Harsh Truth: If Intelligent Design is Untestable . . .

[Bunyip]

How about Lucy, your ancestor, can you tell me something about her? You can’t? Try Ancestry.com, maybe they have records, it’s only about 3.2 million years ago, they should have records of her and some of the other billions of supposedly missing links.

From 1 A.D. the estimated population was about 200 million to where we at right now at over 7 billion modern people. Just use your daily common sense, if we have over 7 billion modern people today in just over 2,000 years, where are the others from 3.2 million years ago that are supposedly the transitional form or the missing links BURIED? We should be drowning today with evidences from these billions of missing links.

“Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin

They’ve found a few of them like the “Piltdown Man” believed to be 500,000 to 1,000,000 year old missing link.

“The scientific community celebrated Dawson's discovery as the long-awaited "missing link" between ape and man and the confirmation of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution. As the decades passed and new information came to light, however, it became clear that the Piltdown Man was not what he seemed.”

New dating technology based on fluorine testing emerged in 1939, but the Piltdown remains had been locked away after Dawson’s death in 1916 and were not extensively tested until a decade later. At that time, fluorine testing revealed that the remains were a good deal younger than had previously been claimed, closer to 50,000 than 500,000 years old. (Later, carbon-dating technology showed that the skull was actually no more than 600 years old.)

“But that wasn’t all: Upon closer examination of the Piltdown Man, scientists found that the presumed hominid’s skull and jaw actually originated from two different species, a human and an ape (possibly an orangutan). A microscope revealed that the teeth within the jaw had been filed down to make them look more human, and that many of the remains from the Piltdown site appeared to have been stained to match each other as well as the gravel where they were supposedly found. In November 1953, authorities of the British Natural History Museum announced these findings and publicly called Piltdown Man a fraud.”

There goes your theory of billions of years of evolution down the drain with the “Piltdown man” and Darwin

Piltdown Man? Really? Buddy you are dredging up some truly ancient creationist frauds. That awful little con-trick was exposed before your father was even born. Come on - creationist lies from a century ago?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Skull N looks to me like it's the most human. Is this right?

• Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
• (C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
• (D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
• (E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
• (F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
• (G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
• (H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
• (I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
• (J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
• (K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
• (L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
• (M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
• (N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern

Transitional Fossils of Hominid Skulls

 

[JM2C]

One fraud - which was only discovered to be a fraud by the very evolutionary scientists you are insisting are behind it - does note refute the thousands of genuine fossils we have found throughout the geological strata.

”One fraud” Really? How about the Javaman? Hominid, Neanderthal or Homo-Sapiens? Just like the Piltdown man, a hoax by the evolutionist. The Piltdown man: “It consisted of a human skull of medieval age, the 500-year-old lower jaw of anorangutanandchimpanzeefossil teeth.” –Wiki

You guys were supposed to evolve from the Hominid, the Javaman, and the Neanderthals but Homo-Sapiens’ remains were found in the same place where most of these supposedly prehistoric ancestors of yours were found. How do you explain that? Homo-Sapiens were running around at the same TIME with YOUR ancestors, the Hominid, the Javaman, the Neanderthals and of course don’t forget the Piltdown Man? In just over 6,000 years, with history, the population is over 7,000,000,000 people. The projected population by 2050 is around 11 billion. That is 4 billion in just 35 years and you guys are talking millions of years and we see no evidence of these missing links between you and your ancestors.

World Population Clock: 7 Billion People (2015) - Worldometers

 

[JM2C]

Piltdown Man? Really? Buddy you are dredging up some truly ancient creationist frauds. That awful little con-trick was exposed before your father was even born. Come on - creationist lies from a century ago?

That was a fact mate.

 

[JM2C]

I have no problem with Jesus. My problem are with hypocrites and liars, like yourself.


Second, you don't know me, and you weren't there.


I wasn't brought up with Christian background, and I had only started reading the bible (when she gave me a bible when I was 15) because my sister had converted.


The argument is that I was curious when I was teenager, and the pastor whom I befriended in college, made curious about joining his church.


That same curiosity that wanted to join his church, also led me to wanting to find out more that were outside of the church's accepted teaching.


When I asked him about why there are literature outside of the bible's canon, he got angry, and I couldn't understand why. The text in question was the Gospel of Thomas, and I was curious enough to ask him where I could find it and read it. I knew nothing about this gospel, so I was curious. I didn't know anything about heresy, because I did know anything about history of Christianity, and at that time, I didn't know the Gospel of Thomas was linked to Gnosticism. And I didn't know anything about Gnosticism at 19.


At that time, I couldn't why he was upset with me, but I persisted, so he got angry, and told me that I was "lost" and that "you are going to hell". And that when started a shouting match that I didn't understand, and we walk away from each other. Though we have seen each other at the college library, we were no longer speaking to each others.


Had the pastor explain to me about heresy and the Gnosticism, instead of stonewalling me and getting angry with me over my questions, I might have been a baptist, because we have been talking about me joining his church.


Just over a year later, looking for a church to join, were no longer a priority in my life, and stop reading the bible. I haven't touch a bible in 14 years. I never did find any translation to the Gospel of Thomas, during that time, and i actually forgot about this gospel.


It was the year 2000 before I touch the bible again. I was working on my website - Timeless Myths - and have included section on King Arthur. Because of my webpages about King Arthur and his Knights, so my research naturally led me to the Grail legend, and that naturally led me to Joseph of Arimathea. And Arimathea led me back to the bible, about Jesus' death and burial.


During my research at the state library, I did found translation to that gospel, but wasn't interested in it, till some months later. Only then, did I learn about Gnosticism. Before then, I was clueless about the Gnosticism and the content in the gospel of Thomas, or about other codices found itch this gospel at Nag Hammadi, Egypt.


So do I blame the pastor? Yes, I do. But I am also glad that I didn't join his church, because they are too conservative and backward for my taste.


Now you know what I argue about and why I didn't join any church. And you being a ******* to think I was to blame, when you don't know what happened.


There are lots of good Christians who I have befriended over the years, but my brief experience with you, clearly showed that you are not one of them - good Christian, because you are hypocrite.

What is this AAA meeting. You are in a wrong thread. Please if you have anything to say about your past life I suggest you start a new thread about it. I'm really not interested.

 

[JM2C]

Which god that many say man has created are you talking about ?

The God of the bible. The ONE who created the Heavens the earth. The ONE who created me. I DID NOT COME FROM A MONKEY!

THE MONKEY SPEAKS HIS MIND

Three monkeys sat in a coconut tree
Discussing things as they are said to be.
One said to the other,"Listen here, you two.
I just heard a rumor that CAN'T be true."

"That man descended from our noble race!
The very idea is a big disgrace.
No monkey ever cheated his wife,
Starved her baby, and ruined her life."

Yeah.
The monkey speaks his mind!

"You'll never see a mother monk
Leave her child with others to bunk.
Passing him off from one to the other,
Till the poor child sca'cely knows his mother."

Yeah.
The monkey speaks his mind!

"And here's another thing you'll never see -
A monkey build a fence around a coconut tree.
Letting good coconuts go to waste
While forbidding all others to come and taste.
Why, if I built a fence around a tree,
Starvation would force you to steal from me."

Yeah.
The monkey speaks his mind!

"And here's one more thing a monkey won't do -
Go out at night and get on a stew.
Or use a gun, or club, or knife
To take another monkey's life.
Yes, man descended, the worthless bum.
But brothers, from us HE DID NOT COME."

Yeah.
The monkey speaks his mind!

~ Author Unknown ~

 

[JM2C]

Nothing "started clocking or decaying", radioactive decay is a result of the fundamental nature of matter itself and the only things that can alter those decay rates (and only some types of decay in any case) involve forces never found on our planet.

How do you calculate the lead from uranium if nothing is decaying? Isn’t that how evolutionist got their millions or billions of years dating rocks?

Its really not worth anyone's effort trying to explain the mechanics to you as you will either deny the facts or ignore them and keep spouting lies you copy from your creationist websites.

You’re right but I did not deny any of that from the beginning, that all my info came from the internet. Actually I read them from the creationist website before posting them.

 

[jonathan180iq]

”One fraud” Really? How about the Javaman? Hominid, Neanderthal or Homo-Sapiens? Just like the Piltdown man, a hoax by the evolutionist.

?

You're saying that Hominids, Neanderthals and Homo-Sapiens are evolutionary frauds?
No one thinks the Piltdown man is anything more than a pile of 500 year old bones. This has been known for a very long time. If you want to attempt to refute evolutionary science, you need to use something that is actually considered part of accepted evolutionary science...

The Piltdown man: “It consisted of a human skull of medieval age, the 500-year-old lower jaw of anorangutanandchimpanzeefossil teeth.” –Wiki

Everyone knows this.

You guys were supposed to evolve from the Hominid, the Javaman, and the Neanderthals but Homo-Sapiens’ remains were found in the same place where most of these supposedly prehistoric ancestors of yours were found. How do you explain that?

First of all, you aren't using the terms properly. And secondly, no one says that we evolved from the Neanderthals. In fact, there was plenty of cross-breeding between Homo-sapien and Neanderthal populations, which is why your genetic make-up consists of anywhere between 2-5% Neandethal DNA, depending on your direct ancestry.

And hominids are a family of species, not an individual species... Hominids include all great apes. You're a hominid now. You evolved from previous hominids yes. But that doesn't change the fact that you're still a hominid.

In just over 6,000 years, with history, the population is over 7,000,000,000 people. The projected population by 2050 is around 11 billion. That is 4 billion in just 35 years and you guys are talking millions of years and we see no evidence of these missing links between you and your ancestors

We've already discussed this. Populations grows exponentially now thanks to the industrial and technological revolutions.
The only way that your argument would work is if you studied population growth in prior years. You can't take future growth numbers and apply them to previous centuries because that's not how math works...

Human Populations

Between 0 AD and 1,000 AD the world's population had only grown by a few million people... That's 1,000 years. Your math doesn't even work for known time periods, and you think it somehow applies to prehistory?

 

[JM2C]

When you guys jumping at me all at the same time, it really gives me strength to answer more of your delusional theories. You know that evolution is a kind of religion, an act of philosophical faith. I forgot who said that. Darwin or Huxley?

 

[jonathan180iq]

You entered into a conversation that was already 40 pages long and had several different participants. When someone makes an outlandish or ignorant claim, it's pretty much par for the course for others here to call them on it.

You aren't being ganged up on. As soon as you make a valid argument, and stop claiming with certainty that you know anything at all about Evolutionary theory, people will address those appropriately.
You just keep making false claims or unsubstantiated assertions and people highlight them.

Generally, people are more interested in legitimate debate. But when this is all there is, then this is what's going to be addressed.

 

[jonathan180iq]

You’re right but I did not deny any of that from the beginning, that all my info came from the internet. Actually I read them from the creationist website before posting them.

If this is a serious reply, then don't you think it a bit more prudent of you to gather your arguments from more credible sources? Certainly you see the bias that a creationist website would have towards any counter-arguments, right? I mean apologetics, by definition, are concerned with defending a position that is already assumed to be true.

Like I asked JJD many times before, would it be wise of me to get all of my information on Christianity from anti-Christian sources and then attempt to debate you using my biased and limited knowledge?
That's exactly what you're doing here - attempting to debate evolutionary science and biology using purely theological sources...

Truth be told, there are some legitimate arguments that you guys could make against evolutionary theory but you're too ignorant on the topic to even know what those are, which is why, I assume, you're reduced to using these century-old, well-refuted, creationists attacks. They only serve to make you look foolish.

 

[JM2C]

You're saying that Hominids, Neanderthals and Homo-Sapiens are evolutionary frauds?
No one thinks the Piltdown man is anything more than a pile of 500 year old bones. This has been known for a very long time.

Until it was discovered that is was nothing but a fraud, of course. What happen if it was not discovered? You probably still be teaching it by now. Have you ever thought of that?

If you want to attempt to refute evolutionary science, you need to use something that is actually considered part of accepted evolutionary science...

Are you kidding me? You can’t even explain the millions of years, on how you got that millions, if not billions, of your delusional evolutionary theory.

JM2C said:↑

The Piltdown man: “It consisted of a human skull of medieval age, the 500-year-old lower jaw of anorangutanandchimpanzeefossil teeth.” –Wiki

Everyone knows this.

No, not everyone knows this. The reason for this is to let others know, those who don’t know this and just going along with your lies without searching that evolutionists were making frauds like this since the beginning. You don’t have any concrete evidence to prove your delusional evolutionary theory and that was the reason why you guys making frauds like this since the beginning. People should know this.

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[JM2C]

JM2C said:↑

You guys were supposed to evolve from the Hominid, the Javaman, and the Neanderthals but Homo-Sapiens’ remains were found in the same place where most of these supposedly prehistoric ancestors of yours were found. How do you explain that?

First of all, you aren't using the terms properly.

And secondly, no one says that we evolved from the Neanderthals. In fact, there was plenty of cross-breeding between Homo-sapien and Neanderthal populations, which is why your genetic make-up consists of anywhere between 2-5% Neandethal DNA, depending on your direct ancestry.

Really? What is the proper chronology? Hominid, and then the Javaman, thought to be the missing link, and the Neanderthals, the supposedly cousins of Homo-Sapiens? You did not answer why Homo-Sapiens remains were found in the same strata with your prehistoric ancestors. Were they roaming the earth together at the same time? Then who evolved from whom? Hit the wall again, huh?

 

[JM2C]

And hominids are a family of species, not an individual species... Hominids include all great apes. You're a hominid now. You evolved from previous hominids yes. But that doesn't change the fact that you're still a hominid.

Sir, I did not come from Apes.

GE 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

RO 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
RO 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
RO 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
RO 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
RO 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That was a fact mate.

Not even close.

 

[JM2C]

Not even close.

What is not even close?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not even close.

What you said was not a fact. It was not even close to a fact.

 

[JM2C]

You entered into a conversation that was already 40 pages long and had several different participants. When someone makes an outlandish or ignorant claim, it's pretty much par for the course for others here to call them on it.

You aren't being ganged up on. As soon as you make a valid argument, and stop claiming with certainty that you know anything at all about Evolutionary theory, people will address those appropriately.
You just keep making false claims or unsubstantiated assertions and people highlight them.

Generally, people are more interested in legitimate debate. But when this is all there is, then this is what's going to be addressed.

I'm just responding to your comments and if you don't like it you can ignore and that would be the end of it.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Until it was discovered that is was nothing but a fraud, of course. What happen if it was not discovered? You probably still be teaching it by now. Have you ever thought of that?

And when was it discovered, man? And who figured it out and threw it out completely?

It was fully exposed in 1953. But even prior to that, it was not taken seriously as part of the human evolutionary story.
And it was science that uncovered the fraud and science that rejected it.

It's an unimportant footnote and not something worthy of debate except by those who don't understand what they are talking about.

Are you kidding me? You can’t even explain the millions of years, on how you got that millions, if not billions, of your delusional evolutionary theory.

Geology - What is geology
Archaeology - What is Archaeology
Paleontology - What is Paleontology?
Radiometric Dating - Evolution 101: Molecular Clocks

Those are some strong words you're using considering you've got nothing to substantiate your alternative claim aside from theology...

No, not everyone knows this. The reason for this is to let others know, those who don’t know this and just going along with your lies without searching that evolutionists were making frauds like this since the beginning. You don’t have any concrete evidence to prove your delusional evolutionary theory and that was the reason why you guys making frauds like this since the beginning. People should know this.

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Can you please cite for me one person on this forum, or in the greater public at large, who claims that Piltdown man is the basis for human evolutionary understandings? Can you find me one textbook which mentions it as anything other than a fraud or a hoax? Can you cite anything at all to show me how "not everyone knows" that the Piltdown Man is a laughable joke?

The only people who still talk about the Piltdown Man are found in creationist circles, and they are ignorant of the very thing they are attempting to discuss.

You need to educate yourself more on this topic before you try and tackle it.

 

[JM2C]

What you said was not a fact. It was not even close to a fact.

Are we still talking about the Piltdown man?