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Harris pulls ahead of Trump in Iowa in the 11th hour

F

F1fan

Veteran Member
anna. said:
I can look to the conservative build up to the culmination of Trump from the 80s to 2015, I can look at the spread of misinformation amplified through social media, the influence of Christian nationalism, the backlash to the first Black president, the Rush Limbaugh years, the white majority grievances, the Clinton body count segueing into QAnon... so many different facets. And yet... for the life of me I don't know why they can't look at his orange face, his ridiculous hair, his hands playing an invisible accordion, and his crazy, rambling, disjointed confabulations and not allow themselves to admit that this imagined political messiah is nothing more than an addled carnival barker. How do they not see it.
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Trump first ran in the 2012 republican primary and we rejected in the early going. He was seen as a joke candidate. When he won the 2016 primary I believed Clinton had a guaranteed win because Trump was a joke only conservatives were taling seriously. But something had broken with conservatives that no one saw coming. As you noted it began with Reagan and his idealistic rhetoric that was anti-government, and got worse with Gingrich's advice to not cooperate with democrats. A black president sent many conservatives over the edge.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
Iowa is yet another state that's going to fall in the freedom index.

If they want to make a colossal stupid move like that , then Iowans collectively deserve whatever misery that's coming towards them.

Something wicked this way comes.
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I am curious. How does a vote that would increase freedom cause a drop in the freedom index? It must be like a golf score.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
crossfire said:
Are they going to flip a couple of US House seats?
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That seems likely. Up-ticket success (president) generally results in down-ticket success on its coattails.

In this case, it appears to be driven more by dissatisfaction with Trump than new enthusiasm for Harris. She had an uptick in popularity relative to Biden upon entering the race and then again after the debate, but despite her and her proxy's tireless, positive, and intelligent barnstorming, the needle hadn't moved much in weeks until recently, which is why I attribute it more to what Trump and his comedian proxy have said than Harris' campaign.

Whatever the motivation, the new numbers suggest that more people will come out to vote for Harris that weren't motivated to vote before, and they will vote for other candidates on the same ballot who they likely never heard of, since these are likely largely apolitical, low-propensity voters energized by a single comment or issue that these people only heard about when they appeared in the part of cyberspace they occupy and celebrities they admire began speaking out against Trump. One popular Puerto Rican singer and former Trump endorser rescinded his endorsement, and that's the kind of thing these politically disconnected people might hear and react to: https://www.politico.com/live-updat...ky-jam-trump-endorsement-puerto-rico-00186360 So, some of his fans who might not know the difference between a Democrat and Republican decide to go out and vote for Harris, and don't stop voting at president despite recognizing none of the names on the ballot, and vote by party.

Down-ticket Republican candidates will also be hurt by would-be Trump voters, many presumably Hispanic, not voting, although that effect should be smaller, since many likely had already voted before Trump disgusted them.

This is very encouraging. It's important to give Kamala both houses of Congress like Joe got in 2020 if possible if she is to avoid the gridlock he faced after the Democrats lost the House in 2022.
anna. said:
for the life of me I don't know why they can't look at his orange face, his ridiculous hair, his hands playing an invisible accordion, and his crazy, rambling, disjointed confabulations and not allow themselves to admit that this imagined political messiah is nothing more than an addled carnival barker. How do they not see it.
Click to expand...
I feel the same, but the cold, hard facts are that a significant chunk of America no longer supports a common culture with the rest. They don't love honesty, integrity, compassion, community, democracy, the Constitution, church-state separation, or the rule of law. How should one feel about such a demographic?

I feel as alienated and repulsed by MAGA culture as I can be and that they are as much enemies of America and Americanism as Putin, the Taliban, Xi, Kim, and the Iranians.

I understand the objections about dehumanizing people, but I see MAGA behavior as closer to a swarm of mindless, destructive, monolithic locust than neighbors or fellow anythings. I not only feel no affinity there, I am repulsed.

On a lighter note, this is Larry David from Curb Your Enthusiasm, a liberal, who found ways to use that hat to his benefit. Look at the number of people that are offended by MAGA in this (trigger alert: f-bombs ... hey, it's HBO), and this is already a few years old:

 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
F1fan said:
Trump first ran in the 2012 republican primary and we rejected in the early going.
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en.wikipedia.org

2012 Republican Party presidential candidates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He never ran in 2012.
F1fan said:
He was seen as a joke candidate. When he won the 2016 primary I believed Clinton had a guaranteed win because Trump was a joke only conservatives were taling seriously. But something had broken with conservatives that no one saw coming. As you noted it began with Reagan and his idealistic rhetoric that was anti-government, and got worse with Gingrich's advice to not cooperate with democrats.
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he declined to run in 2012. So no he was not a joke candidate.
F1fan said:
A black president sent many conservatives over the edge.
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:rolleyes:
 
anna.

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
It Aint Necessarily So said:
I feel as alienated and repulsed by MAGA culture as I can be and that they are as much enemies of America and Americanism as Putin, the Taliban, Xi, Kim, and the Iranians.

I understand the objections about dehumanizing people, but I see MAGA behavior as closer to a swarm of mindless, destructive, monolithic locust than neighbors or fellow anythings. I not only feel no affinity there, I am repulsed.
Click to expand...


It Aint Necessarily So said:
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laughing.gif



I have that same reaction when I see someone in a Trump hat, and especially when a see a truck flying overcompensating Trump flags.

I avoid dehumanizing terms. I temper my disrespect because there are many in my circle of family and friends who are Trump supporters. Except for small inroads with a couple of them, I can't change that, and avoid political discussions like the plague. It's a tough place to be, and why the OP ad resonates. It rings true because I came out of that culture, yet I'm still adjacent to it. A lot of people are in that situation, they aren't surrounded by people who agree with them. Some people, due to their work, family and friend culture, are siloed in real life. Say they're an academic in a progressive field, they come from a progressive family, their co-workers and their friends all share similar worldviews. When they bump into an evangelical MAGA, it could be quite the shock to their system. And yet that is a good chunk of the country, and the ad reminding women their vote is secret, and the group behind the ad, are trying to meet that demographic where they are. I think it'll turn out they had an impact.
 
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It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
anna. said:
I have that same reaction when I see someone in a Trump hat, and especially when a see a truck flying overcompensating Trump flags.
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I agree. The reaction is not limited to seeing a hat or any other symbol that says Trump. If one identifies themselves (I'm still not used to using plural pronouns other than you to mean a single person, but I'll go with the flow there) as a Trump supporter, I have a negative reaction about them that can't be undone.
anna. said:
I avoid dehumanizing terms.
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I've come to understand what human means to me differently over the last many years. Merely having 23 pairs of chromosomes and being a bipedal ape isn't enough to earn respect or favor any more for me. I've seen too much from too many humans that I find repugnant. I saw the selfish acting out and tantrumming of those refusing to cooperate with those around them during the pandemic mask and vaccine mandates. I've seen the ugliness that is MAGA tens of millions strong.

And watching police arrest videos has added to that. It's an endless stream of angry, uniformed, anti-social, selfish people acting out defiantly in the face of authority, which also describes MAGA and the pandemic brats.

I have no good will for or sense of connection to such people. Both of those changed me and my view of humanity. I am indifferent to the needs and desires of such people except to thwart them what they adversely affect others.

One needs to be better than that, or a stranger who might be better than that, to enjoy a degree of respect and benevolence from me. That's always been true, but I used to think that only a small fraction of people were so selfish and anti-social. Now I see that it is about half of Americans anyway.

So, I can call these people human, but only in a biological sense, and as I said, that's not enough to protect or support such people, just as being human isn't for a fetus, albeit for different reasons. That's probably still dehumanizing them in some sense even if I agree that they are technically human.
anna. said:
I temper my disrespect because there are many in my circle of family and friends who are Trump supporters.
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You must mean how you express yourself, not your thoughts. I also temper how I express myself to the few MAGA I encounter in meat space. I share no political opinions with them.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
Not the only case example of this irrational witch hunt against less than 1% of the population doing collateral damage that's just stupid - it's also why we have new censorship policies eliminating classics of literature from school libraries, elimination of offices that support marginalized students, and state policing of language use on things that are much ado about nothing. Like, we have actual problems that are in dire need of addressing like the cancer crisis and horrible water quality in the state.
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Plant cat tails to clean the runoff water and use the cat tails to make ethanol. You already have the ethanol production infrastructure in place, no?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
That seems likely. Up-ticket success (president) generally results in down-ticket success on its coattails.

In this case, it appears to be driven more by dissatisfaction with Trump than new enthusiasm for Harris. She had an uptick in popularity relative to Biden upon entering the race and then again after the debate, but despite her and her proxy's tireless, positive, and intelligent barnstorming, the needle hadn't moved much in weeks until recently, which is why I attribute it more to what Trump and his comedian proxy have said than Harris' campaign.

Whatever the motivation, the new numbers suggest that more people will come out to vote for Harris that weren't motivated to vote before, and they will vote for other candidates on the same ballot who they likely never heard of, since these are likely largely apolitical, low-propensity voters energized by a single comment or issue that these people only heard about when they appeared in the part of cyberspace they occupy and celebrities they admire began speaking out against Trump. One popular Puerto Rican singer and former Trump endorser rescinded his endorsement, and that's the kind of thing these politically disconnected people might hear and react to: https://www.politico.com/live-updat...ky-jam-trump-endorsement-puerto-rico-00186360 So, some of his fans who might not know the difference between a Democrat and Republican decide to go out and vote for Harris, and don't stop voting at president despite recognizing none of the names on the ballot, and vote by party.

Down-ticket Republican candidates will also be hurt by would-be Trump voters, many presumably Hispanic, not voting, although that effect should be smaller, since many likely had already voted before Trump disgusted them.

This is very encouraging. It's important to give Kamala both houses of Congress like Joe got in 2020 if possible if she is to avoid the gridlock he faced after the Democrats lost the House in 2022.

I feel the same, but the cold, hard facts are that a significant chunk of America no longer supports a common culture with the rest. They don't love honesty, integrity, compassion, community, democracy, the Constitution, church-state separation, or the rule of law. How should one feel about such a demographic?

I feel as alienated and repulsed by MAGA culture as I can be and that they are as much enemies of America and Americanism as Putin, the Taliban, Xi, Kim, and the Iranians.

I understand the objections about dehumanizing people, but I see MAGA behavior as closer to a swarm of mindless, destructive, monolithic locust than neighbors or fellow anythings. I not only feel no affinity there, I am repulsed.

On a lighter note, this is Larry David from Curb Your Enthusiasm, a liberal, who found ways to use that hat to his benefit. Look at the number of people that are offended by MAGA in this (trigger alert: f-bombs ... hey, it's HBO), and this is already a few years old:

Click to expand...
So there will remain a good use for MAGA hats for a while.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Argentbear said:
exercising the freedom to chose a presidential candidate makes Iowa less free?
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It's kind of funny considering Harris wasn't ever chosen. She was summarily assigned to the left wingers by party overlords.

What were you saying about Freedom now?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Twilight Hue said:
It's kind of funny considering Harris wasn't ever chosen. She was summarily assigned to the left wingers by party overlords.

What were you saying about Freedom now?
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In a way she was. When it became obvious that Biden did not have the ability to campaign effectively any longer it was too late to go through the regular process. She had already been chosen as a replacement if needed and then that was confirmed by the Democratic Party
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Subduction Zone said:
In a way she was. When it became obvious that Biden did not have the ability to campaign effectively any longer it was too late to go through the regular process. She had already been chosen as a replacement if needed and then that was confirmed by the Democratic Party
Click to expand...
Too bad the voters in the citizens didn't have any say into it. Nobody even liked her first time around, now all of a sudden she's appointed Supreme Queen and an answer to this nation's woes that she created herself with Biden?
 
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