you need mandatory ID. Citizens only.

Especially when you have existing political interests that support foreign intervention and integration in our elections. It becomes even more essential.

But you just established that they are not necessary:

But that doesn't provide identification, and doesn't prove that the vote is legit.

So would you be fine if voters just checked their name off a list at the ballot box without needing to show ID?
That would be about the same level of security required of absentee ballots.

Its still foolproof by which no person can cast two votes in the same name.

If so, it then can be reported there was a fraudulent vote cast by the person who's name is printed on the ballot.

So what's the point of introducing unnecessary mandates to further restrict voting?

 

[Twilight Hue]

But you just established that they are not necessary:

But you just established that they are not necessary:

What I'm saying is that we should have ballots with our names on it pre printed and then mailed to us. If an unauthorized person uses such a ballot, say an absentee ballot that isn't the person who's name on it, that person can be reported.

 

[Kooky]

What I'm saying is that we should have ballots with our names on it pre printed and then mailed to us. If an unauthorized person uses such a ballot, say an absentee ballot that isn't the person who's name on it, that person can be reported.

This is somewhat similar to how it works in my country. A few weeks before election day, I get sent a card with my name and the address of the place where I'm supposed to show up to vote.

Ironically, because ID is required where I live, that card is really only of any use if you don't know where you need to cast your ballot. (Having an ID is mandatory here, not just for voting)

 

[metis]

Here in Michigan, our ballots are mailed to those who have signed up for it on a request basis one election at a time, and on our actual ballot is a number that identifies who we are, which we then have to sign and mail back. We do not have any request for party affiliation on our ballots as some states do.

After our ballot is received, it is processed through a computer system that checks our signature as compared to what we've signed in the past elections, and if the match is not close enough, it is kicked out and checked manually by an inspector. If it's too different, it is not counted but it is kept.

Then a voter here can request by computer as to whether our ballot was certified, and if not, then the person can go to city hall and show them ID with their signature.

IOW, it works. The political "talking point" on this with the Pubs is just an idiotic smokescreen that they parrot from some of the talking heads in their media and/or party. No brains nor honesty-- just partisan claptrap.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is somewhat similar to how it works in my country. A few weeks before election day, I get sent a card with my name and the address of the place where I'm supposed to show up to vote.

Ironically, because ID is required where I live, that card is really only of any use if you don't know where you need to cast your ballot. (Having an ID is mandatory here, not just for voting)

My local elections are like that. I get a postcard telling me where to go, they look up my name, I sign it, then they give me a ballot and I vote in the private cubicle that is set up.

 

[Kooky]

My local elections are like that. I get a postcard telling me where to go, they look up my name, I sign it, then they give me a ballot and I vote in the private cubicle that is set up.

Which begs the question - whatever would you need an ID for?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Which begs the question - whatever would you need an ID for?

Verification just what all IDs are for.

???

 

[Ponder This]

How do administrations verify a voter's identity when they're voting via mail?

How do they know that the person who mailed them the ballot was actually the person who cast the vote?

Entire states vote by mail ballot. Washington State being one of several. California the most recent.

Also, election day should be a national holiday.

Each state does handle voting differently as the power is given to states.

But, for example, before the pandemic, you would go into the appropriate local governmental office in some states (such as NY) to request your ballot directly. It is worth noting that a driver's license is one of the acepted forms of identification in NY. Voting in NY is easier for people with driver's licenses, driver ID being ubiquitous. Proof of residence is also generally required when you register to vote.

It is also possible to fill out a Federal Post Card Application (FPCA), if you are, for example, in the military on active duty. The FPCA may be used by citizens who are overseas. The requirements of photo ID and proof of residence are waived for members of the military who use the FPCA.

Mail-in ballots that are sent out to registered voters suffer some problems.

1. Voters are unaware of the ballot.
2. Voters do not present themselves.
3. The ballots may be handled by various third parties.​

For example, a person could fill out ballots for his parents, his parents would not be aware they had received ballots, and the local government would not know that ballots were submitted by someone other than his parents. That's just one simple example of how the system can be (and has been) exploited.

 

[metis]

Mail-in ballots that are sent out to registered voters suffer some problems.
1. Voters are unaware of the ballot.
2. Voters do not present themselves.
3. The ballots may be handled by various third parties.For example, a person could fill out ballots for his parents, his parents would not be aware they had received ballots, and the local government would not know that ballots were submitted by someone other than his parents. That's just one simple example of how the system can be (and has been) exploited.

Studies have shown that cheating as such is VERY rare, and I'm sure one part of that which is a good deterrent is the fact that in a federal election it is a felony with a five-year sentence being possible, and this doesn't even include possible state charges.

And William Barr, Trump's AG said, this last election was undoubtedly the cleanest in any previous national election.

IOW, it's Pub Kabuki Theatre that's driving this drivel.

 

[anna.]

Each state does handle voting differently as the power is given to states.

But, for example, before the pandemic, you would go into the appropriate local governmental office in some states (such as NY) to request your ballot directly. It is worth noting that a driver's license is one of the acepted forms of identification in NY. Voting in NY is easier for people with driver's licenses, driver ID being ubiquitous. Proof of residence is also generally required when you register to vote.

It is also possible to fill out a Federal Post Card Application (FPCA), if you are, for example, in the military on active duty. The FPCA may be used by citizens who are overseas. The requirements of photo ID and proof of residence are waived for members of the military who use the FPCA.

Mail-in ballots that are sent out to registered voters suffer some problems.

1. Voters are unaware of the ballot.
2. Voters do not present themselves.
3. The ballots may be handled by various third parties.​

For example, a person could fill out ballots for his parents, his parents would not be aware they had received ballots, and the local government would not know that ballots were submitted by someone other than his parents. That's just one simple example of how the system can be (and has been) exploited.

Before the pandemic, Washington State mailed out ballots to each registered voter. Their system evolved over roughly 30 years becoming more and more universal, and was finalized in 2011. They don't seem to have had any major problems. There's nothing in this system likely to produce the kind of fraud that could tip a presidential election.

The kind of fraud that might tip a local race is likely to happen when ballots are mishandled by a corrupt poll worker or official, and in that instance it wouldn't matter if the ballots had been mailed in or placed in person.

 

[Kooky]

Each state does handle voting differently as the power is given to states.

But, for example, before the pandemic, you would go into the appropriate local governmental office in some states (such as NY) to request your ballot directly. It is worth noting that a driver's license is one of the acepted forms of identification in NY. Voting in NY is easier for people with driver's licenses, driver ID being ubiquitous. Proof of residence is also generally required when you register to vote.

It is also possible to fill out a Federal Post Card Application (FPCA), if you are, for example, in the military on active duty. The FPCA may be used by citizens who are overseas. The requirements of photo ID and proof of residence are waived for members of the military who use the FPCA.

Mail-in ballots that are sent out to registered voters suffer some problems.

1. Voters are unaware of the ballot.
2. Voters do not present themselves.
3. The ballots may be handled by various third parties.​

For example, a person could fill out ballots for his parents, his parents would not be aware they had received ballots, and the local government would not know that ballots were submitted by someone other than his parents. That's just one simple example of how the system can be (and has been) exploited.

Thank you for the detailed information.
So you are against absentee voting then?

 

[Ponder This]

Thank you for the detailed information.
So you are against absentee voting then?

I am not opposed to absentee voting.
I am opposed to non-citizen voting. For example, recent legislation would have citizens of other countries able to move to New York City, live there for 30 days, and register to vote in local elections. That's going to be contested because the the state constitution grants the right to vote specifically to citizens.
I'm also for free and fair elections. If a system can't verify its voters, then it must be assumed the system has unverified voters. If you were to offer tests but didn't verify the test-takers, you could have people take tests for you. For example, if you were to take an SAT and you are 21 years or older on the day of the test, then you would present a government issued photo ID on the day of the test.

In a system, where you have no way of verifying identity, it must be assumed that not all participants are who they claim to be. This is unacceptable, elections can and do sometimes have slim margins for error. For example, in 2020 a U.S. House of Representative seat for Iowa was decided by a difference of 6 votes.

 

[Kooky]

I am not opposed to absentee voting.
I am opposed to non-citizen voting. For example, recent legislation would have citizens of other countries able to move to New York City, live there for 30 days, and register to vote in local elections. That's going to be contested because the the state constitution grants the right to vote specifically to citizens.

If they were legally allowed to vote (which I assume they are if they are being registered), then ID laws wouldn't stop them from voting, would they?

I'm also for free and fair elections. If a system can't verify its voters, then it must be assumed the system has unverified voters.

But absentee votes could not be verified to the degree a voting ID law would require.

In a system, where you have no way of verifying identity, it must be assumed that not all participants are who they claim to be.

Which is the case for absentee votes, is it not?
Nobody's IDs are being checked there, as far as I can tell.

 

[Ponder This]

If they were legally allowed to vote (which I assume they are if they are being registered), then ID laws wouldn't stop them from voting, would they?

That is correct. ID laws do not prevent someone from voting who is legally allowed to vote.

But absentee votes could not be verified to the degree a voting ID law would require.

Absentee votes can be verified to the degree a voting ID law would require.

Which is the case for absentee votes, is it not?
Nobody's IDs are being checked there, as far as I can tell.

Generally, ID is required for absentee votes. Although, states differ in their requirements and procedures. Also mail-in ballots are different than absentee ballots. Some states send out ballots to everyone in the voting register and simply require a signature to verify the authenticity of the ballot (a far less secure way of conducting an election). These are not necessarily absent voters. There is the assumption (with ballots mailed to registered voters) that they are not absent, but rather present at their addresses, receiving ballots, and responding accordingly. That said, they could, in fact, very well not be present in addition to not be sufficiently identified.

 

[Kooky]

Absentee votes can be verified to the degree a voting ID law would require.

How would an absentee vote supply proper identification? Do they mail in their votes alongside a copy of their ID? How can you ensure anonymous voting in such a fashion?